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Dust Buggy
- Thread starter HYDRODYNAMIC
- Start date
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
I'm not sure in what context you are stating that? Best guess is the engine would have to be warming up or off or not circulating coolant to keep the temps that low.
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
The air filter and mass air flow sensor are in.
More and more racers are dumping their small K&N filters for high tech filtration because larger filters can hold more dust before dropping CFM and they keep the dirt out of the engines. The filter housing is a Fleetguard OptiAir 1000 with a Primary and Secondary filter and a 4.5" outlet. It is rated at 507 CFM when only running the Primary filter and 411 CFM when running both the Primary and Secondary. I run both filters for maximum filtration. Keep in mind these are industrial ratings for engines running in dusty and silty conditions and still providing air flow and dirt holding capacity. The integral precleaning housing removes 80% of particles before reaching the filter.
To calculate CFM for a engine: 366CID x 5500RPM x .80VE / 3456 = 465CFM
Dirt holding capacity for the primary filter is 9.7lbs while still flowing 507CFM. With 80% precleaner efficiency, the filter assembly will have processed 48.5lbs of dirt between filter changes.
The mass air flow sensor ducting is fabricated 4" stainless steel tubing that necks down to the stock MAF housing inside diameter so that the air velocity is measured correctly and then necks back up to the 4" before going into the throttle body. The duct is also the correct length so that the air is flowing uniformly past the sensor for an accurate air speed measurement. I noticed a big performance increase when going from a straight 4" ID tube to the smaller correct ID since the engine was measuring air correctly.
More and more racers are dumping their small K&N filters for high tech filtration because larger filters can hold more dust before dropping CFM and they keep the dirt out of the engines. The filter housing is a Fleetguard OptiAir 1000 with a Primary and Secondary filter and a 4.5" outlet. It is rated at 507 CFM when only running the Primary filter and 411 CFM when running both the Primary and Secondary. I run both filters for maximum filtration. Keep in mind these are industrial ratings for engines running in dusty and silty conditions and still providing air flow and dirt holding capacity. The integral precleaning housing removes 80% of particles before reaching the filter.
To calculate CFM for a engine: 366CID x 5500RPM x .80VE / 3456 = 465CFM
Dirt holding capacity for the primary filter is 9.7lbs while still flowing 507CFM. With 80% precleaner efficiency, the filter assembly will have processed 48.5lbs of dirt between filter changes.
The mass air flow sensor ducting is fabricated 4" stainless steel tubing that necks down to the stock MAF housing inside diameter so that the air velocity is measured correctly and then necks back up to the 4" before going into the throttle body. The duct is also the correct length so that the air is flowing uniformly past the sensor for an accurate air speed measurement. I noticed a big performance increase when going from a straight 4" ID tube to the smaller correct ID since the engine was measuring air correctly.
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wvracer821
Well-known member
That intake setup is really nice. I work around a lot of equipment and I have always wondered about using industrial style filtration but I never seemed to dig deep enough into the subject to find a setup that would work. thanks for sharing the tech
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
I first learned about industrial filtration while working on heavy equipment and building harvesters, all used off road in soft soil, with saw dust and leaves in the air. The amount of air consumption and filtration that a supercharged 2 cycle diesel uses is insane. The radiators were just as difficult to keep clean.
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
Here are some brake calculations for future reference.
Two qty one sided 2-Piston calipers with 1.75" dia. pistons = 9.6 sq. in. effective area per axle.
Two qty dual sided 4-piston calipers with 1.75" dia. pistons = 9.6 sq. in. effective area per axle.
Recommended working pressure 1200 PSI.
75 lbs foot force on a 7:1 pedal = 1200 PSI with one qty 3/4" master cylinder.
150 lbs foot force on a 7:1 pedal = 1200 PSI with two qty 3/4" master cylinders, one per axle.
