Evan’s 4Runner Stuff

[eacook1]

What gears are you running in the transfer case? Sounds like your having to spool the torque converter to get the truck moving, that causes a lurch and a bouncy ride, lower gears means it will just keep moving at idle.

I am running the stock chain drive case, 2.78 maybe? 5.29s in the axles and a 5 speed, Three pedals baby!!!

 

[Stingray]

I forgot your Coils in the rear, so different animal all together,

 

[Stingray]

I am running the stock chain drive case, 2.78 maybe? 5.29s in the axles and a 5 speed, Three pedals baby!!!

ok, that's a struggle. looks like 2.57, a lower gear is a game changer.

 

[eacook1]

Yeah, I really need a dual case setup or single 4.7. When I get all 4 tires climbing any serious ledges I have to slip the clutch so hard to get it to climb, otherwise it just doesn’t have the power.

 

[J.Cole]

What gears are you running in the transfer case? Sounds like your having to spool the torque converter to get the truck moving, that causes a lurch and a bouncy ride, lower gears means it will just keep moving at idle.

x2 on this. I wheeled the stock case for a few months and hated it. Just like in your video, It was burn the clutch to get up and over an obstacle to come to a complete stop once over. Then repeat that process all the way through the technical spots. I put a single 4.7 case and thought it was the best money i ever spent. Wheeled the single 4.7 case for 5 years and then put dual cases with 4.7s in the rear, and again thought it was the best upgrade ever. Makes it to where you can cruise through technical spots at idle without stopping. It might help a touch on the bouncy part since you would be going slower / rolling over the rocks instead of a jump up.

As for the power steering, I never had good luck with the stock 3.0 pump. I think i went through 3 or 4 of them before I put a basic parts store TC style pump i modded. That worked okay for a while then it started making noise. I now have a PSC TC pump on and haven't had a problem with it in the 2 years of running it.

 

[eacook1]

Wheeled the single 4.7 case for 5 years and then put dual cases with 4.7s in the rear, and again thought it was the best upgrade ever.

So in the 5 years, how often was a single 4.7 not low enough gearing?

Unfortunately my wad is spent to get the 4Runner to where it is. I won’t be upgrading t-cases anytime soon unless someone has one for a smoking deal.

As for the power steering, I never had good luck with the stock 3.0 pump. I think i went through 3 or 4 of them before I put a basic parts store TC style pump i modded. That worked okay for a while then it started making noise. I now have a PSC TC pump on and haven't had a problem with it in the 2 years of running it.

What is a TC pump?

 

[Stingray]

x2 on this. I wheeled the stock case for a few months and hated it. Just like in your video, It was burn the clutch to get up and over an obstacle to come to a complete stop once over. Then repeat that process all the way through the technical spots. I put a single 4.7 case and thought it was the best money i ever spent. Wheeled the single 4.7 case for 5 years and then put dual cases with 4.7s in the rear, and again thought it was the best upgrade ever. Makes it to where you can cruise through technical spots at idle without stopping. It might help a touch on the bouncy part since you would be going slower / rolling over the rocks instead of a jump up.

As for the power steering, I never had good luck with the stock 3.0 pump. I think i went through 3 or 4 of them before I put a basic parts store TC style pump i modded. That worked okay for a while then it started making noise. I now have a PSC TC pump on and haven't had a problem with it in the 2 years of running it.

Dual cases in my manual is usually both cases in, and a third gear start at idle. sometimes second, and it rarely stalls, dual cases in my auto its 4.7 and I lock the auto in second gear, the converter is spun up enough so i don't need any throttle to crawl. I.\'ve never used both cases with the auto other than to show I have it.

Trail riding it's 2.28 and usually second or third, again it keeps the trans/converter spun up better. and helps trans temps.


With where you sit now, duals would be an awesome upgrade, and be night and day difference.

 

[Stingray]

So in the 5 years, how often was a single 4.7 not low enough gearing?

Unfortunately my wad is spent to get the 4Runner to where it is. I won’t be upgrading t-cases anytime soon unless someone has one for a smoking deal.


What is a TC pump?

the jump to a 4.7 case with a manual is so much less stress on the truck, from where you are to that will be like a new truck.
and you can wheel that for a long time, I ran just a 4.7 in my manual a couple of years and went everywhere, then go to duals, and it's like the jump to 4.7's, everything gets smoother, it gives you like 50 gear options.

