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ford 360fe hard starting/restarting

lagunaMS

lagunaMS

brown star member
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
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3077
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153
70 f250, 360fe, unknown mileage, unknown compression numbers but getting a tester today

Got the truck a couple years ago non running and did plugs/wires, cap/rotor, ignition coil, fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel lines. Just had the carb rebuilt, valve cover gaskets and pcv replaced also. It has an edelbrock 1406 with non-op choke. probably too much CFM for this engine I'm thinking. I got the truck from my uncle after he died and I don't have the original carb

The hard starting didn't change with the carb rebuild. Especially on a hot restart it will take a few tries to get it to start and the easiest way I've found to do a hot restart is hold the gas pedal to the floor while cranking on it.

Once it's running it runs great and has plenty of power to move itself around and maintain highway speeds (65 mph)

There is an off idle stumble that existed before the carb rebuild and still happens. Not just gradually giving it throttle like when you accelerate but if you just quickly floor it, it will choke and stumble before it catches up and starts increasing RPM

Doubt this is a factor but the exhaust maniold had a yuge crack in it and when I removed the manifold it fell off into 2 pieces, so not sure how that affected running but it seemed to run fine (relative to before it got cracked) and also drive fine.

When I cold start it I usually have to do 3 pumps, turn it over a few times, 3 pumps, turn it over a few times and then will finally catch and start running and once it starts running the starter does a loud screech which I assume is it needed to be shimmed.

It's almost like the carb loses prime too easily, despite the fuel pump being relatively new. That plus not that strong of a spark. I haven't done any troubleshooting besides everything mentioned above. Still working on the manifold replacement and have to use the welder to remove a couple broken bolts.

I had a 78 k20 with the same model carb a few years ago and kinda ran like shit with before replacing the carb and distributor, then it ran great. My most recent carbed truck was an 83 toyota with a 22r, 3 pumps of the gas and it was running before I could let go of the key. and if i was doing stop and go in town all day I never had to pump the pedal again. it kept prime for days and just had to bump the key to restart it. That's what I expect from this truck too

am I better off slapping the stock carb on before getting too annoyed with trouble shooting?

Ford Truck, 1968-1969, 360

hep me :homer:

/IowaOffroad
 
The carb if it's working correctly isn't the issue, and it's not too big, I've run those on 302s many times and they were some of the easiest starting cars I've owned.

There are no starter shims, if it's grinding the starter or flywheel or both are fucked up.

Points clean and gapped correctly? Timing?
 
TrikeKid said:
The carb if it's working correctly isn't the issue, and it's not too big, I've run those on 302s many times and they were some of the easiest starting cars I've owned.

There are no starter shims, if it's grinding the starter or flywheel or both are fucked up.
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good to know. there are some fucky looking teeth on the flywheel. the starter was loosely mounted when I got the truck so I guess that's how it happened.
TrikeKid said:
Points clean and gapped correctly? Timing?
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I'm fairly certain I replaced the points but defintely do not remember gapping them

Will put a timing light on it once I get the manifold back on
 
Does it restart fine if you hit it with starting fluid?


Probably not a mechanical engine issue since engines generally restart easier when warm if they're getting fuel and spark.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Does it restart fine if you hit it with starting fluid?


Probably not a mechanical engine issue since engines generally restart easier when warm if they're getting fuel and spark.
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I've actually never tried that, I only ever use starting spray if it's been sitting for a couple months
71PA_Highboy said:
If you take the plugs out again, check the stroke to figure out which FE it is.

The cheap chinese HEI dizzy's are a good troubleshooting tool.... ;)
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never considered it could've been swapped :homer: so it could be a 352 or 390? Unless they use the same parts I replaced I assume it's a 360

also didn't consider swapping to HEI but if the distributor has to be replaced anyway....maybe
 
You are having heat/vapor issues.

When you shut it off the heat is boiling all the fuel out of the carb.

Adding an electric fuel pump back by the tank, a cheap pump, would probably cure most of this. Will still act flooded when you fire it up hot, but it will fix the cold start issues.
 
71PA_Highboy said:
If you take the plugs out again, check the stroke to figure out which FE it is.

The cheap chinese HEI dizzy's are a good troubleshooting tool.... ;)
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We just went over this. All FE's are 390s when for sale.

Sounds like a poor ignition, put in a petronix instead of points.
Tiha said:
You are having heat/vapor issues.

When you shut it off the heat is boiling all the fuel out of the carb.

Adding an electric fuel pump back by the tank, a cheap pump, would probably cure most of this. Will still act flooded when you fire it up hot, but it will fix the cold start issues.
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This. One of the many ways Carbs suck balls. EFI solved this for me, haha.
 