Master Cylinder Displacement (1.25" Stroke) = 0.75 cubic in. per axle
1200 PSI x 4.8 sq. in. piston area on each caliper = 5,760 lbs clamping force x .375 friction coefficient = 2160 lbs on half of rotor dia. 5.59" = 12,074 in. lbs. / half of tire dia. 19" = 635 lbs per tire
2 tires = 1270 lbs of total braking force front axle
1200 PSI x 5.52 sq. in. piston area on each caliper = 6624 lbs clamping force x .375 friction coefficient = 2484 lbs on half of rotor dia. 5.59" = 13,885 in. lbs. / half of tire dia. 19" = 730 lbs per tire
2 tires = 1461 lbs of total braking force rear axle
Average total braking 150 lbs input = 2731 lbs
1.25" Master cylinder travel x 7:1 pedal ratio = 8.75" of foot travel
Not pushing through the brakes at idle in low gear is a torque converter, gearing, and leg strength/comfort equation.
The average adult male can exert roughly 300 pounds of force (maximum) with one leg.
Wilwood says not to exceed 1200 psi on their calipers. This calculated with cyclic rate failure in mind. Destructive testing by a college FSAE report shows a single max failure pressure to be 5000 psi.
With a 7:1 pedal and 3/4" master cylinder and 300 lbs at the foot = 2378 PSI which is over Wilwood rating but below hydroboost and below the failure point.
Hydroboost valves can produce around 2000 psi which is well over the 1200 psi rating.
These calcs are for 1.75" dia. 4 piston or 2 single sided pistons = 4.8 sq. in. which is a common size.
F250 2000 rear calipers are 1.75" dia = 4.8 sq. in. which I am using in the front.
F250 2005 rear calipers are 1.875" dia = 5.52 sq. in. which I am using in the rear.
Many Wilwoods four pistons go up to 4.8" sq. in.
Wilwoods AT6 is their off road race caliper at 5.4 sq. in.
GM one ton single sided pistons are 2.375" dia. = 4.43 sq. in.
Two qty one sided 2-Piston calipers with 1.75" dia. pistons = 9.6 sq. in. effective area per axle.
Two qty dual sided 4-piston calipers with 1.75" dia. pistons = 9.6 sq. in. effective area per axle.
Recommended working pressure 1200 PSI.
75 lbs foot force on a 7:1 pedal = 1200 PSI with one qty 3/4" master cylinder.
150 lbs foot force on a 7:1 pedal = 1200 PSI with two qty 3/4" master cylinders, one per axle.
Master Cylinder Displacement (1.25" Stroke) = 0.75 cubic in. per axle
1200 PSI x 4.8 sq. in. piston area on each caliper = 5,760 lbs clamping force x .375 friction coefficient = 2160 lbs on half of rotor dia. 5.59" = 12,074 in. lbs. / half of tire dia. 19" = 635 lbs per tire
2 tires = 1270 lbs of total braking force front axle
1200 PSI x 5.52 sq. in. piston area on each caliper = 6624 lbs clamping force x .375 friction coefficient = 2484 lbs on half of rotor dia. 5.59" = 13,885 in. lbs. / half of tire dia. 19" = 730 lbs per tire
2 tires = 1461 lbs of total braking force rear axle
Average total braking 150 lbs input = 2731 lbs
1.25" Master cylinder travel x 7:1 pedal ratio = 8.75" of foot travel
Not pushing through the brakes at idle in low gear is a torque converter, gearing, and leg strength/comfort equation.
The average adult male can exert roughly 300 pounds of force (maximum) with one leg.
Wilwood says not to exceed 1200 psi on their calipers. This calculated with cyclic rate failure in mind. Destructive testing by a college FSAE report shows a single max failure pressure to be 5000 psi.
With a 7:1 pedal and 3/4" master cylinder and 300 lbs at the foot = 2378 PSI which is over Wilwood rating but below hydroboost and below the failure point.
Hydroboost valves can produce around 2000 psi which is well over the 1200 psi rating.
These calcs are for 1.75" dia. 4 piston or 2 single sided pistons = 4.8 sq. in. which is a common size.
F250 2000 rear calipers are 1.75" dia = 4.8 sq. in. which I am using in the front.
F250 2005 rear calipers are 1.875" dia = 5.52 sq. in. which I am using in the rear.
Many Wilwoods four pistons go up to 4.8" sq. in.
Wilwoods AT6 is their off road race caliper at 5.4 sq. in.
GM one ton single sided pistons are 2.375" dia. = 4.43 sq. in.
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Jeffh555
Red Skull Member
I assume you saw this performance increase in another application, right? Is that not something that a tuner can fix in software?
