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Give Mt Rushmore back to the Indians

Ok this is going off topic so deal with it.

The Indians are much more deserving than any anteefah or negros that think they deserve coin because someone bought and sold their possible ancestors.
 
PAE said:
Ok this is going off topic so deal with it.

The Indians are much more deserving than any anteefah or negros that think they deserve coin because someone bought and sold their possible ancestors.
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Yes we are
 
PAE said:
Ok this is going off topic so deal with it.

The Indians are much more deserving than any anteefah or negros that think they deserve coin because someone bought and sold their possible ancestors.
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Why are they MORE deserving?

I'd like an explanation of this. For example, Blacks actually DID form the labor basis of the South's antebellum wealth. Now that is a complex issue, because that wealth was rapidly declining in importancy by 1861, but still, for about 75 years, Blacks were almost the sole basis of the South's economy.

Blacks fought in every American war, sometimes AS slaves. Including the Revolution.

How, as a people, did the Indians contribute to what is considered the Gold Standard of civilizational progress? Indians were roving bands of genocidal hunter-gatherers which were totally thrown into chaos by first Disease then The Horse. Virtually none of the 'native' tribes lived on their own land by the time Whites encountered them: it was ALL stolen land.

Native Americans then fought in some US wars, sometimes against us. Now they run Casinos for millions of gambling addicts.

So I'd like to see your case as to why AmerInds are MORE deserving than Blacks.
 
evernoob said:
Why are they MORE deserving?

I'd like an explanation of this. For example, Blacks actually DID form the labor basis of the South's antebellum wealth. Now that is a complex issue, because that wealth was rapidly declining in importancy by 1861, but still, for about 75 years, Blacks were almost the sole basis of the South's economy.

Blacks fought in every American war, sometimes AS slaves. Including the Revolution.

How, as a people, did the Indians contribute to what is considered the Gold Standard of civilizational progress? Indians were roving bands of genocidal hunter-gatherers which were totally thrown into chaos by first Disease then The Horse. Virtually none of the 'native' tribes lived on their own land by the time Whites encountered them: it was ALL stolen land.

Native Americans then fought in some US wars, sometimes against us. Now they run Casinos for millions of gambling addicts.

So I'd like to see your case as to why AmerInds are MORE deserving than Blacks.
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I think he's saying that they're more thorough victims, not that they contributed more.
 
evernoob said:
Why are they MORE deserving?

I'd like an explanation of this. For example, Blacks actually DID form the labor basis of the South's antebellum wealth. Now that is a complex issue, because that wealth was rapidly declining in importancy by 1861, but still, for about 75 years, Blacks were almost the sole basis of the South's economy.

Blacks fought in every American war, sometimes AS slaves. Including the Revolution.

How, as a people, did the Indians contribute to what is considered the Gold Standard of civilizational progress? Indians were roving bands of genocidal hunter-gatherers which were totally thrown into chaos by first Disease then The Horse. Virtually none of the 'native' tribes lived on their own land by the time Whites encountered them: it was ALL stolen land.

Native Americans then fought in some US wars, sometimes against us. Now they run Casinos for millions of gambling addicts.

So I'd like to see your case as to why AmerInds are MORE deserving than Blacks.
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Treaties, period
 
subybaja said:
I think he's saying that they're more thorough victims, not that they contributed more.
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Ok, I see that sentiment, but I don't see them as much 'victims' as other people do.

They came over the Siberian Land Bridge about 13,000 years ago, then populated all the way down to Tierra del Fuego within 4,000 years. Caribbean Islands were only populated between 1,000 - 4,000 years ago.

In that diaspora, AmerInds extincted at least 30 species of animal in the Western Hemisphere.

That makes them quite literally an Invasive Species.

Now, Europeans are an Invasive Species, but we actually developed the concept of Fairness which says AmerInds are 'victims'.

AmerInds had no such concept, at all.

AmerInds lost a technological race war and the reason they were not wiped out is because Whites said it was not fair. This makes them equal participants, not victims.

Blacks, OTOH, were brought here on slave ships. Now, that was a lucky break for the Blacks, but it still wasn't their choice.

The reason I'm challenging this and said the last sentence is b/c the concept of History is so thoroughly screwed because of Oppression Politics that I can't hardly stand it.

AmerInds are not 'victims'. They lucked out that they encountered Americans, who developed an egalitarian view of history, and didn't wipe out AmerInds completely. In ANY other context they would have been exterminated to the last child.
 
Paragon said:
Treaties, period
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Treaties are a tiny portion of the overall picture. If the US and West did not have a budding Egalitarian, Legalistic society, Treaties wouldn't have existed and we simply would have enslaved and exterminated them period.

The existence of AmerInds rests on the fact that eventually the West DID start honoring Treaties.

You see it as a loss, when in fact it's AmerInds surviving from the Pre-Industrial Age of complete domination and extinction, to the age of Legalism and Information, and Egalitarian ideals.

You see this backwards, as most do. The fact there even WERE Treaties to break is evidence that AmerInds lucked out in the whole scope of human history.

