Fire Extinguisher/Fire Suppression Discussion Thread

[snivilous]

Those things always looked kinda janky to me. I would much rather have my 2seconds of 5lb extinguisher vs having to shove my hand in the fire to maybe knock it down with one of those.

Plus if your hands are hurt you're SOL, if you only have one good hand you're SOL, if anyone but the .000007% of people that have seen one grab it you're SOL since they don't know what to do with it. They are utterly horrible imo even IF they worked as intended. The last thing I want is to be fucking with a striker on a road flare thing while something is on fire.

And yes, I know there's the argument of "have lots of options and this is one", but I don't consider it an option to begin with since your common person won't even know it's an extinguisher or how to use it.

 

[JR4X]

Those things always looked kinda janky to me. I would much rather have my 2seconds of 5lb extinguisher vs having to shove my hand in the fire to maybe knock it down with one of those.

We were talking about it, on ours if you had a fire under the hood, maybe shut it under the hood ??? Hope for the best???

A friend of mines rear engine 4400 car burnt down at KOH one year. So he put two separate suppression units in it, one just for the engine area where it started last time. And one for in the cab. Reno finals it catches on fire in the engine area again. He pulled the pin and it let the white cloud out. When the cloud was gone the fire was still a going. My little brother ran over and grabbed the 2.5 pounder off the car and put it out with one blip of ABC. We fixed it and he ran it in the main.

 

[maveric]

Which one? Wasn’t there some concern with powder packing discussions earlier on ABCs

We have a lot of oilfield trucks in our area, and our local extinguisher company told me that they turn the extinguisher over, and just take a rubber mallet and smack the bottom of it a few times, This breaks up the compacted powder.

As for the AFFF, there is supposed to be a total nationwide ban on ALL AFFF foams starting in 2025. If we use it from a fire suppression standpoint, I have to document location, how many gallons used, and contain all runoff.

From google:
What states have banned AFFF foam?

Other states with PFAS-containing AFFF bans that have passed state legislative steps include Arkansas, California, Colorado, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, Vermont, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

More info related to AFFF foam

NFPA Journal – The New Foam, Fall 2022

With AFFF being phased out and new firefighting foams being developed, the fire protection world braces for what’s next

www.nfpa.org

 

[gt1guy]

We have a lot of oilfield trucks in our area, and our local extinguisher company told me that they turn the extinguisher over, and just take a rubber mallet and smack the bottom of it a few times, This breaks up the compacted powder.

As for the AFFF, there is supposed to be a total nationwide ban on ALL AFFF foams starting in 2025. If we use it from a fire suppression standpoint, I have to document location, how many gallons used, and contain all runoff.

From google:
What states have banned AFFF foam?

Other states with PFAS-containing AFFF bans that have passed state legislative steps include Arkansas, California, Colorado, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, Vermont, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

More info related to AFFF foam

NFPA Journal – The New Foam, Fall 2022

With AFFF being phased out and new firefighting foams being developed, the fire protection world braces for what’s next

www.nfpa.org

Well shit. That just made me buy 4 refils for my AFFF system. That should last me till I die of old age or I set my rig on fire 5 times.

 

[ridered3]

 

[ridered3]

 

[Winchested]

Funny WWW has been selling the elements in Cali for a couple years. That Jason Green in the video.

 

[ridered3]

Funny WWW has been selling the elements in Cali for a couple years. That Jason Green in the video.

Yeah I recognized his voice once introduced. I have no experiences with the Elements so it was interesting to watch some real world testing.

 

[Poke]

I have been in multiple fires in a 4400. Engulfed, unconscious waking up, fire coming up through the cracks at me, getting out in flames. 3 separate and different scenarios.

ABC’s, even new with a little racing on them fail. I’ve watched my shit burn while rapidly arguing with non discharging ABC’s.One time at Mine Made the co-dog threw fresh cow pies at the car until it stopped the engine oil fire. I stopped the guy behind me for help and his ABC worked but wasn’t necessary. At mine made cows are free range and on course. It was a mess it clean off the block and unrealistic to carry a bag of cow shit around for fire surpression.

I once was coming to after a 50mph tree hit in a fog, trying to restart the car while someone was grabbing at me and yelling. The guys behind us came up to us on fire and napping. The fog was their extinguishers, they were pulling me out. The back of the passenger seat melted, mine was smoothed out but not burning yet.

