Fuel Cell Tech

[posford]

If you came expecting tech, think again

Trying to rethink/redo some shit on my wheeling rig so i can at least drive it again, starting with the fuel system.

What I currently have:

• 1991 Ranger, carb'd 351w, when I did the engine swap, I used a bypass regulator to regulate from the in tank pump down to 4 psi.
• The shitty New England frame has been patched and the last time I added a bunch of bracing that keeps me from running the stock tank. Also added shit at the back of the frame in anticipation of a rear winch, so B2 tank in the back is a no go.
• Bought a aluminum tank that allegedly was in a boat, mounted it in the bed, built a filler neck, mounted a Carter P4070 electric pump in the bed next the the fuel tank, and adapted to the factory lines.

As much as I want to go fuel injection, budget says no. Last summer I rebuilt the carb, purged a bunch of watery fuel out, got it running, and was able to drive it to work once (which is more use than its seen in 4 years) but still ran rough.

I think I want to ditch the unknown tank. I found a cheapo aluminum fuel cell on Amazon like the picture, but it doesn't have mounting tabs, and the reviews talk about welds failing. A friend is an excellent Al tig welder, is it worth rolling the dice, on something like this? Trying to mount it against the front wall of the bed, likely with a steel toolbox behind it to protect it.

Is there some fool proof fantastic option that I'm not aware of?

 

[chaplinfj60]

look at goat built. search gas tanks

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Aluminum fuel tanks and off road vehicles should not be used in the same sentence unless we are talking about putting a bladder in it.

RCI and JAZ make plastic tanks very similar to the one in your picture but if you are going to use an external pump I'd suggest a drag race cell with bulkhead fittings on the bottom to keep your electric pump happy. They like to push fuel, not suck it.

 

[arse_sidewards]

What are you running currently for a tank?

 

[posford]

look at goat built. search gas tanks

What are guys using for mounts for these? I like it, and the idea of the Chevy 1500 fuel pump if I go aftermarket injection later.

Aluminum fuel tanks and off road vehicles should not be used in the same sentence unless we are talking about putting a bladder in it.

RCI and JAZ make plastic tanks very similar to the one in your picture but if you are going to use an external pump I'd suggest a drag race cell with bulkhead fittings on the bottom to keep your electric pump happy. They like to push fuel, not suck it.

Yeah I know. I used a (don't laugh) old stall mat between the cell and the bed, and bolted thru the tabs to hopefully isolate the tank better.

RCI doesn't have a plastic, JAZ has a 10 gallon one, hoping for a bit more.

What are you running currently for a tank?

I wish I had a pic, its an aluminum tank, meant for a boat I guess, holds probably 20 gallons, its pretty big.

 

[Bebop]

What are guys using for mounts for these? I like it, and the idea of the Chevy 1500 fuel pump if I go aftermarket injection later.

IBEX/Universal Fuel Tank Mount Kit NEW

Universal mounting kit for your 1155 18 gallon fuel tank. Mounts is laser cut and formed out of 1/8 steel. Includes the mounting tray, 2 straps and bolts and nuts for the strap. You can weld this mount to your chassis or weld brackets on to bolt it in. If you have a 4 seat

goatbuilt.com

I have one of the GB tanks and mounts and love it.

 

[chaplinfj60]

the skys the limit when mounting the gas tanks, but this is goat built mounts. . if you cant makes these then they are sold too. just get on some web sites and search around for fuel cells. with a Carb you may want a bottom dump so gravity does alot of the work.

 

[RustyC]

RCI doesn't have a plastic, JAZ has a 10 gallon one, hoping for a bit more.

They do. Even in red, black and grey.

 

[posford]

They do. Even in red, black and grey.

Oh, its plastic lined. I saw steel and said fuck that

 

[JohnnyJ]

There's always this if you want to go full DIY. Summit Racing: JZP-892-010-01

Jaz 892-010-01 Jaz Products Street Rod Fuel Cells | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Jaz Products Street Rod Fuel Cells with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Fuel Cells at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

I've run aluminum fuel cells, and have had friends run them. Some have no issues, but also had a few split. Not sure I understand why. I had an RCI-2161 that should have split because my initial mounts were crap, but it never did. I've seen them built in nice mounts and split. Go figure.

 

[posford]

Cyka Blyat?

 

[posford]

Idk I might just try pulling the tank and cleaning it, check for a crack or something letting water in.

Anyone got a keg tank in the New England area?

 

[posford]

Felt froggy and pulled the tank today.

Tanks pretty nasty because, well the whole truck is pretty nasty. Cup of yellow liquid is my fuel sample, didn't think it looked THAT bad you can also see one of the 2 mounting tabs in this pic.

I checked water content by putting equal parts gas and water into a bottle and shaking it, the fresh water pulls the suspended water out of the gas. Gas was at the corner of the tape pre adding water.

So we know there's water in the fuel. Both clear fuel filters show it as well, plus the factory one is still on the rail, presumably full of nastiness.
Filter pre pump, in truck bed

Filter pre carb

For shits and grins I whipped up a quick test of the fuel tank

I haven't checked all the seams yet, but I felt a surprising amount of air coming around the fuel level sending unit id be willing to bet that over the months this thing sits that it's what let the water in.

