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Improving bumper pull towing

Otto M@n

Otto M@n

Red Skull Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Member Number
4654
Messages
18
TL;DR - Work n Play toy hauler with Equilizer WD hitch has the shittest ride quality on earth.

I have a very nice, paid for, 2016 Work n Play toy hauler that is perfect for my needs. No RV is ever truly perfect, but damn if this one isn't just about as good as it gets. Everything except...the ride quality. Holy fucking shit balls. From my old truck (04 Ram 2500), to my new one (16 Ram 2500), using the WD hitch, it's just shit. I did a trip with a buddies 2018 Duramax 3500 SRW, and it was a lot better. That said - his WD bars are essentially for looks and there's hardly any load on them, not how mine is set up.

The toy hauler is definitely super heavy on tongue weight for its size (26' box, 10,500 GVWR, 1,400lb empty tongue weight and about the same loaded up). Average curb weight for a weekend is probably around 8500-9000lb.

My '16 with rear coils squats less than my old '04 did, but I do have them set up properly, or so as outlined in the manual (fender measurement is 1/2 of unloaded height and loaded height with no WD bars on it). I purchased a Shocker (lol) air bag hitch for my setup and it's helped tremendously, but it is very picky on PSI range and I'm still sorting that out. But it has helped a ton. Last year when I serviced the axles, I put new Dexter EZ flex hangers on to replace the OEM ones and the rubber damper has also made a very noticeable increase in ride quality.

I've added yellow Sumo Springs to the truck to help with sag, as an attempt to try and put less weight on the bars, and hopefully, reduce that "direct connection" the tight WD bars create. That works fairly well, but they contact the axle tube with no load on the truck and make the unloaded towing ride noticeably shitter over stock. I trimmed them down a bit, leaving about a 1" gap before they make contact with the axle (unloaded) and that seems to be a decent compromise.

I was looking at either replacing the trimmed yellow springs with black ones (3,000lb capacity yellow, 1,500lb black) and giving that a go. OR, going with a wireless air bag setup. I love the idea of zero maintence with the sumo springs. The idea of having an remotely adjustable (via phone app) air bag setup definitely sounds pretty slick, but not sure about maintenance? And freezing concerns in the winter at all? It'd be close to a grand after it's all said and done, but I could run less weight on the bars with additional support from adjustable air bags. One thing the trailer does NOT have an issue with - sway. The heavy tongue weight makes this trailer comfortable to set the cruise at 80MPH on. Point and shoot. Passing 18 wheelers don't even suck me into them.

In a perfect world, quite frankly I'd sell the fucking trailer and go back to a gooseneck and be done with it. But, as crazy as truck/RV prices are, I have what I have, and I'm not changing that. Is it normal to have a shit ride quality with the Equilizer brand? What other options do I have?
 
No RAM experience but I have plenty of heavy toy hauler experience.

I had the 14k equalizer hitch and like you it rode like shit IMO. I also could never get the correct weight transfer of 1400 lbs from the trailer to the front, not sure if that was a function of the tow vehicle or the hitch.
I use a modified Hensley Arrow now with crank adjustable weight bars and that is the cats ass. Instantly adjustable tension no matter the tongue weight. If you had a conventional barred hitch you could swap to the straptek system and have the same results but it won't work with the Equalizers mounts and would defeat the purpose of the EQ.
I won't bad mouth air bags but they aren't for me. Too much added shit.

Torklift stable loads is the hotness. I am been running DIY versions of these using tree felling wedges and some square tube for the uppers.
No added failure points, fully selectable ride, as in engage them when towing and quickly disengage when not.
1645136701820.png

I am going to build a set of these to bolt in, $400+ is steep too me for some laser cut plates.
 
This is the upper, 2" 1/4" wall tube I cut a 1/2" strip out of the middle to shorten them.
I don't like this design too much as it is much more difficult to remove/install (not hard) and is very rough empty as that gap is not far enough to keep from hitting them unloaded.
I am going to come up with some sort of swing in/out setup for this too.
I need all this for the SXS/rack in the bed + the tongue weight of the 13,000 lb RV.
1645137447441.png

1645137686012.png
 
This where I started honing my hauling too big of shit with too little of truck skills.
Pic taken south of Lampasas with a blown up torque converter....

