GLTHFJ60's Garage Chronicles

[GLTHFJ60]

Had a "build" thread to document this stuff on GJ, but GJ seems to be full of geriatric people who pay people to do work these days, not so much people building things themselves. I've got another phase of structure changes coming up soon hopefully so I figured I'd move some junk here.

GJ thread:

GLTHFJ60's Garage Expansion, Phase 1

Hello GJ! I've been a lurker here for a few years and have recently started posting more as I've been planning out this project. This weekend I've been able to get started and I'd like to ask some questions about planning my mudroom/laundry room. Before that, I'd like to thank the members of...

www.garagejournal.com

Will post a few highlights here, then describe the next phase in the most recent posts.

Bought a house with a 22x30 garage that some PO built half of into an extra room. That shit had to go.

Built a laundry room in the corner as that's where the washer and dryer were, and we don't have anywhere better in the house to put them.

And this is how it's been for the past 6 years. Lots of tools have come in, and lots of little improvement projects have happened, but you get the idea:

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Next project is going to be a big one, reorganizing the entire right side of the shop after converting the trusses from standard fink to a scissor truss. Current roof structure with way too much bullshit stored up there:

The plan is to convert 6 of the trusses in the right bay into scissor trusses with this type of design. I've got a note out to a local engineer to hopefully provide a consult and make sure I'm not going to kill myself. This seems to be a proven way to modify fink trusses. Again, I have a 30' free span:

Modified Fink truss. Red scribble sections get cut away after the black boards are added and finish fastened.

Interested to hear if anyone has modified a truss before, I haven't. If not, I guess I'll show y'all how its done after I figure it out, assuming I don't die.

 

[obenshain]

I have not modified any trusses, but did use scissor trusses in my garage addition. You will need to change the door track corner and upgrade the springs if you want the door to following the ceiling up, as well as upgrade to a 'head roller' style opener to get them out of the way.

marc

 

[buzzbombxj]

I'll be interested in seeing how your truss modification goes. I have some collar ties that annoy the shit out of me. I keep thinking I should just double them up and raise them a foot but I'm no engineer, I barely passed HS algebra.

 

[PAToyota]

Had a "build" thread to document this stuff on GJ, but GJ seems to be full of geriatric people who pay people to do work these days, not so much people building things themselves.

I grew frustrated with GJ a long time ago. Most of it is "showroom" type stuff more than "workshop" and a bunch of tool collectors rather than users. Also seemed to be a lot of armchair HGTV watchers who'd argue with you when you tried to give valid advice.

Interested to hear if anyone has modified a truss before, I haven't. If not, I guess I'll show y'all how its done after I figure it out, assuming I don't die.

It can be done. Good that you're talking to a Structural Engineer. I've seen some failed stuff where people just started cutting... Outside of what needs to be done for the finished condition, make sure everything is braced and supported during the process. Had one guy start cutting the first one apart, something happened, and with the first one compromised it started pulling those on either side of it apart and things went south rather quickly.

Unfortunately, I see that kinds of stuff fairly regularly - both "pros" and homeowners. "Oh, it will hold together long enough until we can put the new work in..."

A recent one. Not trusses, but interior excavation without proper shoring. The contractor figured since the joists ran parallel that the wall wasn't really supporting anything they had to worry about. Without the floor and ground bracing the wall from the inside, it bowed inward below grade and the rest of the wall toppled over like having your feet swept out from under you. Fortunately nobody was killed when all the stone came down...

 

[PAToyota]

And I don't mean to be all doom and gloom. Just that a phrase I seem to use a lot is "It'll be fine... Up until the point it isn't..."

Understand what can go wrong and why and then plan around that. The point people get into trouble is when they don't consider the possible issues and then are surprised when it all goes sideways (literally, in the above example).

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm totally with you on being careful about bracing. The truss modification plan above would be built in place, attached to the original trusses, and finished, before the original truss is cut away.

Here's the method I based my crude drawing on. Seems like a pretty safe way of going about things.

 

[WaterH]

I’m sure it will work, but I don’t understand why you want less storage. I would think you make a closed attic so you could heat the bottom on occasion.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I’m sure it will work, but I don’t understand why you want less storage. I would think you make a closed attic so you could heat the bottom on occasion.

I want to put in a lift so I can be like 06h3 and put a coil suspension on my F550 using my frame splicing method (will be covered in a different thread). I only have 10' of ceiling height right now which isn't enough for a real lift. Like obenshain said, I'll have to do some garage door work after this is all done, but there's a few plan ideas for that too, that I'll get into after I firm up my new truss design. I plan to be able to wheel my custom gantry crane inside the garage once all is said and done.