They are recipients of benefice, not victims. Treaties are the 1%, the missing 99% says AmerInds are not victims.

You are judging them by OUR sense of fairness, which literally did not exist among AmerInds.
 
My pov about the Indians has nothing to do with the stinkin economy its about what the white man did to the Indians and if anybody deserves reparations its the Indians not the negros.
 
PAE said:
My pov about the Indians has nothing to do with the stinkin economy its about what the white man did to the Indians and if anybody deserves reparations its the Indians not the negros.
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We gave reparations to all of the terrible Despotisms we've defeated in the last century or so, so yes, helping out the AmerInds is justified. They were awful, savage, racist, genocidal Despotisms, every single one.

Without exception.

And then we gave them lands, free college, the right to have Casinos, etc, in the same way we helped rebuild Japan, Germany, and even the former USSR (oh yes we did).

So I see the issue as MORE than fair to AmerInds. They literally have special exceptions made for them. Anything they do from about 50 years ago is on them.

In fact, the Lakota billions need to be taken back. Lakota stole the Black Hills from the Cheyenne.

No, they did:

 
subybaja said:
noble savage
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Egggggssssss-actly.

Noble Savage Fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage

A noble savage is a literary stock character who embodies the concept of the indigene, outsider, wild human, an "other" who has not been "corrupted" by civilization, and therefore symbolizes humanity's innate goodness.
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The entire concept of 'Cry For The Indians' is based on the FALLACY that they were playing fair and we weren't. That they were innately good and we weren't. That they lived in a Pastoral Utopia, and evil White Man came along and spoiled it for them.

That's absolute nonsense, in one of the few instances, in 100% of the cases.

The AmerInds fought among themselves, and against us, as savages, and it was only a lucky break that the West formed the concept that we shouldn't hunt every last whale, buffalo, and AmerInd down which saved them.

They literally owe us for their existence.
 
Anyone recall "Remember Jane McCrea"? This load of crock w/many variations was taught in school-
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I love how Native Americans are always fussing about getting land back when all they do with the land they have is get drunk or build casinos. The truth of the whole deal is the people who originally "owned" that land have been dead for thousands of years. The Natives fought each other constantly and continuously killed and conquered for land and resources. The people who that land really belongs to, if you follow the idiocy of "that was mine" to it's ultimate conclusion, probably died out so long ago that nothing of them remains. At least they got their ass kicked fair and square and didn't get forcefully converted to a pussy religion like my ancestors. Let me know when the pope starts coughing up some reparation money for that shit.
 
Elwenil said:
I love how Native Americans are always fussing about getting land back when all they do with the land they have is get drunk or build casinos. The truth of the whole deal is the people who originally "owned" that land have been dead for thousands of years. The Natives fought each other constantly and continuously killed and conquered for land and resources. The people who that land really belongs to, if you follow the idiocy of "that was mine" to it's ultimate conclusion, probably died out so long ago that nothing of them remains. At least they got their ass kicked fair and square and didn't get forcefully converted to a pussy religion like my ancestors. Let me know when the pope starts coughing up some reparation money for that shit.
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apparently you only believe in freedom of things that suit you
 
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well I'm part Native American (Tonkawa).. and part Royal Spaniard.. so who am I to take sides?

How about they get their mountain back, as long as they don't mess up the faces???

oh and if you can't spell out Native American, maybe we should call you dumas.. notice how I took out 2 letters??
 
LOL, does anyone here actually believe Native Americans "Take Care of the Land"? No they don't. I've been on Reservations all over the country and many of them in NM and AZ. Been on land and island property GIVEN to the Inuits in Alaska. They basically had a whole island with very nice housing and a completely setup city given to them. They let it ALL fall back to the ground. Looks like a zombie apocalypse filming location. I perform work on reservation land at times and I can tell you for a fact, they don't take care of the land. They don't even take care of their animals well either. They ALL do the same thing, move into a property, use it until it is unlivable and then move onto another. That is the FACT. These are Socialists people. they are not STEWARDS of the land, they are users who don't give a damn.
 
IH-SSII said:
LOL, does anyone here actually believe Native Americans "Take Care of the Land"? No they don't. I've been on Reservations all over the country and many of them in NM and AZ. Been on land and island property GIVEN to the Inuits in Alaska. They basically had a whole island with very nice housing and a completely setup city given to them. They let it ALL fall back to the ground. Looks like a zombie apocalypse filming location. I perform work on reservation land at times and I can tell you for a fact, they don't take care of the land. They don't even take care of their animals well either. They ALL do the same thing, move into a property, use it until it is unlivable and then move onto another. That is the FACT. These are Socialists people. they are not STEWARDS of the land, they are users who don't give a damn.
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All of that may be true but the answer you will get from Leftists and the ChiComs is that Whitey caused all the social problems that AmerInds have. The same exact reason that Black violence and crime and ill-achievement are excused.