1645137860277.png
 
How is the ride shitty? Is it bucking like the rear is bottomed out, or that slow waller when you hit a dip?

I've only pulled a travel trailer like twice and none were very heavy. But I have pulled a lot of various bumper pulls, up to probably 16-18k never had a WD hitch and never really had one ride super shitty unless it was waaay too much tounge wieght and even then, it wasn't that bad.

Have you tried it without the WD hitch?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
How is the ride shitty? Is it bucking like the rear is bottomed out, or that slow waller when you hit a dip?

I've only pulled a travel trailer like twice and none were very heavy. But I have pulled a lot of various bumper pulls, up to probably 16-18k never had a WD hitch and never really had one ride super shitty unless it was waaay too much tounge wieght and even then, it wasn't that bad.

Have you tried it without the WD hitch?
Click to expand...
2000 lb of tongue weight is different than a "heavy" utility trailer.


It would be very easy to just remove the bars on a EQ hitch, two pin.
 
CarterKraft said:
2000 lb of tongue weight is different than a "heavy" utility trailer.


It would be very easy to just remove the bars on a EQ hitch, two pin.
Click to expand...

I've had trailers heavy enough to squat a 1 ton that laughs at 4k in the bed. Definitely pulled shit with way than 2k lbs on the ball.

I just don't know what it is about toy haulers that seem to be a pain to pull.
 
Trailer tires? You didn't mention. Factory/chinese trailer tires can be out of round and do a weird surge kind of thing even when they look good. A heavier truck may not be effected as much.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I've had trailers heavy enough to squat a 1 ton that laughs at 4k in the bed. Definitely pulled shit with way than 2k lbs on the ball.

I just don't know what it is about toy haulers that seem to be a pain to pull.
Click to expand...
Not really sure.
 
Otto M@n said:
In a perfect world, quite frankly I'd sell the fucking trailer and go back to a gooseneck and be done with it. But, as crazy as truck/RV prices are, I have what I have, and I'm not changing that. Is it normal to have a shit ride quality with the Equilizer brand? What other options do I have?
Click to expand...
You can convert that trailer to a goose. Trailer big beams on the front. Would keep it short too.
 
CarterKraft said:
No RAM experience but I have plenty of heavy toy hauler experience.

I had the 14k equalizer hitch and like you it rode like shit IMO. I also could never get the correct weight transfer of 1400 lbs from the trailer to the front, not sure if that was a function of the tow vehicle or the hitch.
I use a modified Hensley Arrow now with crank adjustable weight bars and that is the cats ass. Instantly adjustable tension no matter the tongue weight. If you had a conventional barred hitch you could swap to the straptek system and have the same results but it won't work with the Equalizers mounts and would defeat the purpose of the EQ.
I won't bad mouth air bags but they aren't for me. Too much added shit.

Torklift stable loads is the hotness. I am been running DIY versions of these using tree felling wedges and some square tube for the uppers.
No added failure points, fully selectable ride, as in engage them when towing and quickly disengage when not.

I am going to build a set of these to bolt in, $400+ is steep too me for some laser cut plates.
Click to expand...
And since my reading comprehension sucks I missed the part about COILs...

Random thought a buddy had the same truck and his wife couldn't ride in it to pull his TT due to porpusing making her sick.
Not sure if related or not.

So does anyone convert those coil trucks to true air ride with mechanical load leveling etc?

I think I'd try no WD at all to see if it improves.
 
Here's a 1 min clip of the shocker hitch from their YT page. Like I said, it works for sure, but it is sensitive to air bag PSI, and I always seem to be chasing my tail because the tongue weight is often never the same. Too little PSI = bouncing off the bump stops. Too much = it's not absorbing the bumps.



It is also a bit of a pain in the ass to fill and adjust. Since the bag is so small, even a quick hit of the shrader valve with your finger nail can bump doing 5-10PSI. You have to be really careful making adjustments.
 