Imagine climbing over some of those obstacles and never touching the clutch,

 

[cchambers13]

the jump to a 4.7 case with a manual is so much less stress on the truck, from where you are to that will be like a new truck.
and you can wheel that for a long time, I ran just a 4.7 in my manual a couple of years and went everywhere, then go to duals, and it's like the jump to 4.7's, everything gets smoother, it gives you like 50 gear options.

X2 ran single chain drive case for a while, was fine doing "trails" but not for rocks. Threw in dual inchworm 2.28 gear drive cases with 23 spline inputs and it was a whole new world. The 3.0 torque makes up for gearing some. My duals have always ran warm on the highway... but have been fine for 30k miles aside from puking some oil.

On 35s dual stock cases were fine for east coast crawling. On 37s... im thinking about 4.7s in the rear case but have never had the feeling it wasn't low enough to make an obstacle. Just not low enough to idle up it, probably a waste. But I wheel with alot of lower geared dual case trucks so that single lug slipping by kind of speed is attractive.

But I never really had to worry about undercuts since you could feel the torque up when wedged and the tire usually broke traction. With those super crawly setups its something to keep in mind.

NW Fab chain drive doubler setup is pretty intriguing though. Dual 2.57s would be fine for a full body trail rig in my opinion and probably run cooler on highway runs.

 

[eacook1]

NW Fab chain drive doubler setup is pretty intriguing though. Dual 2.57s would be fine for a full body trail rig in my opinion and probably run cooler on highway runs.

I’ve been eyeballing their setup. I think right now this is what I will be saving for.

 

[eacook1]

My duals have always ran warm on the highway... but have been fine for 30k miles aside from puking some oil.

I’m ignorant regarding dual cases. When your running down the highway you have both cases in 2H? Is it common for dual cases the overheat?

 

[cchambers13]

I’m ignorant regarding dual cases. When your running down the highway you have both cases in 2H? Is it common for dual cases the overheat?

Some do some don't, I just got lucky I guess.

They haven't burnt seals or spit bearings out yet but they are noticeably hot compared to a single chain or gear case.

Inchworm adapter is different than others since the range box is sealed from the rear case. Keeps oil in the range box on climbs but might have something to do with it.

It still gets 17mpg on the highway so the duals didn't add much drag or anything.

 

[Stingray]

I’m ignorant regarding dual cases. When your running down the highway you have both cases in 2H? Is it common for dual cases the overheat?

I have two trucks, one auto and one manual, Both are running first gen gear driven dual cases.

Both trucks generate some heat, but in high range they are like two separate trucks both in high, one case does not cause the second to run any faster. The dual section is really just the high low section of a transfer case separated from the 4wd section(2.28) with an adapter mated to a stock case behind it ( gears swapped to 4.7 it lessens the strain on the driveline). They do share oil, but I've never had an issue starving the front box.

And the only time I get any real heat is when I'm trail riding at 20-30 MPH with one case engaged in low for long periods.

What I do get with the Auto is a large amount of backlash shifting from forward to reverse, just because I have two manual transmissions mated to the back of an auto.

Manual trans and transfer cases all use the same oil, auto trans runs ATF with a seal on the output shaft into the duals, that run gear oil.

I know I ramble, But hope some of that helps.

 

[J.Cole]

So in the 5 years, how often was a single 4.7 not low enough gearing?

Unfortunately my wad is spent to get the 4Runner to where it is. I won’t be upgrading t-cases anytime soon unless someone has one for a smoking deal.


What is a TC pump?

Generally speaking, no I didn't ever need lower gearing to get where i wanted to go. Even now with the dual cases whenever I use double low, its usually just because its there and i have the option to use it, not that i need to use it. I like having the gearing options but thats just me. Some people like just a single 4.7 case for simplicity.


A TC pump is just a style of power steering pump. Its the same style that Trail Gear and PSC sell.

 

[rockota]

So in the 5 years, how often was a single 4.7 not low enough gearing?

this is one of those questions that is best answered with "you'll know the answer when you have lower gears to use." I.E. - when you have more options, you'll find yourself using them more.

 

[J.Cole]

this is one of those questions that is best answered with "you'll know the answer when you have lower gears to use." I.E. - when you have more options, you'll find yourself using them more.