Third time was KOH where my 3 working ABC’s and 2 from the crowd didn’t slow the fire, but 5 people throwing sand on it did.

If you have an ABC in a vehicle you have wasted your time, money and space. If you are racing, have separate halon equivalents next to the driver and passenger with a big one on the back so if one gets out you can help the other person. Practice grabbing it with all your gear on, you have time but not much. live through it #1. Then deal with your toy.

Fires are so situational that getting out should be the only focus when setting up fire suppression, and you might need to fight a little fire to get out. I was never scared of the speed, obstacles, or big wrecks but trying to get out of an upside vehicle on fire with gloves, helmet, hans, 5 points, window net, obstructed window holes… that is left for nightmares.

I see people still read this from time to time. Good! Be safe

 

[JR4X]

I see people still read this from time to time. Good! Be safe

I might add, to practice at least once a year. Time your self getting out as fast as you can in good conditions, one might be surprised at how long it takes when the car is sitting still, upright.

Then remember, you might find yourself on fire while in motion and you have to stop the car first before you can begin the sequence. Knowing that a fire suit is only going to protect you for 11 seconds before you start to sustain burns. By 30 seconds you can be getting 2nd degree burns. Not to be all doom and gloom but build accordingly.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Not to interrupt the clipboard and vest circle jerk but the fire presumably isn't starting in the cabin and 30sec is an eternity.

 

[ridered3]

I might add, to practice at least once a year. Time your self getting out as fast as you can in good conditions, one might be surprised at how long it takes when the car is sitting still, upright.

Then remember, you might find yourself on fire while in motion and you have to stop the car first before you can begin the sequence. Knowing that a fire suit is only going to protect you for 11 seconds before you start to sustain burns. By 30 seconds you can be getting 2nd degree burns. Not to be all doom and gloom but build accordingly.

Good points all around and would definitely apply to a trail rig too.

 

[JR4X]

Not to interrupt the clipboard and vest circle jerk but the fire presumably isn't starting in the cabin and 30sec is an eternity.

Many times It does start inside the cabin. Have you ever ridden in a SXS?

 

[white-rhino]

Not to be a shit stirrer here but we experienced a vehicle fire last weekend with JohnnyJ's rig catching on fire. Not sure of the final diagnosis but it appears that the #7 injector was spewing gas. It had saturated the dirt on the skid plate before it finally caught fire.

I don't know the proper definition of fully engulfed but there were flames underneath on both sides of the skids, coming out from both sides of the hood, through the shock cutouts in the hood and in the cockpit on both sides. From my vantage point 150 feet away, the flames were 1-2' tall.

When it erupted in his face John had singed hair and eyebrows. He got out and had an element extinguisher. The other 3 of us had ABC extinguishers. We emptied all 4 extinguishers and put the fire out. All of the wiring and most hoses are toast. Both seats have fire damage. Maybe more TBD. But all four of the extinguishers worked.

Element - worked
ABC - worked

I'm no expert and there may be a better solution, but John and the car survived.

It could be argued that we were only fighting a fuel fire and not components that were on fire. I don't know. But I know I saw flames, hit them with my ABC and they went out.

 

[94toytruck]

Damm, glad that wasn't worst! I always worry about fire. My buggy let magic smoke out the dash once while wheeling and thankfully the CB blew and twice from tree debris. Tree debris is a big problem here even when stuff is green out there's deadfall laying around.

I carry 2 Elements and 2 small ABCs 1 of each within reach. I'm not sure it's enough and I'm not winning any prizes for getting out fast with a bitched up leg.

 

[white-rhino]

I don't want to derail the suppression system discussion. Just sharing our recent experience.

I carry 3 (2.5lb) ABC's. One in the cockpit and one on each side in the rear. All of the other guys had 2 that I know of, maybe 3. I want one in the cockpit for me if necessary and one on each side outside so that there is one available in case the other side is buried in the dirt.

I used the same ABC on my 5th wheel when the fridge caught on fire. The shitty little one that came with the RV was useless but the ABC off the buggy put it out.

