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How loud is it going to be?

ArTi54N said:
just want to toss something out there.. remember the movie "Core".., where towards the end they realized one big explosion would not be enough to fix the problem.. they had to set off a series of explosions spread out.. to get the magna moving correct or something.. you would of had to seen the movie to understand.. and it was not a popular movie.. hahaha..

well, what if sound worked the same way? instead of playing 12 woofers all at once, what if they hit at different times.. sorta pushing the SPL to where it would get larger and larger..

I understand in principle how people have been using computer-like devices, to do something similar.. with playing their mids and highs at seperate times than the bass, etc.. but does that movie magic work in the same way with sound?

back in the day, people had all the woofers firing at the same time.. was that so wrong?
Click to expand...

Time/phase alignment is a thing and can be used to focus audio without moving the sources. See things like EAW Anya for wideband focusing. The other big thing in pro audio is running cardioid sub arrays to be able to steer bass away from stages and into the audience. Fun stuff.


I did car audio back in the days when RE were the cool shit. Still have a couple RE HC 15"ers and RE RE 10's down in the basement. Heck, even the pair of RE RE 10's on 240rms was enough to crack 140db in a custom designed DCTV (dual chamber, tri-vented, allowed for two tuning frequencies) box I built. With a single HC on 1500rms we were just a hair below 150db.
 
ProjectTwin said:
I use Term-Pro for enclosure design. The program helps with enclosure volume, but most times I end up doing designs by hand as well due to the shape the enclosure has to be.

Here's a screenshot of an enclosure I designed and built during an all-nighter last Saturday when a guy showed up for tuning so he could compete last Sunday.

The blue/cyan line is SPL output in an anechoic environment. Cabin gain will boost frequencies below about 40 Hz. (See 2nd p

ic)

Anechoic SPL output scale is on the right.

The yellow you see is power handling.

Purple/magenta is cone excursion.

Green is relative response


You can see on the left that this enclosure is 2.25ft^3 tuned to 22 Hz.




This is cabin gain of various vehicles. You can see how the low frequencies are "boosted" by standing waves in the cabin.

This is called the Schroeder frequency. It's the point where sound waves below that freq are standing waves that build up vs frequencies above it that reflect.
Click to expand...

Is this strictly for sealed enclosures?

Do you build any ported setups? That would involve volume, port sizing and port length, correct?
 
not2hye said:
Is this strictly for sealed enclosures?

Do you build any ported setups? That would involve volume, port sizing and port length, correct?
Click to expand...

That's a ported enclosure in the first image. :homer:

Yes, port area/length/volume are all a factor.
 
Stupid question, is win isd capable of any decent design? That was the only thing I found to use last time I built one.... In 2006.


I can't comprehend daily driving a 140+ db system hard enough to beat a car apart. I thought my 10's at 135db were plenty, and I rarely cranked it.
 
I used to use win isd...that and a dumbed down enclousure calculater for odd sizes and port calcs. It is good for plotting and seeing what adjustments do
 
basically it is much easier to tune a ported box.. I've seen some good friends have different interchangeable ports.. like one for SPL.. one for Port Wars, and one for most music.. they actually got the idea off my cousin Everette, who I mentioned in one of these threads earlier.. his most popular set up, was a single 10 inch Digital Design woofer, with massive power.. and the box was great.. robotic moving parts, like the amp racks, etc.. he had an SPL record, and a Port War record.. I've had dozens of systems, but none sounded as great as his..
 
Chevy_man said:
Stupid question, is win isd capable of any decent design? That was the only thing I found to use last time I built one.... In 2006.


I can't comprehend daily driving a 140+ db system hard enough to beat a car apart. I thought my 10's at 135db were plenty, and I rarely cranked it.
Click to expand...

I have win isd and horn resp. Don't use them because I've used Term-Pro for so long and I'm used to it.

The thing about loud cars is they don't have to be loud all the time. Same with driving a high hp car. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it all the time.
 