I agree with this 100%

 

[Stingray]

If you have it you'll use it. It more than doubles your gear selections. (Duals)

A single case with lower gears saves all the drivetrain from undo stress, and smooths out your three pedal action.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I’ve been eyeballing their setup. I think right now this is what I will be saving for.

I don't think I'd do dual chain drives personally. Not with a manual Toyota. Math says you'd be about 133:1. I liked being closer to 175:1, but would always use 1st gear low low, even when it was 233:1 and 35s. Having creepy crawly gears is pretty nice when you're trying not to bang up a big body like these.

I think you might be low enough, but if not, you're kinda screwed without buying a whole new box.

The beauty of that box is you can use it as an adapter to a different tcase. You could go to a standard gear drive Toyota case. Which opens up the opportunity to go with the 4.7 rear case if you wish. Or you could just go straight to a D300 or atlas.

 

[J.Cole]

I don't think I'd do dual chain drives personally. Not with a manual Toyota. Math says you'd be about 133:1. I liked being closer to 175:1, but would always use 1st gear low low, even when it was 233:1 and 35s. Having creepy crawly gears is pretty nice when you're trying not to bang up a big body like these.

I think you might be low enough, but if not, you're kinda screwed without buying a whole new box.

The beauty of that box is you can use it as an adapter to a different tcase. You could go to a standard gear drive Toyota case. Which opens up the opportunity to go with the 4.7 rear case if you wish. Or you could just go straight to a D300 or atlas.

Very well said. I wanted to say that I wouldn’t go that route either but couldn’t word it without it just sounding like “that route is dumb” 😂

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Very well said. I wanted to say that I wouldn’t go that route either but couldn’t word it without it just sounding like “that route is dumb” 😂

To be fair, I don't know much about the early chain drive cases. Not sure how mu h they have in common with the later ones.

I've looked at the exact same thing for my 3rd gen 4runner. The difference is that I have more options being driver drop. So I could go with a newer chain drive case. I also don't need super super low gears with the auto and 3.4.

 

[rockota]

I don't think I'd do dual chain drives personally. Not with a manual Toyota. Math says you'd be about 133:1. I liked being closer to 175:1, but would always use 1st gear low low, even when it was 233:1 and 35s. Having creepy crawly gears is pretty nice when you're trying not to bang up a big body like these.

I think you might be low enough, but if not, you're kinda screwed without buying a whole new box.

The beauty of that box is you can use it as an adapter to a different tcase. You could go to a standard gear drive Toyota case. Which opens up the opportunity to go with the 4.7 rear case if you wish. Or you could just go straight to a D300 or atlas.

I wasn’t aware there was a dual chain case option??

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I wasn’t aware there was a dual chain case option??

You been under a rock?

Eco-Crawler

Eco-Crawler - The easiest & strongest gear box for your Toyota 4x4. Current Eco-Crawler Lead Time is 8-10 Weeks At Northwest Fabworks we set out to produce products our customers are as proud to own as we are to make them. Since 2005 we have poured our passion for manufacturing into the 4x4...

northwestfab.com

 

[rockota]

You been under a rock?

Eco-Crawler

Eco-Crawler - The easiest & strongest gear box for your Toyota 4x4. Current Eco-Crawler Lead Time is 8-10 Weeks At Northwest Fabworks we set out to produce products our customers are as proud to own as we are to make them. Since 2005 we have poured our passion for manufacturing into the 4x4...

northwestfab.com

I almost said “except nwf “ and didn’t at the last minute.

My bad. Dammit.

 

[eacook1]

I don't think I'd do dual chain drives personally. Not with a manual Toyota. Math says you'd be about 133:1. I liked being closer to 175:1, but would always use 1st gear low low, even when it was 233:1 and 35s. Having creepy crawly gears is pretty nice when you're trying not to bang up a big body like these.

I think you might be low enough, but if not, you're kinda screwed without buying a whole new box.

All good points, well taken.

Unfortunately there is no way I can afford nearly 4k for a newly built dual setup and adapter for my v6. (Trail gear prices). That’s nearly double what the northwest fabs setup would cost.

The beauty of that box is you can use it as an adapter to a different tcase. You could go to a standard gear drive Toyota case. Which opens up the opportunity to go with the 4.7 rear case if you wish. Or you could just go straight to a D300 or atlas.

I think your right in that there setup works with many different t-cases, but the way I understand it is they are built for a specific case. No adapters. So once I choose a VF1 case which is what I have and are a dime a dozen, it only works with that case. I could be wrong.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

All good points, well taken.