CarterKraft said:
And since my reading comprehension sucks I missed the part about COILs...

Random thought a buddy had the same truck and his wife couldn't ride in it to pull his TT due to porpusing making her sick.
Not sure if related or not.

So does anyone convert those coil trucks to true air ride with mechanical load leveling etc?

I think I'd try no WD at all to see if it improves.
Click to expand...

Towing it (locally, no high way trips) with no WD is my next step for sure. But I am all but confident the ride quality would be just fine without the bars hooked up.
 
CarterKraft said:
So does anyone convert those coil trucks to true air ride with mechanical load leveling etc?
Click to expand...
There is a factory air ride option that replaces the coils with bags. I test drove one a few years ago, empty it definitely rode better than the coil trucks.

I have a 2015 Dodge 2500 with the rear coils. Apples to oranges, but with the stock suspension it handled the pin weight of my 5th wheel just fine, same with my flatbed and K5 (~8000 lbs). After putting softer rear coils in, the 5th wheel had it almost touching the factory bump stops at rest, and it rode like crap on the test drive. I bought the Timbren bump stops, and use those now when towing (in place of the factory ones). They do hurt the ride empty, they are about 1" away from contact. I swap them out when I won't be towing for a while, kind of a pain but it takes about 5 minutes. I'm happy with them. I've never used a weight distribution setup, but the biggest bumper pull trailers I've pulled with it for any distance are the 8k flatbed, and my neighbors front-load toyhauler (probably 8-9k total).

Pete
 
TrailTamer said:
Saying the ride quality is shit without sharing on how it’s shitty is not helpful.

Is it bucking or bouncing? Two very different things.
Click to expand...
this.

could be simple as adding shocks to the trailer. Made a huge difference for my trailer.
 
TrailTamer said:
Saying the ride quality is shit without sharing on how it’s shitty is not helpful.

Is it bucking or bouncing? Two very different things.
Click to expand...

Honestly it's really hard to narrow it down, because it rides like such shit it's overwhelming :lmao:

It's not porpoising, but if I had to describe it, it would be more like bucking than bouncing. I believe all of the harshness of the ride quality is coming from the trailer wheels and since the WD bars are setup tight, it directly pushes it into the cab of the truck, hence why I found the shocker hitch to be a definite increase of ride quality.

Ride quality improved overall with the addition of the Sumo Springs on the rear, especially over rough/shitty parts on the highway. I believe the rear suspension didn't have enough spring to compensate for the heavy tongue weight. I also noticed an increase in stabliity of the truck after adding them, less chassis roll on tight highway onramps/exits.

When we pulled my trailer with my buddies 2018 Duramax 3500 SRW, his bars were not set very tight at all (you can almost slide the bars on the hooks without having to re-run the jack up after connecting). I did notice my trailer (shorter and a lower GVWR than his toy hauler) caused his truck to ride on his over load springs hooked up - and his toy hauler does not. With his bars being looser than mine, can confirm that his truck did ride a hell of a lot smoother than mine.

Homer Simpson logic says to not run a WD hitch...but doesn't really do anything to help prevent trailer sway. :homer:
 
The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to get air bags to replace the sumo springs. This will allow me to ensure my truck doesn't have the Carolina Squat going on without the bars set up super tight and just calling it a day. But I'm guessing it'll take 40-50PSI in the bags to achieve that ride height...now wondering how badly that would cause it to ride. :homer::laughing::laughing:
 
Well running w/o the wd is free, so I'd start there.

Do you have a scale you can play with? Like empty truck wieght, F&r, then just truck with trailer hooked up, F&r, and trailer axle weight. Then with wd.

Kinda a pain, but might help.

If I can tow a dodge 12v truck on a heavy steel 22' deck over with an F150 drama free. You should be able to tow that trailer no problem.

My buddy tows a trailer that sounds similar to yours with his lifted F150 also.
 