Tiha said:
You are having heat/vapor issues.

When you shut it off the heat is boiling all the fuel out of the carb.
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Caused by what? Where the fuel lines are routed?
Tiha said:
Adding an electric fuel pump back by the tank, a cheap pump, would probably cure most of this. Will still act flooded when you fire it up hot, but it will fix the cold start issues.
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How will it fix the cold start issue? Or will it just get gas to the carb quicker?
rattle_snake said:
We just went over this. All FE's are 390s when for sale.

Sounds like a poor ignition, put in a petronix instead of points.
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That's more expensive than just going HEI,
rattle_snake said:
This. One of the many ways Carbs suck balls. EFI solved this for me, haha.
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Yea but..... I shouldn't be having the hard starting. No reason a carb can't run better than this. Only other 2 carbed trucks I had both did. Especially the Toyota I mentioned
71PA_Highboy said:
You aren't running an FE... Next you will tell him to LS swap it.... :stirthepot:
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Right, FE is staying until I find a newer big block to replace it with. It's got some life left I want to squeeze out
 
lagunaMS said:
Caused by what? Where the fuel lines are routed?

How will it fix the cold start issue? Or will it just get gas to the carb quicker?
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Just heat from the engine bay, Once the engine is off and there is no air moving the temp rises under the hood.

You can try a spacer or something to insulate the carb from the intake but I have never had much luck with that fixing the issue completely.

It will fix cold start just like you are thinking. Hit the key and you will have fuel at the carb in seconds instead of cranking, then stopping and cranking again.

Any old carb'd engine I have I add one. Saves so much wear and tear on the starter and electrical system.

It is funny how when these cars and trucks were new they didn't have these issues, but with age it happens and there doesn't seem to be a way to get it to operate like new again. It is probably a combination of 10 different things causing it.
 
So... old man story here.

65 Mustang comes into the shop. Same symptoms you are describing.

Zero external indications of a problem. Let the car sit hot and boy did it stink of gasoline and it would not start and acted flooded.

Wouldn't start cold without about 10 seconds of starter and THEN a couple of pumps of the pedal.

Since it was an Autolite we pulled the top off the carb and let it idle a bit.

Once it got warm/hot a casting flaw would open up from the bowl into the accelerator circuit and when you turned the car off the heat would just keep the flaw open an drain the bowl into the intake so you never saw gas but had all the same symptoms.

not saying this is your problem, but if you have a spare carb to do a quick swap with it may be worth it... or pull the top off and see what happens.
 
1406 is an easy to live with carb. Easy to fix the choke as well.

I'm going with too much timing/spark issue.

Doesn't sound carb related


The stumble, I'd love to figure out how to get rid of that from my edelbrock, can roll into the throttle pretty quick to avoid it. Just don't "stab" the throttle and its never an issue
 
Where are your fuel lines routed? Toss up some pictures.

It's a minute or so to pop the top off the carb. If you suspect the bowl is dry, once you get it to "hot restart don't start" take off the top and see if the bowl is empty
 
Agreed, pop the top plate off and confirm no fuel. No fuel- boiled off or washed down the engine. Not as likely but tank could’ve pulled it back.

Bowl of fuel- timing or spark
 
Provience said:
1406 is an easy to live with carb. Easy to fix the choke as well.

I'm going with too much timing/spark issue.
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I may have set the timing well enough to half ass run and just left it like that
Provience said:
Doesn't sound carb related


The stumble, I'd love to figure out how to get rid of that from my edelbrock, can roll into the throttle pretty quick to avoid it. Just don't "stab" the throttle and its never an issue
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Yea mine is the same. And if I stab it it will pop and bog for half a second before revving
Provience said:
Where are your fuel lines routed? Toss up some pictures.

It's a minute or so to pop the top off the carb. If you suspect the bowl is dry, once you get it to "hot restart don't start" take off the top and see if the bowl is empty
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From the fuel pump, up and in between distributor and front of valve cover probably resting on the head :homer: Will get pics tomorrow when it's not raining
holdmypocket said:
What are the compression numbers?
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Haven't checked yet but will this weekend
SKULLYOTA said:
On my 69 360FE, drivers side manifold is practically two pieces. And the rusted over snapped bolt from where the PO tried to change the manifold 30yrs ago :lmao:
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I thought mine was just cracked but it was in fact 2 separate pieces when it got unbolted
 
Check the dwell on the points, I know it sounds crazy but if its not correct it'll pop and bog like that.
 
My first inclination is ignition. Could just be a weak coil. But everything about those whole ignition systems is weak. This is the perfect application an eBay HEI is for.

Provience said:
1406 is an easy to live with carb. Easy to fix the choke as well.