There is some truth to it, of course. We put the AmerInds in shit territory with no value and gave them flour to eat, so they made Frybread, which basically turns you into a diabetic puffball. Plus they have a genetic pre-disposition to Alcoholism, which term is now so watered down that if you drink more than the allowed 1 Drink per year you are an Alcoholic. But AmerInds are catastrophically alcoholic which also plays into the fake Legend about themselves in terms of being Noble Savages.

It's all very sad but that is not a reason to make decisions. The fact is, the US advanced human-kind along the path of Progress, and we are in the American Peace after WWII, a unique place in history that hopefully never ends. No more Great Power wars, could happen, and it's happened so far because of America.

The AmerInds were in no position to use the vast wealthy of the NA Continent to accomplish this, and the whole thing is a ChiCom operation.
 
IH-SSII said:
LOL, does anyone here actually believe Native Americans "Take Care of the Land"? No they don't. I've been on Reservations all over the country and many of them in NM and AZ. Been on land and island property GIVEN to the Inuits in Alaska. They basically had a whole island with very nice housing and a completely setup city given to them. They let it ALL fall back to the ground. Looks like a zombie apocalypse filming location. I perform work on reservation land at times and I can tell you for a fact, they don't take care of the land. They don't even take care of their animals well either. They ALL do the same thing, move into a property, use it until it is unlivable and then move onto another. That is the FACT. These are Socialists people. they are not STEWARDS of the land, they are users who don't give a damn.
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I quoted you in case you try and change what you said, later on..

you ever been to a 'hood or ghetto? maybe see a few burned buildings, perhaps some rubble? Native Americans take care of the land just as good as the conquerors.. you just have to go to the right places.. before this country was invaded, they took care of the whole continent pretty good.. why else would Europeans come and take much of it away??

I dont know what to do with the last half of your comments.. I guess you are full of the same alcohol ya'll would give the natives..
 
ArTi54N said:
well I'm part Native American (Tonkawa).. and part Royal Spaniard.. so who am I to take sides?

How about they get their mountain back, as long as they don't mess up the faces???

oh and if you can't spell out Native American, maybe we should call you dumas.. notice how I took out 2 letters??
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Which one, Mt. Rushmore or the Crazy Horse monument?

I don't see the Racial component where a modern American gets anything because they are racially attached to the land. I'm Irish so I want my Erie Canal money, which should be an absolute BOATLOAD of cash, since that was literally the most important economic infrastructure in the Western Hemisphere for a good 50 years. I also want my money for the Chicago Ship and Sanitation Canal, which was first dug 10 miles by Irishmen, which cost 1,000 lives. 10 miles.

I also want my Railroad money. Cause the Irish absolutely dwarf the contribution of Chinese Coolies, who were hired slave labor BY Chinese, and they built some lines and spurs out West, the least important part of the system back then. Irish built the Alleghenny coal lines, the big East Coast lines, the stuff that was critical in the Age of the Railroad. Chinese built some scenic spurs which only became important after WWII.
 
IH-SSII said:
LOL, does anyone here actually believe Native Americans "Take Care of the Land"? No they don't. I've been on Reservations all over the country and many of them in NM and AZ. Been on land and island property GIVEN to the Inuits in Alaska. They basically had a whole island with very nice housing and a completely setup city given to them. They let it ALL fall back to the ground. Looks like a zombie apocalypse filming location. I perform work on reservation land at times and I can tell you for a fact, they don't take care of the land. They don't even take care of their animals well either. They ALL do the same thing, move into a property, use it until it is unlivable and then move onto another. That is the FACT. These are Socialists people. they are not STEWARDS of the land, they are users who don't give a damn.
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ArTi54N said:
I quoted you in case you try and change what you said, later on..

you ever been to a 'hood or ghetto? maybe see a few burned buildings, perhaps some rubble? Native Americans take care of the land just as good as the conquerors.. you just have to go to the right places.. before this country was invaded, they took care of the whole continent pretty good.. why else would Europeans come and take much of it away??

I dont know what to do with the last half of your comments.. I guess you are full of the same alcohol ya'll would give the natives..
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That's absolutely true as my post above says. AmerInd reservations range from Posh back East where they have Casinos (an out of the way Casino in the back woods, suddenly a McMansion development, Free College for the Rich Kids b/c Red Man!), all the way to gutted trailers in Alaska.

Some of that IS caused by the Whites, but here's the deal:

We cut off the AmerInd subsidies and privileges, then there is no reason to live out in a goddamned scrub-land desert, drinking Sterno until you go blind. Now you have to move to the city to get work, like the Mohawks building NYC skyscrapers.

This solves the whole problem: Treat the Indians equal. They lost the Wars, the treaties mean nothing, they've already fought for the USA like the code-talkers.

Treating them as special with special privileges is literally the problem.
 
Paragon said:
apparently you only believe in freedom of things that suit you
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Who said anything about freedom? I never said anything about taking anyone's freedom. The Native American's are free to come and go as they please, just like any other American citizen. So what does this have to do with freedom again?
 
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