Remember how the entire 4x4 community would fucking riot any time Jeep had an IFS concept vehicle? How we were all afraid that they were giving in and killing the SFA? LOL @ wanting to rip them out to install IFS now.
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Ifs 101
- Thread starter patooyee
- Start date
I've done the same search and had the same issues. I think there are two reasons: 1, there's just very few companies making them. 2, they're just really short, essentially standard axles shafts.
They run steering boxes and custom UFO rack/swingsets. The ram shaft is fixed to the chassis, and the ram body moves. I can’t find pics of the anti rotation device. But these have more pounds of steering force than a Howe rack for sure. I believe are just as fast as a Howe rack and don’t get torn off the car.
michael.gonzalez
Banned
That is a very neat steering system! The body moves while the shaft is attached to the body. Makes total sense!
I still don’t trust Fiat to get IFS done that we would like. I’m patiently waiting to lay eyes on a new Bronco to see if they did us any justice. The Raptor isn’t to bad but it’s still not what we all seem to be after here.
Very slick steering setup! Is the box itself attached to the ram body with a "drag link"?
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AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Understandable, but still surprising. I mean with everything RCV offers, do they not make inner shafts?
What's crazy, I just stumbled across Dutchman's option. From them you can get a bare aluminum IFS housing plus both 35 spline stubs for $1,195, while just the two 35 spline currie shafts end up being $1090.
https://dutchmanaxles.com/irs-housing-alloy-axle-package-cv-style.html
Rcv will make those shafts. I specifically asked them the other day about it. They just don't have a specific name because they're just really short, plain axle shafts as far as I can tell. They're just semi float axle shafts.
I'm very closely eyeballing that dutchman housing and shafts. Mainly because I feel like it's not a rip-off. I assume if I fabbed my own housing I'd be into custom shafts for at least 600. Plus 300 or so for a cheap steel housing to butcher. (Or waste life at a jy wrenching in the gravel.) Plus tons of time machining bearing blocks and fabbing those. The dutchman option almost seems like a no brainier at that point.
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Wilson
Newb
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- Nov 21, 2020
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thank you for finding and posting that. I knew that I had seen it before, but am no longer on the SM sites.
it solves another problem that all the other solutions out there fail to address as well, which is actually the beauty behind it.
And that is?
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
See that I'm not sure is the case. All load bearing semifloat shafts seem to be 1541H material, rarely (never?) 4340 from what I've seen. Then they seem to have some custom machined ball reliefs for high angle applications, and due to the depth of that relief I'm not even sure the same sized blanks could be used? But possibly though, this is all stuff I'm trying to figure out haha.
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
UFO has a different approach that has always been fun to see.
I don't know if anyone has said why this is so cool. By making the cylinder into the linear load bearing device, it allows for: The wear surfaces are sealed and oiled. The cylinder does not have to be externally attached to the rack which eliminates failure of connections. The cylinder can be larger in side with a smaller footprint. The overall width can be made narrower. Most importantly it looks cool!
Maybe not then? I admit I know little about semi-float applications. The Currie ones linked above just generically say "934 CV Axle for F9 Independent Units," so apparently Currie doesn't know the exact name either. LOL.
How many companies are making F9 IFS housings? 3 or 4? There's one on eBay that is even more expensive than Currie. Doesn't seem like a high-volume item as of now.
Generic pic of axle shaft blank found via DuckDuckGo:
I feel like, if you got a hold of the blank before that center pilot journal was machined, the flange would be thick enough to make the ball reliefs in your pic.
1541H is used in aftermarket shafts? (Again, I'm an idiot when it comes to semi-float tech.) If so, perhaps there is some feature about the semi-float blanks that prevents them from being used for the CV axle shafts. So maybe the choice of 4340 isn't so much what is best, but rather what they have blanks capable of making. Based on the volume of F9 IFS housings that I suspect is currently moving I highly doubt companies are having custom blanks made for them.
Stephen
HMFIC@ORD
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newbs serch "steering for go fast rigs" on the old board and the true genius here will shine through.
Does anything even show up now?
Weasel
Red Skull Member
that's cool, took my brain a minute to trace back the circuit on how that was working. I like that it doesn't have stupid 1/2" bolts holding on to a bulkhead.
Yes. It has a short drag link from the pitman arm to the top double shear bracket on the ram. The bracket in the middle of the ram is for anti rotation so it doesn’t wobble.
Tech Tim
Your AD Here....
Thanks for posting that up, Joe has worked hard thinking outside the norm. We really like his thinking.
The common term in IFS lingo would be "inner stub shafts". But there isn't a standard. It all depends on what you are using for the center section, the retaining bearing and desired flange offset. We used the Spidertrax housings and inner stubs designing both of Scherer's and Farravanti's IFS' and the Currie F9 housing and stubs in Mike Klensin's Crossed Up Custom's IFS car.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Great details, thanks for that! And interesting to note there isn't much of a standard. You bring up another item that I was curious about - side bearings. I've seen a couple talk about tapered rollers, and a couple talk about (sealed?) single row ball bearings. Are they basically semifloat wheel bearings as Patooyee suggested, or more specialized? It doesn't seem like a real failure point, so maybe they just used what's common but I'll be curious to find out
They would use some sort of locking plate like what semi float shafts use to hold them in place. Bearing would be just a light press fit like a standard semi float axle bearing.
I wouldn't expect that there is much load on the stubs or bearings in an IFS setup so it probably doesn't have to be all that robust to get the job done even in a U4 application
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The plate holds the bearing in it's bore but I don't think holds the shaft in the bearing? I guess the press fit is enough then. Not like you can use c-clips in a drop-out third without a removeable dif cover.
I'd say the stub is a press fit to the bearing like a semi float shaft. Its not going to see any side or in/out loads like a semi float axle shaft will in a rear axle so it probably only needs to be a slight press fit to hold everything in place..
In my mind it shouldn't be any different than the way a semi float 9" rear axle is held together.
In my mind it shouldn't be any different than the way a semi float 9" rear axle is held together.
And....... I can’t stop drooling on that double ended ram rack setup. Its a simple concept once you take a good look at it, yet absolutely fucking brilliant all at the same time. 
Man, I wish @joefab would grace us with his presence here. I used to love reading about his ideas and builds over on the other board. Dude is definitely an outside the box thinker when it comes to building U4 cars.
Man, I wish @joefab would grace us with his presence here. I used to love reading about his ideas and builds over on the other board. Dude is definitely an outside the box thinker when it comes to building U4 cars.
I’ve changed thirds in a couple of Healys cars that use the Spidertrax housings and 40 spline stubs. I’m pretty sure those stub shafts just have a pressed on bearing. The 3 bolt plate holds the bearing into the pocket just like a semi float rear. I didn’t ask him but I did look at it when I had the stubs in my hands.
Wilson
Newb
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absent of the usual (for semi float) retaining collar? It seems/ looks like that would be something to try and ditch, for minimal width.
You still need to fit a seal in there somewhere so I don't think the collar not being there would have any effect on making it narrower.
Anybody running a Proformance IFS center section in a U4 car? From what I have seen and read about them they are about the narrowist diff on the planet. No idea about strength though.......
https://www.proformance.com.au/ifs-irs-diff
They now make them with D80 sized gears and inboard brakes are an option.
https://www.proformance.com.au/ifs-irs-diff
They now make them with D80 sized gears and inboard brakes are an option.