 

[rockdog57]

I carry two abc’s and two elements we picked up at trail hero. I’m kinda annul about fire. I tried to put out a fire on the side of the road on a guys truck. Emptied two abc’s and a big abc a semi driver had fire wasn’t out of control when we got there. But we couldn’t get to the source. We watched it burn to the ground with all his tools in it while he just sobbed because that’s what he made his living with. I’ll never forget that.

 

[JohnnyJ]

I had 2 elements on my buggy. One inside within reach of driver or passenger, and one outside on rear down bar. I also have a seat belt cutter within easy reach of the driver. Shutdown that turns off everything but winch, radio, and winch is within reach of the driver and easily accessed from outside the buggy.

The engine wasn't running right, and since getting home I figured out cylinder 7 had major leak between the injector and fuel rail. I presume the gas sprayed all over the driver's side including the efi and chassis harness that ran from the back of the engine up the driver's side tube work. The gas also ran down and pooled in the engine and transmission skid plate. When it stalled it backfire and a large fire ball blew in my face. I paused for a beat to figure out what happened, and I could feel, smell, and hear the fire.

I had raced for 5+ years, and never had a fire, but the years of experience meant I was quick at getting out of the harness and getting out of the vehicle when I need to. That experience was good to asses and escape. I was out of the rig, had shutdown the main power disconnect, and grabbed the element from inside the rig in quick order. I was able to get the element started quickly, and attacked the fire for the 50 seconds or so that it lasts.

During that time the other 3 guys including white-rhino ran up with their ABC fire extinguishers. As my element ran out the fire was out. I definitely saw the element pushing back on the fire. The ABC extinguishers were very effective at knocking down flames as well, but both types had issues with the gas soaked parts reigniting.

I can't say the element was the best or the worst, and I will not promote or trash it. I will replace the unit, but I will also remount my 2.5lb ABC extinguisher on the back.

I think the fact that we got to work on controlling the fire quickly, and had 4 people fighting it made all of the difference. I had always heard your fire extinguishers are to get you out as safely as possible, and trying to stop the fire secondarily. It worked out for me this time. I have some rebuilding to do, but it could have been much worse. When the fire was out, I was most happy that my friends and I were all unharmed, and I'm not just saying that to be sappy. It could have gone off the rails in so many ways.

 

[rockdog57]

JohnnyJ, glad as hell you are okay. In my experience when you attack a fire is critical. From the time it starts to full inferno is literally seconds. Seconds count as Jrx pointed out. Get out fast first, then don’t hesitate to attack the flames. I agree the element isn’t the end all be all. Why I carry both.

 

[JR4X]

Not to interrupt the clipboard and vest circle jerk but the fire presumably isn't starting in the cabin and 30sec is an eternity.

Many times It does start inside the cabin. Have you ever ridden in a SXS?

Since you’re not going to answer. I just want to reiterate that you are the last person on this board anyone should be consulting in any way for safety advice.

Want some trash moved for the lowest dollar? Dickeadiccus is your guy. Crass Opinions on women or Toyota’s, dickheadiccus is your go too. Building something cheap and only have the wrong tools, Arse you are up to bat.

Doing anything the right way so as to best decrease your chances of getting permanently disfigured. Going to be in your best interest to disregard anything coming snidely out of Arsesidewards head. We get it, you don’t value or care about competition, you’re too much of a broke Dick to play that game. We don’t need you to think that racing is special, hate on it all you want since the conversation excludes you entirely. Competition does create special circumstances that you’d have no connection to. I’ve had people close to me get burned and broken while following all the best practices and with the required safety gear.

These two vehicles were in motion when they went up in flames interior first. The orange car was saved by my dad and other passersby with two 20 pound ABC’s and a couple 2.5 pounders, it lived to race another day. The SXS, the fuel tank is under the passenger’s seat as is the electrical bundle, total loss on that one. Just a couple real examples out of many I’m familiar with.

 

[white-rhino]

^^^^ this right here is why I said I don't want to derail the thread. I don't race and have never experienced what it's like to be strapped in with gloves, Hans and window nets. But I can only imagine. Getting out of a 5 point with a steering wheel in the way is bad enough. Racing is it's own world of risk. Even rec wheeling we were lucky.

I shared our experience but I certainly don't want it to influence someone that an Element or ABC is OK. Even worse, I wouldn't want my experience to lead to someone feeling safe and have an injury or worse. All I can say is it got the job done for us.

