Eco Deisel swap prep?

NDCjeepsmith

Red Skull
Joined
Dec 8, 2021
Messages
926
Loc
SW Mo
I really was impressed with the EcoD in my brother's gladiator so I'm considering that for my next build.

Anyone slapped one in an LJ or a JK?

Worth it or no? I was planning an LS in my LJ but I also really want to build a JKL.

My brother is in market for an LJ or JK also and wants an LS so I may just do the opposite of him which ever route he goes.

I know Gen 1s had issues but I'd like to stay away from any DEF crap and the less smog **** to deal with the better.

Any experience or thoughts to share?
 
The first gen is a different motor than the newer 2nd (actually 3rd) gen motor in the Gladiator you experienced. They are not at all equivalent, with 80% parts differing. The older motor is the VM Motori L630. It was made by a different company that was later integrated into Fiat, called VM. VM was not a very good company. They made stuff with poor build quality and somewhat questionable Italian bleeding-edge engineering.

Note that the old 1st gen motor has emissions systems that are crap and go wrong frequently... even without DEF being required. I would rather have a DEF system that worked than a non-DEF EGR computerized system that breaks frequently and is expensive to fix and difficult and illegal to bypass.

Due to the emissions, the driveability of the older motor is poor without a tune. It doesn't perform the same in real life as the FIAT motor in the Gladiator you rode in. It is more like having an on/off switch instead of a throttle-- whereas the FIAT motor has actual throttle response. Tunes fix this somewhat, but even tuned it is not as responsive as the newer FIAT engine is stock. One guy I know with the older tuned eco-diesel described it as a "toy" compared to the test ride he took in a RAM with the new engine.

The parts cost and availability are horrid. You will wait for parts from the 2 main US Fiat warehouses on a good day. On a bad day, it is back-ordered from Italy and your ETA is two months. You are not getting anything more than an oil filter at the local ONapaZone, it is dealer only. You will need a "special tool" to work on just about anything on a VM diesel. Most independent diesel mechanics hate these things because they are difficult to work on and require expensive vehicle specific tooling that they don't want to buy to support the 2 of these things driving around their major city. Parts cost are insane, even compared to typical medium duty commercial diesel engine costs.

If you are dead set on a modern diesel, look at the Cummins 2.8 crate motor, a TDI, a Benz, or the new Fiat motor from a wreck-- and buy the whole wreck and not just the engine. Don't bother with anything else made by VM. This includes the "Duramax" re-badged eco-diesel they put in the Chevy Colorado's.

If you are not dead set on a modern diesel, please consider older and industrial diesel engines instead. The industrial engines have much better reliability and are more simple to swap and repair, but have less power stock and more noise and heavy. If that is not your bag and you care only about power, then just go with whatever gasser swap you are partial to and you will save money and avoid many headaches.
 
Thank you Pablo for all that. Sounds like I'm either looking for an EcoD part out from copart or sticking with LS.

I'm not familiar with the 2.8 but what is its charistics compared to the fiat ecoD? Weight and power wise?

I wasn't considering the 2.8 just because it being a smaller 4 banger
 
2022 ecodiesel specs, not bad.

Engine3,0 l V6
Power260 hp @ 3,600 rpm (194 kW)
Torque442 lb·ft @ 1,400 – 2,800 rpm (599 N·m)

R2.8

Horsepower161 hp120 kW
Torque310 lb-ft*420 N•m

Obviously considerably less, but it would probably work out pretty similar power to weight with a much lighter LJ.

Depending on use, a V8 may just be a better fit. I can't imagine how much an ecodiesel donor would cost.
 
Cummins 2.8:

Billed at 160 Horsey-ma-ponies and 310 torques and weighing in at 503 pounds.
Cummins says the 2.8 is 28.3 in (h) x 25 in (w) x 25.1 in (d).

From memory, the Cummins was uprated to 190 HP at some point, but I don't see that on the site anymore. So probably my bad memory.

Last Fiatlser 3.0's:

Billed at 240-260 horsies and 420-480 torques, weights about the same at 505 pounds.
I can't find measurements on the Fiatsler, but it is a v-6, so figure wider for sure and a tad less tall and long.

The Cummins power rating is conservative, and the peak RPM is less than the Fiatsler. You will get around 190 HP and 340 torques out of the 2.8 tuned with no other "upgrades", but you loose warranty when you tune. Some of the HP increase in the Fiatsler comes from the higher redline (4800 to 5800 rpm in the Fiatsler compared to 4200ish in the 2.8, from my memory). In day-to-day driving, that HP increase isn't noticeable and you should go by the torque numbers for a more accurate comparison of available "seat of the pants" power between the two.

The 2.8 is plenty of power for an LJ, it will be a little bit pokey in a built-up fat assed 4-door JK, but with a manual the fuel economy would be as good as it is gonna get for that vehicle. It would probably still drive better than the stock minivan engine in the earlier JK's.
 
2020 was the beginning of model year for the fiat made? Only one wrangler on copart now. They the same across board between models? Even Ram?
 
Cummins 2.8:

Billed at 160 Horsey-ma-ponies and 310 torques and weighing in at 503 pounds.
Cummins says the 2.8 is 28.3 in (h) x 25 in (w) x 25.1 in (d).