I had to stop for the afternoon, I think I can throw together something better to pressure check the tank and confirm the seams are good. I suppose if they are I'll finish cleaning the tank out, reseal the sender, reinstall, and try it?

 

[PurfsMcGurfs]

If that's an old boat tank it's no surprise the sender leaks. Moeller makes a universal gasket kit that includes the hardware, 5 hole gasket and screw gaskets. Ive had a lot of luck with those gaskets. Gasket kit

The water doesnt look like it's bad. That's practically nothing for a stagnant project rig in the ne climate. More than likely you gained water from condensation and temp swings. Ethanol fuels practically pull the water out of the air.

As far as pressure testing, put the cap on tight. The pickup nipple is usually 1/4 npt and the vent is 5/8". Put a quick connect for an air compressor in place of the pickup nipple. You can plug the vent with one of these. Plugs for 1/2 - 1" pipe

Put pressure into the tank but regulate it to around 3 psi or you will blow the welds. Pin holes are common on boat tanks. If it has leaks, you'll find them. Buddy can fix.

There isnt much sense in running another cheap aluminum tank. The boat tank isnt much different anyway. Boats rock and roll with fuel in them all the time. It's all about how secure you have the tank mounted. A good angle iron cage with full bottom support will keep that tank from cracking. Aluminum doesnt like to flex and the bottom is where they crack because the weight of the fuel is constantly pushing down.

 

[crazybluerider]

They do. Even in red, black and grey.

If you call them they will send you this tank without all the stuff on the top too. I got one with just the filler neck so that I could mount a factory GM pump/sending unit in it. They even sold it to me for about 50$ less since it didn't have the a/n fittings or sender in it. I thought that was pretty cool since I would have gladly paid full price or even a little extra to have a blank slate. I had it in less than a week too.

I was replacing an AL tank that had split both front vertical seems around 20 miles from my trailer...

 

[crazybluerider]

There isnt much sense in running another cheap aluminum tank. The boat tank isnt much different anyway. Boats rock and roll with fuel in them all the time. It's all about how secure you have the tank mounted. A good angle iron cage with full bottom support will keep that tank from cracking. Aluminum doesnt like to flex and the bottom is where they crack because the weight of the fuel is constantly pushing down.

I had mine well caged with support on all 6 sides. Split both front vertical seams.

 

[posford]

If that's an old boat tank it's no surprise the sender leaks. Moeller makes a universal gasket kit that includes the hardware, 5 hole gasket and screw gaskets. Ive had a lot of luck with those gaskets. Gasket kit

The water doesnt look like it's bad. That's practically nothing for a stagnant project rig in the ne climate. More than likely you gained water from condensation and temp swings. Ethanol fuels practically pull the water out of the air.

As far as pressure testing, put the cap on tight. The pickup nipple is usually 1/4 npt and the vent is 5/8". Put a quick connect for an air compressor in place of the pickup nipple. You can plug the vent with one of these. Plugs for 1/2 - 1" pipe

Put pressure into the tank but regulate it to around 3 psi or you will blow the welds. Pin holes are common on boat tanks. If it has leaks, you'll find them. Buddy can fix.

There isnt much sense in running another cheap aluminum tank. The boat tank isnt much different anyway. Boats rock and roll with fuel in them all the time. It's all about how secure you have the tank mounted. A good angle iron cage with full bottom support will keep that tank from cracking. Aluminum doesnt like to flex and the bottom is where they crack because the weight of the fuel is constantly pushing down.

I did my pressure test, yup leaking all around the sender. Good to know about the gasket kit.

Pulled it last night and started cleaning it. It never worked when I tried it, so I fully disassembled it and cleaned the surfaces, then testing with a fuel gauge I had bought for it. Ran a new ground from the body of the sender up through a hole where there was a junk rivet. Work mint now.

Bought some Permatex Permashield which is supposed to be GTG with gasoline, gooped the wire that comes through, the center stud, replaced the rubber washer on the center stud with a rubber o ring, reused the fiber washer, and snugged it to let the Peramatex firm up. Old gasket didn't look awful, so that got more Permatex on both sides, sender back in the tank, also snugged to let the Permatex firm up.

Going to go home after work and tighten it all down, and will recheck for leaks. Worst case is I'm out a couple hours from dicking around in the garage. If the sender is my only thing allowing water in, I'm trying to think up a decent way to weather proof it, short term at least. I've considered masking it off and giving it a coat of flex seal the Permatex should keep the gas in, I just want to be sure to keep the water out. Ghetto fab I know

 

[arse_sidewards]

There isnt much sense in running another cheap aluminum tank. The boat tank isnt much different anyway. Boats rock and roll with fuel in them all the time. It's all about how secure you have the tank mounted. A good angle iron cage with full bottom support will keep that tank from cracking. Aluminum doesnt like to flex and the bottom is where they crack because the weight of the fuel is constantly pushing down.

Boat tanks frequently get bedded with 2-part foam.