I'm going with too much timing/spark issue.

Doesn't sound carb related


The stumble, I'd love to figure out how to get rid of that from my edelbrock, can roll into the throttle pretty quick to avoid it. Just don't "stab" the throttle and its never an issue
Click to expand...
I got really good at tuning those. I have two of the full kits with jets metering rods and springs. I hated those edelbrock’s until I figured out not to be scared and just find the right mix of jet size and step change in the metering rod. They at least made it easy to change metering rods and springs.

Now if I’ve got one pissing me off I’ll take it somewhere I can drive it around by myself. I have a vacuum gauge with a 4 foot hose I can zip tie to a windshield wiper and watch vacuum. I’ll leave the air cleaner at home because it’s not going to hurt anything for 30 minutes of driving without it. I take the torx screwdrivers and a pick for pulling the snap rings. I’ll drive and pull over and change springs and rods till it’s running smoothly. I keep a notebook on the passenger seat and write down every change. I’ll keep going till I’ve went past the past the point of diminishing returns and then go back to good and smooth.
 
Kriptonite said:
Check the dwell on the points, I know it sounds crazy but if its not correct it'll pop and bog like that.
Click to expand...

Leadfoot21 said:
Ditch the points
Click to expand...

JR4X said:
My first inclination is ignition. Could just be a weak coil. But everything about those whole ignition systems is weak. This is the perfect application an eBay HEI is for.
Click to expand...
hei is so cheap I should've done it as soon as i got the truck. Going to order the hei distributor this week and slap that in
 
JR4X said:
My first inclination is ignition. Could just be a weak coil. But everything about those whole ignition systems is weak. This is the perfect application an eBay HEI is for.


I got really good at tuning those. I have two of the full kits with jets metering rods and springs. I hated those edelbrock’s until I figured out not to be scared and just find the right mix of jet size and step change in the metering rod. They at least made it easy to change metering rods and springs.

Now if I’ve got one pissing me off I’ll take it somewhere I can drive it around by myself. I have a vacuum gauge with a 4 foot hose I can zip tie to a windshield wiper and watch vacuum. I’ll leave the air cleaner at home because it’s not going to hurt anything for 30 minutes of driving without it. I take the torx screwdrivers and a pick for pulling the snap rings. I’ll drive and pull over and change springs and rods till it’s running smoothly. I keep a notebook on the passenger seat and write down every change. I’ll keep going till I’ve went past the past the point of diminishing returns and then go back to good and smooth.
Click to expand...
I like the edelbrock and had the wide band, vac gauge and tach for a while on it to try out various thing a ma doos. Just never could get it to not go lean right when stabbing the throttle. Different valves, orifice, springs and never could get it fully cleaned up. Runs great, just don't do that :rasta:
 
Provience said:
I like the edelbrock and had the wide band, vac gauge and tach for a while on it to try out various thing a ma doos. Just never could get it to not go lean right when stabbing the throttle. Different valves, orifice, springs and never could get it fully cleaned up. Runs great, just don't do that :rasta:
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Same here on a 429 and 460, didnt have the issue on 302 or 351.

Once tune is confirmed (i vote petronix cause better quality overall and no giant ugly air cleaner blocking thing in front)

I think a wood spacer is in order, ideally block off and kind of crossover that heats the manifold(not sure off top of head what fe has)

Lie said above, gas has gotten shittier and cant stand the heat it used to
 
Got the manifold replaced, forgot how quiet this truck was. Stock manifolds, dual exhaust, and some YUGE Ford brand mufflers in the back. Will be even better once the pipes are routed out to the back instead of dumped after the mufflers. Has me tempted to put OEM exhaust on every vehicle I own so I can hear myself think

Anyway, HEI distributor showed up today so I'll be tossing that in this weekend to see how it helps. It was cheaper than pertronix. Will get compression numbers then as well
 
Its crazy how quiet old carbed stuff with cork bottle mufflers can be.
I had a 65 c10 283 that was silent up st engine with stock single exhaust
 
lagunaMS said:
Got the manifold replaced, forgot how quiet this truck was. Stock manifolds, dual exhaust, and some YUGE Ford brand mufflers in the back. Will be even better once the pipes are routed out to the back instead of dumped after the mufflers. Has me tempted to put OEM exhaust on every vehicle I own so I can hear myself think

Anyway, HEI distributor showed up today so I'll be tossing that in this weekend to see how it helps. It was cheaper than pertronix. Will get compression numbers then as well
Click to expand...
Not just compression numbers but if you are pulling a plug, stroke numbers as well... ;)

FYI... There are clearance issues with stock air cleaner and the HEI. I had to put a spacer and a lifted aftermarket 3" air cleaner on it to make it work.
 
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