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
The MAF tube and engine was used in my old buggy. 208 Motorsports tuned the computer, but it was basically a stock tune from what I was told. He did not tune to run the larger MAF tube. I am not sure what it would take tuning wise to make the change. It was easier for me to make the correct tube than try to get the computer retuned.
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
Transmission cooler, shroud, and spal brushless fan are mounted with vibration dampeners to protect the cooler from flexing of the chassis and thermal expansion.
Also in are the Rigid Q’s. Some may ask why are you putting in lights already. Light location and ergonomics is just as important as mounting a seat or steering wheel. Beam angle, coverage, glare, and flashback can all be optimized when there is room to fit the lights rather than wait till everything else is in and then figure out there is not a good place left to put them.
Mounted some armor to protect the rear mounted radiator. Also started on the floor. My 4 year old calls it the “ground” and now has something to march around on while he drinks Gatorade and watches me work.
Also in are the Rigid Q’s. Some may ask why are you putting in lights already. Light location and ergonomics is just as important as mounting a seat or steering wheel. Beam angle, coverage, glare, and flashback can all be optimized when there is room to fit the lights rather than wait till everything else is in and then figure out there is not a good place left to put them.
Mounted some armor to protect the rear mounted radiator. Also started on the floor. My 4 year old calls it the “ground” and now has something to march around on while he drinks Gatorade and watches me work.
I hesitate asking because this has been so well thought out ......... but that winch doesn't cast shadows with the lights right behind it?
WaterH
Well-known member
I notice you have two alternators. Is there any problems associated with this?
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
..... but that winch doesn't cast shadows with the lights right behind it?
From straight ahead nothing blocks the top 10/20 degree beam. The bottom 20 degree beam will aim to the side to spread the beam coverage and also miss the lower tube that angles upward. I wanted to keep them pulled in as tight as possible to avoid hits on rocks. I might add some small tube deflectors just over the top light as rock sliders.
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
I had the same dual alternators on the old buggy. One is a one wire and other is a stock computer controlled. Both outputs are wired together. Zero problems. The cooling system can pull up to 115 amps at max output The air compressor can pull 40 amps. So two are needed.
WaterH
Well-known member
Thats cool. I've seen multiple alternators on some of those "super stereo" cars and wondered if there's any special wiring. Have you ever put a current clamp on the outputs to see if they share the load? (As apposed to one is at max and the other only pushing slightly)
Dual alternators are an option on a lot of trucks, not that uncommon.
WaterH
Well-known member
On factory trucks? Never seen that. I might not really understand alternators. Obviously, a spinning alternator can ware out because of friction, but does a alternator ware out because of the amount of power it produces? If the answer is no, than it doesn't matter which altinator in a duel system vehicle takes the major load. But if a higher load wares the alternator out, then it would be better if they shared the load. I'm just not sure how they would do that. (Computer)
Sorry for the hyjack, Hydro.
typically an option, my '99 7.3 powerstroke had dual
CDA 455 II
ANFAQUE2
Yup; my '99.5 PS had that option available when I ordered it.
Ford calls it the 'ambulance option' package.
WaterH
Well-known member
Yea, as I understand an alternator, it senses the voltage. If it senses the voltage at 12.5V, it goes in to major charge. If it senses 13.5 V, it goes into minor charge. If it senses 14.5V, it basically goes to trickle charge. So let's say you had two 120amp alternators and put a 90 amp load on. If the first alternator happens to sense the low voltage quicker, it could start charging rapidly and get the voltage up to 14.5. The second alternator sees that voltage and thinks trickle charge. You can see how the first alternator could be doing all the work. Even if you put a 140 amp load on, the first alternator could go to max charge and the volts drags down to 13.5. Now the second alternator takes up the slack and pushes another 20 amps in. I'm wondering if there's any way to make them work evenly. Or maybe it doesn't even matter.
Also, I might not even understand how they work. I'm betting Hydro does because he's kind of OCD about this kind of stuff.
They self balance pretty well. Your power leads are almost identical length, the loads they see are not different enough to worry about.
On one of the race trucks I used to prep, it had a small 50A one run off the crank, no room for a bigger/another unit. Ran a second 200A unit off the tailshaft. Worked well. As long as you didn't stop for too long.......