Otto M@n said:
The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to get air bags to replace the sumo springs. This will allow me to ensure my truck doesn't have the Carolina Squat going on without the bars set up super tight and just calling it a day. But I'm guessing it'll take 40-50PSI in the bags to achieve that ride height...now wondering how badly that would cause it to ride. :homer::laughing::laughing:
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest that also.

Your situation reminds me of pulling a loaded 28' gooseneck with a 2011 F250 at my old work. It was stationary machines, so no pulling it forward or back" as soon as I left the shop it was just beating me up. Reminded me of the kids who cut the coils in half on their Hondas and can feel a dime laying in the road. :laughing:

It wasn't squatted, so I didn't think to add air to the bags. But since it had the full remote control. I bumped it up from 15 to 25, a little better, 35 little better, 45 little better, ect. I think I ended up at 65 psi and it rode perfectly for the 6 or so hour trip.

Had it not been in cab, I would have never thought to add air. Weird too because that truck had a 2 leaf pack just like our F150, before the bags, an empty trailer would squat it.
 
Consider loading your buggy or toy with the engine in the back. The water tanks / waste tanks and kitchen in most BP toy haulers provide plenty of tongue weight, perhaps just loading your cargo differently would make an improvement.
 
Your friend’s Duramax pulled it fine and smooth, ruling out the trailer issue.

The only difference was that you make your WD very tight, is that right?

Can’t you loosen it a bit and go for a test drive?

What WD hitch is it? Not all are the same. The ones for to redistribute more tongue weight have higher spring rate.
 
I had my own rough riding problems I tried to fix for few years. :lmao:

It turned out my tow rig’s tires weren’t round! Tons of runouts. New tires solved the rough riding immediately.

I thought I’d share about this, as it can be overlooked, like I did.
 
rockyota83 said:
which should be the very first thing you address if possible
Click to expand...

Every toy hauler I've ever seen loaded was pretty much 1 way other nothing. If it's a SxS, unless he has a ton of shit in the bed they're pretty balanced. Simple mind folk always assume the engine is the only thing that wieghs anything. :laughing:

TrailTamer said:
I had my own rough riding problems I tried to fix for few years. :lmao:

It turned out my tow rig’s tires weren’t round! Tons of runouts. New tires solved the rough riding immediately.

I thought I’d share about this, as it can be overlooked, like I did.
Click to expand...

Well why would you put interco tires on a tow rig :flipoff2:
 
I got away from the wheeling world and into road racing motorcycles. I don't have any decent interior pics on my phone, but trust me - first thing I did was push back all the heavy cargo (bikes, rolling tool cart, etc) as far back as I possibly could. PERSONALLY...I think Forest River fucked up axle placement on this chassis. I think they should have been about 12" more forward than they are. I make it a point to try and keep the gray and black tanks as empty as possible as they sit forward. Fresh water tank is kinda a moot point as it's directly over the axles.

This setup pic is before I got the shocker hitch, with the yellow sumo springs installed. Like I said before - tows great, handles great, and 1 finger driving with the cruise set at 80 all day. It just beats you to fucking death.

IMG_2681.jpg
 
Otto M@n said:
Like I said before - tows great, handles great, and 1 finger driving with the cruise set at 80 all day. It just beats you to fucking death.
Click to expand...

I find this statement very confusing.

what wheelbase was your friends duramax? If he had a CCLB, I wouldn't rule out wheelbase making a difference in ride quality.

second the ask for details on the specific WD hitch specs on each vehicle.
 
Does the truck have a leveling kit installed? If it does remove it.

Seen leveling kits installed, then when towing trailers the springs compress and the nose points at the sky. To counteract this they install air bags and fight with level and ride.

Don't know if that helps, I tow with a chevy and the more tongue weight I add the better it rides and have never in my life ever used a weight distribution system.
 
Odd, because normally travel trailers seem to be disigned to have like 3% tongue wieght so you can tow a 40' with your Tahoe. :homer:

You could add weight back there, but rough guess, you have to add 400 lbs to get 100 lbs off the ball.

Do you keep all your tanks full? Some toy haulers have huge tanks and can hold damn near 1k lbs of fresh water.
 
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