For storage, a few years ago I built a 12x12 shed with loft that isn't close to full yet. It'll hold the coolers and stuff stored above in the garage attic that gets displaced.

Finally, the plan is to convert only 6 of the trusses to scissor. That will leave me with 8' of garage attic space for stuff I want/need to store there. The key I've learned over the years is not to engineer in more storage space, but instead to get rid of shit I don't use that would otherwise be stored somewhere for forever.

 

[obenshain]

It is very nice to have the doors and their tracks out of the way.

marc

 

[WaterH]

I want to put in a lift……..

You had me right there.

Carry on.

 

[06h3]

Cool thread, I’ll be watching. Haven’t seen many “garage builds”

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Finally got an engineer to weigh in. Build can now commence. Going with the 2x10 on one side option, red beams in picture below. He said there was too much of a bending moment put on the top chord of the original trusses with the proposed scissor modification. Doing it this way will be slightly more material and work, but will result in much more head room.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Thanks for posting. It's nice watching other people's projects and seeing all the little details.

I redid my basement shower/sauna room. Previous owner had installed vapor barrier on both sides of the sauna walls (both sides interior) and everything turned to black mold shit.

When I redid the walls, I bought some of those plastic 2x6 deck boards and used those as the bottom of the wall (the part in contact with the concrete). Seeing your laundry room floor reminded me of this as garage floors are always subject to water.

Obviously it's too late now, and your stuff will probably outlast you anyway, just thought I'd post for anyone else reading.

 

[Stuck]

Finally got an engineer to weigh in. Build can now commence. Going with the 2x10 on one side option, red beams in picture below. He said there was too much of a bending moment put on the top chord of the original trusses with the proposed scissor modification. Doing it this way will be slightly more material and work, but will result in much more head room.

I did 3 trusses in my old garage so i could put the lift in. They were 36' span trusses like yours. I didnt consult an engineer but no nuns were killed. I put the collar tie 2-3' up from the bottom. I used 2x8s on both sides 2 on one side with the joint in the middle and 3 on the other with the joints staggered and sandwiched the chords. Then I cut most of the bottom collar tie out and boxed in what was left. It made an elevated box in the ceiling so I could lift a full size truck. May not have been the best way but it workd and the roof isnt sagging.

 

[aczlan]

Next project is going to be a big one, reorganizing the entire right side of the shop after converting the trusses from standard fink to a scissor truss. Current roof structure with way too much bullshit stored up there:

The plan is to convert 6 of the trusses in the right bay into scissor trusses with this type of design. I've got a note out to a local engineer to hopefully provide a consult and make sure I'm not going to kill myself. This seems to be a proven way to modify fink trusses. Again, I have a 30' free span:

Modified Fink truss. Red scribble sections get cut away after the black boards are added and finish fastened.

Interested to hear if anyone has modified a truss before, I haven't. If not, I guess I'll show y'all how its done after I figure it out, assuming I don't die.

Neighbor just did something similar to make more headroom for his lift.
Apparently back when he built the garage he decided to only put up an 8' wall vs a 10' one and his son was giving him grief about that while helping him revamp them.

Aaron Z

 

[Pony_Driver]

I grew frustrated with GJ a long time ago. Most of it is "showroom" type stuff more than "workshop" and a bunch of tool collectors rather than users. Also seemed to be a lot of armchair HGTV watchers who'd argue with you when you tried to give valid advice.



It can be done. Good that you're talking to a Structural Engineer. I've seen some failed stuff where people just started cutting... Outside of what needs to be done for the finished condition, make sure everything is braced and supported during the process. Had one guy start cutting the first one apart, something happened, and with the first one compromised it started pulling those on either side of it apart and things went south rather quickly.

Unfortunately, I see that kinds of stuff fairly regularly - both "pros" and homeowners. "Oh, it will hold together long enough until we can put the new work in..."

A recent one. Not trusses, but interior excavation without proper shoring. The contractor figured since the joists ran parallel that the wall wasn't really supporting anything they had to worry about. Without the floor and ground bracing the wall from the inside, it bowed inward below grade and the rest of the wall toppled over like having your feet swept out from under you. Fortunately nobody was killed when all the stone came down...

Neat building, what is it? Any more pics?

 

[PAToyota]

Neat building, what is it? Any more pics?

Well, was a neat building...