On one of the race trucks I used to prep, it had a small 50A one run off the crank, no room for a bigger/another unit. Ran a second 200A unit off the tailshaft. Worked well. As long as you didn't stop for too long.......
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
You are discouraging me from posting a build on here every time you upload pictures on here.
I get discouraged seeing how much still needs to get done, but scrolling though the pages reminds me of what I have checked off the list.
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
I have read so many theories on dual alternators. I have had zero problems with the following:
1 wire Napa truck alt.
Stock 2010 alt. with harness
Alts wired parallel
Dual Yellow Top Optimas wired parallel
120 amps of Spal fans
40 amp air compressor
40 amps of Rigid LED's
My volt meter was usually in the 13-14 volt range. Both alternators must have been running 100% output most of the time to keep up. At idle and low RPMs they would not have been putting out full rated power. If only one was running the system would have drained down. So if one was the primary, it would only be by itself for a short while until the fans or compressor cycled on and ramped up the second alt.
1 wire Napa truck alt.
Stock 2010 alt. with harness
Alts wired parallel
Dual Yellow Top Optimas wired parallel
120 amps of Spal fans
40 amp air compressor
40 amps of Rigid LED's
My volt meter was usually in the 13-14 volt range. Both alternators must have been running 100% output most of the time to keep up. At idle and low RPMs they would not have been putting out full rated power. If only one was running the system would have drained down. So if one was the primary, it would only be by itself for a short while until the fans or compressor cycled on and ramped up the second alt.
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HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
Exhaust is in.
Was planning on dual but after looking at the layout, a single would be cleaner and cooler due to clearance and air flow. The muffler is a 3" Carven and the cat is a Magnaflow 3" high flow cat. The cat is for the smell of CA gas. Whenever I would fire up the old buggy I would always smell like I had been mowing the lawn all day. On the trail when the wind would blow the exhaust, it would smell. Once the cats were on, the smell was gone.
The combination of the cat and muffler are just about perfect for noise. All the harsh rasp is gone and it doesn't have a drone. No ear plugs are needed anymore and you can talk while driving. The engine used to be dual, two mufflers and two cats so I might try to add the second muffler inline if it will fit to get as much noise dampening material as possible. Not sure of the effectiveness of series vs parallel for noise dampening.
This was my first go with V bands and they are awesome. Easy to split runs for installing and allow rotation for finding the perfect angle.
Was planning on dual but after looking at the layout, a single would be cleaner and cooler due to clearance and air flow. The muffler is a 3" Carven and the cat is a Magnaflow 3" high flow cat. The cat is for the smell of CA gas. Whenever I would fire up the old buggy I would always smell like I had been mowing the lawn all day. On the trail when the wind would blow the exhaust, it would smell. Once the cats were on, the smell was gone.
The combination of the cat and muffler are just about perfect for noise. All the harsh rasp is gone and it doesn't have a drone. No ear plugs are needed anymore and you can talk while driving. The engine used to be dual, two mufflers and two cats so I might try to add the second muffler inline if it will fit to get as much noise dampening material as possible. Not sure of the effectiveness of series vs parallel for noise dampening.
This was my first go with V bands and they are awesome. Easy to split runs for installing and allow rotation for finding the perfect angle.
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.... and looking pretty sick.
Seems like that O2 sensor positioned that close to the Y could read some exhaust from the other bank ... or no?
could be a stupid Q ... I've never done anything other than bolt on store bought exhaust manifolds or headers ... so
WaterH
Well-known member
Exhaust looks very clean. I completely agree, you will never be looking back and saying "I wish it was louder".
HYDRODYNAMIC
Rock Stacker
From what I have read, for stockish motors, the amount of mixing that could occur from one bank to the other will not be enough for the computer to register. Some say you could possibly run the two sensors side by side in the same tube. The distance from the last exhaust port to the O2 sensor is very close to stock distance so heat and cylinder mixing should be ideal.
That exhaust system is sexy! Very nice job!
LSxFJ
Toyota dude
Love the build and the attention to detail. I tried running a cat on my ls swapped FJ, it actually smelled worse. I think it needs downstream o2's and catalyst protection enabled to work properly. I didn't wanna wire in another pair of o2's just to see if my theory was right, so i just cut it out. From my experience at work the downstream o2's have a lot more fuel control than most folks thinks, their job is to monitor and protect the catalyst.