45acp said:
I was really into car audio through most of the 90's, got meh with it for whatever reason. I can't comprehend 2 12's pushing 148dB. :eek: "that's like 8 Orion Extreme 15's and 4 MTX2300's" :laughing:
Click to expand...

:lmao::lmao:

Takes me back. My favorite setup was a pair of xtr 15s, pair of 10s and poor MTX4160.....in an 88 Integra hatch. :laughing::laughing:
 
Lurker said:
:lmao::lmao:

Takes me back. My favorite setup was a pair of xtr 15s, pair of 10s and poor MTX4160.....in an 88 Integra hatch. :laughing::laughing:
Click to expand...

did you have the 15s and the 10s at the same time..

I've seen sponsored vehicles mix woofers many times through the years, and they were usually told it was NOT gonna sound good.. and they eventually agreed.. Ive seen it said many times in print too.. dont mix woofer sizes.. it wont sound right..

if you insist on some 8s in the doors, or something similiar, just adjust your crossovers or whatever, so the 8s are not competing with the larger woofers..

please, dont just do it to spite.. ask around..
 
45acp said:
I have a mint mtx 2300 and 4160 sitting in my shop with matching crossover. Circa 1996, it all looks new. :laughing:
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No problem there, I just swapped out the 1998 Kenwood excelon deck and sub amp a couple weeks ago. The matching 4 channel amp is still running the coaxes until that all gets replaced too. : laughing:
 
yeah I have a few decks in my main closet.. they were great in the 90s.. I've been tempted to find someone, to install any of them into my dad's truck.. cuz his system sux and we usually take his truck between here and the ranch (3 1/2 hrs of driving time).. I have some nice boston acoustic seperates and plates that I could get someone to put in his truck too.. I just don't want to do it myself, with my mental issues, I would just rather pay a close friend to do the install..

I also have quite a few old school Phoenix Gold (White) Amps.. "cheater amps" when they came out.. I have 3 MS-275s in a box upstairs.. and I think I have 1 MS-2240.. hmm MS or MPS?? might go look in a minute.. Im trying hard to remember... years later I would just run them in stereo for my mids and highs.. they are still great amps, just a little scratched up.. if I was smart Id sell them.. but they prolly would not go for much.. compared to the sentimental value..

I also still have some of the super custom boxes I have made, in the garage.. 2 of them were in one of my mustangs in the 90s.. the boxes are mostly Fiberglass and body filler.. the insides are all curvy, to match what everything on the sides and bottom looked like when I took out the back seats.. and then the tops have 2 small plexiglass windows each, looking into the box.. and the underside of the tops of the boxes has some oldschool 25 years ago neon, which reflected on all the curves in the box, smoothed our really nice and some super expensive paint I got.. and the 2 boxes would sit next to each other.. and then there was trim, etc.. with coverings for the windows etc.. and it looked like one large box when they were covered.. oh and they had 2 kicker comp 8s in each box.. I spent so much time making them, I didnt want to sell them.. when finished it was pretty much the same size as the bench that was back there.. so people would look in and just see what looked like a back seat when covered.. all that boom, and nothing visible..

I bet just one person will read this.. but I don't care that much..

my memory is terrible from over a dozen bad concussions.. sometimes its really nice to remember things clearly
 
Lurker said:
:lmao::lmao:

Takes me back. My favorite setup was a pair of xtr 15s, pair of 10s and poor MTX4160.....in an 88 Integra hatch. :laughing::laughing:
Click to expand...

A friend of mine dropped a pair of Lanzar 21's into his 442 back in the 90's. He had to pull the rear seat to get them in and built the box around them cause they didnt fit through the trunk lid. The amount of vibration that ended up in the upholstery was insane and the sound quality sucked, but fuck, it was a hell of a back massage.
 