So it's basically a bone stock 300 + a 4bbl but 12" shorter and infinitely more expensive. :laughing:
 
Hard to get a Cummins R2.8L right now.

I want one to hook up to a 6L80E.
 
So it's basically a bone stock 300 + a 4bbl but 12" shorter and infinitely more expensive. :laughing:

The 300 will last longer too... but gets worse mileage. But gas is cheaper than evil diesel now... So its unlikely you will ever break even on the fuel mileage front either.
 
The 300 will last longer too... but gets worse mileage. But gas is cheaper than evil diesel now... So its unlikely you will ever break even on the fuel mileage front either.
I don't expect big gains but where I'm at diesel is on average $1 more per gallon. My LJ on stock stuff and shoes gets at best 14mpg. The EcoD gladiator on 37s got 19 regularly. 22 - 24 in stock trim.

I think that's a check in the pros column.
 
I don't expect big gains but where I'm at diesel is on average $1 more per gallon. My LJ on stock stuff and shoes gets at best 14mpg. The EcoD gladiator on 37s got 19 regularly. 22 - 24 in stock trim.

I think that's a check in the pros column.

If you're doing it to save money on fuel, it will never happen.

As much as it's against the mantra of this site, if you really want an ecodiesel jeep, you're best bet is to buy one that it came in.
 
Don't compare your diesel swap to stock powertrain mileage, compare it to the LS you are also thinking about with an overdrive transmission of your choice. I would expect the LS gets better mileage than the older inline and minivan 6's-- if geared right.
 
Agreed. And I'm not wanting it to save on anything. I'm a V8 guy through and through but I'm starting to plan my next build and I want to do something different and push myself into unknown/uncomfortable territories to expand my knowledge.
 
So, Pablo, the resident ecoD expert as I see it... what exactly is the new model? I've seen many articles explaining the 20 MY brings back a new diesel after a year hiatus.. which sounds like it wasn't offered in MY 19.

BUT I see 2019 diesel 1500s. Are they late runs that surprisingly got a MY 20 diesel? Or is the 20+ 1500/JL/JT the only new model ecoD that should be looked for as a donor?

Watched a 2019 1500 diesel go for $4100 today so that's promising I it pans out.
 
As much as it's against the mantra of this site, if you really want an ecodiesel jeep, you're best bet is to buy one that it came in.

That route is going to have the least amount of headaches associated with it.

Not sure how much the factory diesel talks to the CanBus, but getting a non factory one to talk to it may be problematic. I'd think it's no different than installing an LS.
 
I haven't looked into any of the wiring aspects but was thinking there's gotta be a way like LS's to pair down a computer to run just the motor and trans. Would be running after market gauges, no abs/traction crap or any of those nannies...

But yes I'll be looking fr a complete vehicle and taking all that's necessary off it
 
That route is going to have the least amount of headaches associated with it.

Not sure how much the factory diesel talks to the CanBus, but getting a non factory one to talk to it may be problematic. I'd think it's no different than installing an LS.

Except ls has been done a million times.

I'd also venture mid 00s LS is much easier to wire up than a 2020 diesel with all the emissions bs.
 
Last thing I would ever want in an offroad rig that may end up getting fuel from a podunk mountain filling station that gets replenished every 6 months...

Is a modern diesel engine. **** to the no. Breathe too heavily while filling and that common rail system pushing a couple thousand bar ****s right off. Maybe the R2.8, but my trust of the D-cell is at an all time low.

Gen III small block it, don't look back. Wanna be different-ish? Hemi instead, Holley has a full management suite for it, and the stock **** is sorta compatible with LJ Jeep ****. Wanna be completely unique? Dunno, 5.0 Ford? Honda J35?

Hrprs-wise on the Italian diesel and the R2.8: doubt you'll notice a difference unless you're wooding it on an onramp and care, or if you're trying to drive it in the sand.
 
Don't compare your diesel swap to stock powertrain mileage, compare it to the LS you are also thinking about with an overdrive transmission of your choice. I would expect the LS gets better mileage than the older inline and minivan 6's-- if geared right.
This isn’t exactly what you were comparing, but Fred W did fuel mileage in 4.0 TJ, LS TJ, and R2.8 TJ and the LS beat the 4.0. R2.8 beat the LS.
 
The Gen V LT direct injected gas stuff is still 'new' and 'different' but with some new lifters and lifter trays and a tune to delete the active fuel management system, they seem to be gaining in the V8 swap land.
 
I'm so pissed I passed on one of those with a 4x4 10 spd attached to it with less than 20k on the clock for $4800...

I bought a near creampuff 96 powerstroke instead for 6k
 
The Gen V LT direct injected gas stuff is still 'new' and 'different' but with some new lifters and lifter trays and a tune to delete the active fuel management system, they seem to be gaining in the V8 swap land.
Yep. AFM is guaran-****ing-teed to kill a Gen V eventually. Not if, when.

At this point, any LS or later SBC is going to need the heads pulled to swap lifters and trays (and AFM if Gen IV+). ****ing plastic is the only thing keeping the lifter from turning and lathing the cam back to a circle and sending shavings everywhere.
 
Top Back Refresh