The take away here is that fires happen quickly and if you aren't prepared, either physically or mentally, bad things happen.

AND NO ONE SHOULD JOKE ABOUT IT OR TAKE IT LIGHTLY!

 

[rockdog57]

Rhino, couldn’t have said it better. I worked with a guy that had been burned severely in an industrial accident. I wouldn’t have wished that on my worst enemy. We have a hobby that at times can be dangerous. Why on earth would you not try to mitigate as much danger as possible? Just something to not take lightly.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Since you’re not going to answer. I just want to reiterate that you are the last person on this board anyone should be consulting in any way for safety advice.

I was just going to drop it but since you're pushing the issue I went and watched half a dozen race cars burn down on youtube and I would like to definitely double down. 30sec is an eternity. Drivers are out in 5-15sec. I'm sure 5sec feels like minutes in that situations unless you're unable to exit the car at all for some reason (damage) 30sec is tons of time.

I will agree that SxSs are fire magnets but that kind of comes with the territory considering how the major components in those vehicles are laid out.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

I get anxiety for others when I see the ABC powder stuck to everything. It’s better than burned to the ground or dead.
Seeing the SEMA car get hosed down in powder for a small fire would piss me off as the owner. A clean or cleaner agent can save a lot of money and headache if it can do the job before a powder ABC is needed.
The AFFF ban is sad to see. I finally found some more of the Sparco 2L AFFF in stock. They were out of stock for the longest time. Most likely I’ll have three of those on the buggy. I also have a HalGuard and Halotron but rather leave those at home for family use before the wife and kids hose down the house with ABC power because the toaster burned some crumbs.

 

[ridered3]

WHITE RHINO that’s not a derail at all and a great example of what a real world scenario would be for trail rigs or race vehicles. After all, this is a discussion of extinguishers and suppression systems.

Great points made about attacking/accessing the source of the flames, not just the flames shown in the fireball all around the fire too.

 

[Opiebennett]

I was just going to drop it but since you're pushing the issue I went and watched half a dozen race cars burn down on youtube and I would like to definitely double down. 30sec is an eternity. Drivers are out in 5-15sec. I'm sure 5sec feels like minutes in that situations unless you're unable to exit the car at all for some reason (damage) 30sec is tons of time.

Unless you're unconscious... and the crash took 20 of those seconds away before you came too...

I have been in multiple fires in a 4400. Engulfed, unconscious waking up, fire coming up through the cracks at me, getting out in flames. 3 separate and different scenarios.

 

[Poke]

Not to interrupt the clipboard and vest circle jerk but the fire presumably isn't starting in the cabin and 30sec is an eternity.

You can tell who has no experience what so ever.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Unless you're unconscious... and the crash took 20 of those seconds away before you came too...

Yeah that's the thing I'd be most worried about in an off road race environment. On a track they'll have a fire truck on top of you by then.

Trail rig probably shouldn't be wheeling that hard.

At some point you have to draw a line between reasonable preparedness and fear peddling circle jerk and simply make reasonable preparations because money and time are not infinite and going all in on one thing because some fuckwits on the internet told you to will leave you wide open on another and going all in on all the things will leave no time and money for winning.

I've got a big fire extinguisher in the floorboard of my "not for sale gonna build it some day" project and a small one in each daily. Box checked. Good enough. Might add another one to the garage or the front end loader. IDK. If I had a race car I'd consider putting a proper system in it but I don't.

You can tell who has no experience what so ever.

Stop buying chinese seat heaters and clean the pine needles out of your blower motor and maybe your cabin will stop catching on fire. There really isn't/shouldn't be many sources of fire inside the cabin.

 

[94toytruck]

Unless you're unconscious... and the crash took 20 of those seconds away before you came too...

I rolled in a comp in my old trail rig and got knocked out. By the time I was conciousness enough to do anything my rig would've been fully engulfed if it had caught possibly with me inside. I was removed by team members who were on the sides watching and drug out.

30 seconds goes by fast if anything goes wrong. Your upside down, on your side, possibly injured, maybe stuck on something inside the car.

 

[bunk]

So 5 pounders are too hard to package? I dread using a 2.5 pounder again as i still have the image in my head of when one stopped spewing chemical, and then all i saw was fire all around me.