ArTi54N said:
yeah I have a few decks in my main closet.. they were great in the 90s.. I've been tempted to find someone, to install any of them into my dad's truck..
Click to expand...

so they were all stock decks, except for one of them.. it's an eclipse deck that was top of the line.. requires amps.. and I dont want to put amps in a ranch truck.. I looked it up, and found someone selling the exact same deck for 350 dollars on ebay.. without a manual or box.. I think Im gonna try and let my dad sell it, cuz he has a well used ebay account.. trustworthy and all..

are any of ya'll interested? I just want enough money to get my dad a decent modern deck.. etc..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-school...cdc-mdc-control-great-condition-/254543574754
 
ArTi54N said:
I have learned quite a few things over the years, that for some reason.. most people don't know about, but can easily understand..

people often hear of the "golden ratio" when it comes to math, art, and science, etc.. but it also applies to sound.. if you are just making a simple box, try to use the golden ratio proportions and it will sound very good..

however if you do something stupid and make a cubed box, its gonna sound terrible.. as in like a 10 inch woofer in your console.. with box dimensions 12"x12"x12"..

I can't explain it but if you have something like a hatchback with a rear window.. your bass will sound much better if you aim the speakers directly at that window..

I think with the current SPL trends, and considering what hertz people are playing.. more and more people are gonna start having problems, with parts of the vehicles vibrating, screwin shit up.. but I don't keep up as much as I used to..
Click to expand...

No. And no.
If you make a box, use math. It's the only way.
Also: Digital DSP -> delay.
 
Project Twin, I have followed everyone of your builds you posted on the other "name not to be mentioned", board. I also subscribed to the BatDog channel on YouTube. I am floored by your abilities to whip out some awesome shit. I have looked at a few items specifically for the jeep JK after seeing what you did to Docs jeep.

I went ahead and built my own custom box for 2 12" Pioneer IMPP subs, sealed, sized at .81 CuFt each sub as per the OEM recommendations These are the shallow mount downward facing subs. New dash speakers with component tweeters, upgraded the speakers in the soundbar, added some sound deaden er, and some poly fill. A two channel amp for the subs, and a four channel for the fronts and sound bar mounted under the front seats. I am using a Kenwood DDX receiver, Just the basic stuff to get away from the factory sound system.

It sounds good for all genres of music.

Now my cargo area is taken over by a pretty substantial chuck of MDF and speakers.

I would like to free up some cargo space, and still be able to fold down my rear seats, what are your thoughts of these sub-woofer enclosures?

http://brpautodesigns.com/2007-2018...-carpet-subwoofer-box-sealed-sold-in-singles/

I can build these myself, and if sized correctly for the sub >1 CuFt. for a sealed enclosure should sound okay.

I was thinking I could take my current 12's and install them in two of these, or would one of these suffice with a different subwoofer and still have decent quality?

Without sounding like a nut swinger, I have seen your work and your opinion is highly valued.

Thanks.
 
Chevy_man said:
Stupid question, is win isd capable of any decent design? That was the only thing I found to use last time I built one.... In 2006.


I can't comprehend daily driving a 140+ db system hard enough to beat a car apart. I thought my 10's at 135db were plenty, and I rarely cranked it.
Click to expand...

I used win isd back in highschool to make a few decent boxes. Built one for a 12" Type-R that was just silly loud with only 500w going to it.

Current truck is stock alpine system for now. My old pickup thats now the project rig I built a bit. 6.5 Aline Type-S components, 12" DBXI Earthquake sub, Zapco 300w 4 channel for the comps and an alpine 1000w for the sub (500 rms). All ran through a Pioneer DEH-80prs, fully active setup. Box is sealed for a better SQ sound, still decently loud. Built this box as well, but being sealed I just ran with the factory specs for the size and didnt do anything fancy. My buddy does custom work in Califronia, puts some sick systems in high end cars. Hes a wizard with fiberglass and makes some nice enclosures.

Absolutely love seeing shit like this, total destruction:laughing:
 
You guys talking about running nice power numbers might give me a complex for shoving 3k watts RMS into a pair of 10s in a slot ported box. :laughing: I haven't come close to using that power yet I'm sure but it hits hard enough to make my nose itch at reasonable volume.