I think it was a carriage house on an estate - or what had been an estate. Lots of old stone buildings around here.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Half of the rafters in place. You're welcome for the shitty pic, lol.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

All of the new wood is in the air. Next up is adding all the hardware, then wiring, then insulation, maybe (probably) drywall.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I've had some other distractions this past week, but managed to get all the hardware in, wiring done, and bracing in for the existing garage doors. Trusses will be cut tomorrow.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Done. Didn't die. Feels like a cathedral in there now. Now I have 13'10" of ceiling height to the collar ties.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

For those interested in a rough cost breakdown:

$600 in wood
~$400 in screws (sds structural wood framing screws) about 600 of them
~$50 in 1/2" bolts/washers/nuts for the collar ties

Engineer only specified a single collar tie per bay but it felt right to double them up. Overall a very cost effective project for the gains.

Next project, hopefully later this year, will be cutting open the concrete to make a footer for a 2 post lift. Current pad isn't thick enough. In the meantime, I'll add a few more lights. Those two big LEDs at the top aren't bright enough in the edges of the shop, nor underneath the unmodified trusses.

 

[arse_sidewards]

What dimension was the lumber in your trusses as installed originally? I didn't see it listed. Looks like 2x6 all around.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

What dimension was the lumber in your trusses as installed originally? I didn't see it listed. Looks like 2x6 all around.

All 2x4s. 30' free span fink truss design.

Added 2x10 rafters to one side of each truss, 2x 2.5" long structural screws on 12" centers into the top chord of the original truss for the entire length. Doubled up 2x6 collar ties with 6x screws per side plus a 7" long 1/2" grade 5 plated bolt through the center of the whole sandwich.

 

[arse_sidewards]

All 2x4s. 30' free span fink truss design.

Added 2x10 rafters to one side of each truss, 2x 2.5" long structural screws on 12" centers into the top chord of the original truss for the entire length. Doubled up 2x6 collar ties with 6x screws per side plus a 7" long 1/2" grade 5 plated bolt through the center of the whole sandwich.

Do you know how significant those 2x4s are in lieu of all the additional material you added?

I actually have to do exactly 30ft trusses for something where headroom is necessary pretty soon so this thread is timely.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Do you know how significant those 2x4s are in lieu of all the additional material you added?

I actually have to do exactly 30ft trusses for something where headroom is necessary pretty soon so this thread is timely.

Are you asking how much strength the 2x4 top chords are adding to the new structure? Basically nothing IMO. The roof decking is nailed to them so they have to stay, but if I were building it from scratch and needed head room, I'd just do 2x10 rafters with a ridge beam.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Are you asking how much strength the 2x4 top chords are adding to the new structure? Basically nothing IMO. The roof decking is nailed to them so they have to stay, but if I were building it from scratch and needed head room, I'd just do 2x10 rafters with a ridge beam.

Yeah that’s what I was getting at.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

It's almost building season again, so planning is underway for the next phase.

I've been second-guessing the plan to put a two post lift in this garage because of how small it is. It's a 22'x30' with a laundry room cut into it, which sucks, but I can't move the laundry room, so I have to work around it.

So, I did what any reasonable person would do and started modeling the garage and large things within to get a feel of things. In order to get the lift to fit with the double garage door situation, it has to be right against the wall. I'm not sure I like that, or if it's a good idea.

This brings me to asking for help. Have a look at these renderings and dimensional drawings and see if this is something that you guys would entertain in your own shop, or if there are any glaring reasons why I shouldn't do this.

Refresher on the garage as a whole:

Highlighted areas are the laundry room and wall constraints I have.

This rendering shows the walls as well as the current mill/lathe/workbench arrangement, with labels:

Now, here are with the lift in place. Lift dimensions are based off of a wide config BendPak 10APX. That's not necessarily the lift I'm going to use, but I figured a 10k wide config lift is what I want to be able to get my Ferd in through it.

In the dimensioned drawing below, I give an approximation of the lift arm location on the right lift post, and the approximate angle that a car would have to drive in at to miss the lift.

So, what do you guys think? Do I do this with a two post lift or do I scrap that plan and move to an in-ground mid-rise scissor lift?

Thanks for your input.

 

[Tech Tim]

I have a two post lift in my two car garage and it eats up a lot of space.

I've been thinking about selling it and getting a set of the portable MaxJax, could use it side to side as regular, could also use them end to end like a rotisserie.

The one big downside for me is the 7K lift max. Which would mean no more lifting my F350.

MaxJax®

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