Unfortunately there is no way I can afford nearly 4k for a newly built dual setup and adapter for my v6. (Trail gear prices). That’s nearly double what the northwest fabs setup would cost.

$4k is ridiculous, I'm pretty sure my buddy paid less than that for his 4 speed atlas and Toyota adapter.

I think your right in that there setup works with many different t-cases, but the way I understand it is they are built for a specific case. No adapters. So once I choose a VF1 case which is what I have and are a dime a dozen, it only works with that case. I could be wrong.

I think you are correct.

I'd think a gear drive rear case would be a good fit for your rig. It would need to have a 23 spline input, but could otherwise be stock. Although I know donors are getting hard to find and expensive.

Is the vf1 pretty tough like the later chain drives?

 

[eacook1]

$4k is ridiculous, I'm pretty sure my buddy paid less than that for his 4 speed atlas and Toyota adapter.



I think you are correct.

I'd think a gear drive rear case would be a good fit for your rig. It would need to have a 23 spline input, but could otherwise be stock. Although I know donors are getting hard to find and expensive.

Is the vf1 pretty tough like the later chain drives?

I really don’t know anything about the strength of any of these cases. I suppose I should check into that.

Right now cost is a major factor. If I get the NWF case ($1700) for a rear RF1A, I still have to buy the rear case. Right now there are two stock cases local. One for $300, one for $550. Looks like 4.7 gear kits are $700 from marlin.

VF1 cases at my local pick a part are $186. There’s 8 of them right now.

Looks like no matter what I’m spending at least 2k.

Anyone have an extra case laying around?

I did find two sets of duals. One here and one local. 2k and $2300 respectively, I still need a $500 adapter to mate to my R150F

Hmmm, my wife isn’t gonna fall for any if this!

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I really don’t know anything about the strength of any of these cases. I suppose I should check into that.

Right now cost is a major factor. If I get the NWF case ($1700) for a rear RF1A, I still have to buy the rear case. Right now there are two stock cases local. One for $300, one for $550. Looks like 4.7 gear kits are $700 from marlin.

VF1 cases at my local pick a part are $186. There’s 8 of them right now.

Looks like no matter what I’m spending at least 2k.

Anyone have an extra case laying around?

I did find two sets of duals. One here and one local. 2k and $2300 respectively, I still need a $500 adapter to mate to my R150F

Hmmm, my wife isn’t gonna fall for any if this!

You don't need the 4.7 right away, although I get doing it all at once. You'll have to tear it apart for a 23 spline input anyway.

I might have some stuff you'd be interested in. If I can find a dodge 205 or D300

 

[eacook1]

Been awhile since I have done any fun work on the 4Runner. I have had it out a few times and it seems to be working great except for the lack of a dual case setup.

Went to our local mountains during the last storm. We found up to 3 feet of snow in some areas, my buddy with 32s in the Grand Cherokee was getting stuck every couple hundred feet. I broke trail most of the time and pretty much motored through everything without issue until here. Felt like I was going to slide right off the trail. The road was closed just up ahead so we turned around here.

I realized on this day what one of my next projects need to be. I am going to start researching different front hub/brake setups and I am going to get rid of the Trail Gear studless hubs. Installing the drive pucks in a blizzard, in 20 degree weather is a PITA. Plus I find trails just driving around sometimes and I am hesitant to explore because I don't want to have to put the pucks in if I need 4WD for just a few minutes.

Thinking modified IFS hubs but want to explore the different brake options. You guys have any input?

 

[McAustin]

Thinking modified IFS hubs but want to explore the different brake options. You guys have any input?

Front Range has a disk brake bracket kit if you are looking to get bigger brakes. You have to machine the O.D. of the wheel mounting flange so that the rotor will slip over. You can run 1st gen Tundra brake setup which the caliper is pretty big compared to what is on there now. If you do not care about bigger brakes I have the IFS wheel hub machined down with Tacoma rotors and 2nd gen 4runner V6 Calipers mounted on the outside of the stock knuckle ears.

 

[eacook1]

After more research and talking to McAustin I am going to go IFS hubs machined down, Tacoma rotors and my current V6 calipers.

In the near future, not sure exactly when, I will have a pair of Trail Gear Studless hubs for sale. Brand new everything in them, bearings seals wheel studs and slotted and drilled rotors. I may even sell the second set of calipers I have.