I'm thinking I can get equal output from a single sub in a proper box and not the prefab setup I have now but I need to do some research.
 
SomeGuy said:
Time/phase alignment is a thing and can be used to focus audio without moving the sources. See things like EAW Anya for wideband focusing. The other big thing in pro audio is running cardioid sub arrays to be able to steer bass away from stages and into the audience. Fun stuff.
Click to expand...

The theater I worked at in Vegas had huge bass traps designed into the architecture, and it was impossible to overload that room which was a problem for some Hip-Hop acts that wanted it to be overwhelmingly bass heavy. We had 40 2x15 JBL Vertec flown subs and 6 2x18 D&B B2 subs (max SPL 139db), but when Jay Z came through his FOH guy wanted to add 12 more B2's. It was stupid loud and horriblly out of balance. With 70 something inputs coming off the stage, 90% of the "music" was from track and 3 vocal mics, but people loved it. I seriously don't get it.
 
stjames151 said:
A friend of mine dropped a pair of Lanzar 21's into his 442 back in the 90's. He had to pull the rear seat to get them in and built the box around them cause they didnt fit through the trunk lid. The amount of vibration that ended up in the upholstery was insane and the sound quality sucked, but fuck, it was a hell of a back massage.
Click to expand...

We thought we were cool. God I feel old. :lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
Roc Doc said:
The theater I worked at in Vegas had huge bass traps designed into the architecture, and it was impossible to overload that room which was a problem for some Hip-Hop acts that wanted it to be overwhelmingly bass heavy. We had 40 2x15 JBL Vertec flown subs and 6 2x18 D&B B2 subs (max SPL 139db), but when Jay Z came through his FOH guy wanted to add 12 more B2's. It was stupid loud and horriblly out of balance. With 70 something inputs coming off the stage, 90% of the "music" was from track and 3 vocal mics, but people loved it. I seriously don't get it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, some of the big name touring acts will have riders that just boggle the mind. I've never personally worked the A or even B lister circuit though, mostly just smaller regional/local acts that I've mixed for....but I have heard some pretty crazy stories like that before.

Around 20 years ago I was at a live show for treble charger and stood right at the fence less than 20 feet away from a fair size turbosound flashlight array. I don't think I've ever experienced the punch of bass like that since, even in some clubs, but it was just a gut wrenching punch. Just one of those experiences that stick with you. Roughly like this:

23396872_xlarge.jpg
 
SomeGuy said:
Yeah, some of the big name touring acts will have riders that just boggle the mind. I've never personally worked the A or even B lister circuit though, mostly just smaller regional/local acts that I've mixed for....but I have heard some pretty crazy stories like that before.

Around 20 years ago I was at a live show for treble charger and stood right at the fence less than 20 feet away from a fair size turbosound flashlight array. I don't think I've ever experienced the punch of bass like that since, even in some clubs, but it was just a gut wrenching punch. Just one of those experiences that stick with you. Roughly like this:

Click to expand...

Ha! I've still got work gloves with that stupid blue powder coat on them. Turbosound (dumbest brand name in the industry, but good products), subs are 21" and use a standard XLR connector for high level signal. Silly Brits.
 
My neighbors had a party yesterday. Someone had a car stereo there that was making shit rattle in our house from 50 yards away. It was somewhat annoying but they only did it for a little while and it was early evening . My wife kept saying she didn't mind since it was early every time I said WTF?:rolleyes:
 
I never knew subwoofers/bass got this in depth.
 
woods said:
Flipped through it on mute. I'll watch when I get home. Judging by the hat/sunglasses combo, I can't tell if that guy has lots of friends or none. :laughing:
Click to expand...

He's one of the big name sound engineers out there...most notably for his years of touring with the red hot chili peppers and as owner of rat sound who has provided some of the really big touring rigs.

So yup, he's a bit strange lol
 
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