Or maybe that's a hack repair. But I've seen it in more than one boat I've cut up.

 

[PurfsMcGurfs]

I've considered masking it off and giving it a coat of flex seal the Permatex should keep the gas in, I just want to be sure to keep the water out.

I've never had good luck with sealants but ymmv. The gasket kit I posted seals up tanks without any sealant and I've never had an issue. Your vent line needs to have a charcoal canister connected or your fuel is going to absorb water from atmosphere when it sits. It takes a few months to get a noticable amount of water. The sender gasket is about keeping fuel in the tank but the water is coming in through the vent.

Boat tanks frequently get bedded with 2-part foam.

Or maybe that's a hack repair. But I've seen it in more than one boat I've cut up.

On glass boats yes they foam them in. Makes replacement a complete fucking nightmare. Aluminum boats usually dont because they have very short height tanks with a "v" to match the hull and sit under the floor boards. The hardcore aluminum salt guys will pop tanks from the hard slamming of swells but, they'll break stringers too. It's impressive.

 

[foxracing92]

If you call them they will send you this tank without all the stuff on the top too. I got one with just the filler neck so that I could mount a factory GM pump/sending unit in it. They even sold it to me for about 50$ less since it didn't have the a/n fittings or sender in it. I thought that was pretty cool since I would have gladly paid full price or even a little extra to have a blank slate. I had it in less than a week too.

I was replacing an AL tank that had split both front vertical seems around 20 miles from my trailer...

did you contact rci directly or summit racing? i am looking to do the same set up in mine.

 

[crazybluerider]

did you contact rci directly or summit racing? i am looking to do the same set up in mine.

I called RCI direct.

 

[Sean]

What are guys using for mounts for these? I like it, and the idea of the Chevy 1500 fuel pump if I go aftermarket injection later.

Yeah I know. I used a (don't laugh) old stall mat between the cell and the bed, and bolted thru the tabs to hopefully isolate the tank better.

RCI doesn't have a plastic, JAZ has a 10 gallon one, hoping for a bit more.

I wish I had a pic, its an aluminum tank, meant for a boat I guess, holds probably 20 gallons, its pretty big.

RCI has a lot of plastic tanks....

RCI plastic fuel tanks - JEGS High Performance

1 million+ parts, 800+ brands-all in-stock at guaranteed best prices. Buy by 11pm & your order ships same-day. Trust JEGS to get it right. Shop now!

www.jegs.com

Hope this helps....

 

[chaplinfj60]

I called RCI direct.

that looks like a factory fuel pump for a Silverado, if so how is it working for you?

 

[crazybluerider]

that looks like a factory fuel pump for a Silverado, if so how is it working for you?

It is a stock pump for the 4.3l out of a 2000 truck which is probably the same. It's been working great, one of the cool things about the factory gm pump is that the return line runs directly into the cup that the pump sits in and forms a faux surge tank. Works pretty good off camber.

 

[chaplinfj60]

good to hear. i have that same pump.

 

[PurfsMcGurfs]

It is a stock pump for the 4.3l out of a 2000 truck which is probably the same. It's been working great, one of the cool things about the factory gm pump is that the return line runs directly into the cup that the pump sits in and forms a faux surge tank. Works pretty good off camber.

Did you order the adapter for the pump or make one? I've been wanting a fuel cell for a while but, didnt want to run a frame mounted pump or pay 1200+ for an areomotive fuel cell.

 

[DannyK]

15 Gallon Fuel Cell w/ -AN Fittings 30x17x7

The Motobilt 15 Gallon Fuel Cell w/ -AN Fittings 30x17x7 provides a much smaller footprint than the other 15 gallon aluminum fuel cells we offer. In addition to a smaller footprint the tall thinner design keeps more fuel on the bottom surface of the tank for better pickup.

motobilt.com

 

[crazybluerider]

Did you order the adapter for the pump or make one? I've been wanting a fuel cell for a while but, didnt want to run a frame mounted pump or pay 1200+ for an areomotive fuel cell.

That collar was a piece that goat built had available. I can't remember exactly how much it cost but it wasn't terribly expensive.

 

[PortageeCustom]

I wanted to throw my garbage into this thread because it was an expirence building a fuel tank from scratch. Holds 20 gallons, has two baffles. Amazon fuel gauge. Two sumps, feeding into one inline pump, with 2 filters. Tank was coated in POR Tank coating.

I can't complain about it yet, going on 4 months with no issues. Just looking back I wish I would've gone with an intank pump. The inline isn't loud. There's just so many connections. And connections leak. Also having not one. But two connections right at the bottom of the tank to maybe start leaking. Haha.

I know a lot of people dread those coatings cause they can clog filters. I will keep replying to this thread if anything happens. But don't be afraid to build you're own tank. If you lay down solid beads. It's not too bad.

 

[TTMotorsports]

Ok so I am building myself a custom can for my prerunner truck AND getting a bladder made for it. Now I am going to run dual Walbro 255 LPH fuel pumps in tank. Now where should I look for a top plate for that and would be awesome if it had wiring provisions to hookup on outside to switch and inside to the pumps.

Thanks