Dust Buggy

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

I will be rebuilding the 4L80 soon and am thinking about the torque converter as well. Looks like people prefer around 2500.
For the rebuild kit, I am looking at: https://shop.jakesperformance.com/shop/ols/products/4l80-rebuild-kit-stage-2
I already have the manual: https://shop.jakesperformance.com/shop/ols/products/th400-rebuild-manual

A note about stall from jccarter1 on Hardline Crawlers:
"Ls motors like high rpms and that cam will need 3300 at least to not load up (side note people talk about stall rpm a lot but most don't understand what it actually means. For example just because you have a 3300 stall doesn't mean it won't move until you reach 3300 rpm it means that the converter is applying all fluid pressure at 3300 so in your rig that would mean in high gear high range your converter would slip a lot until you get the rpms up but in low gear low range there isn't as much force required to turn the tires so it will start to pull around 1000-1200 and will be locked up around 2000) hope that makes sense stall rpm is a special type of vodoo Magic that takes a lot of understanding of how it works to get the best setup. Every different aspect of the rig effects the stall rpm weight, gears, motor output, motor power curve, transmission and rotating mass/ parasitic loss"

 

[WaterH]

Will you have a tray on the top to keep hot air from coming out of the rad and being ingested by the down facing cooler? Might not be a problem.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Working on the air shifter for the NP205. These are 1.5” bore x 1” stroke with spacers to limit travel to 7/16”. The cylinders are bolted end to end.
Position 1 A in B in Low
Position 2 A out B in Neutral
Position 3 A out B out High
With a 1.5” bore at 70PSI the pull is 102lbs and push is 123lbs. I have read that the NP205 detents move around 100lbs. I chose 1” stroke because it is much more common / available and easy enough to destroke with spacers. I found the cylinders surplus for around $35 each from Radwell.

 

[WaterH]

That's some serious looking hardware. I don't know anything about air shifters. Will you have an air valve in the console that directly sends air to these? (Or will it be some kind of electric/air valve?)

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

That's some serious looking hardware. I don't know anything about air shifters. Will you have an air valve in the console that directly sends air to these? (Or will it be some kind of electric/air valve?)

Post #60 Page 4 covers how it will operate

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

The Ford NP205 with NWF EcoBox is assembled.

NWF Eco Box specific for the Ford NP205.
The new version replaces the stock female 31 spline input shaft/gear on the Ford 205 and replaces the NWF male 31 spline adapter shaft to NP241 planetary with a new NWF shaft and gear that drops into the NP205 and directly connects to the 241 planetary.
One benefit is the new shaft is 1.75" OD vs the old 31 spline shaft at 1.375" OD so the weak link goes away similar to what the NWF Titan shaft does. The second benefit is the NWF case drops from 8" overall length to 6.25" overall length. Something I was already worried about was the drive train length and this helps out.
The difference from the Titan shaft and box is that the new Ford specific Eco Box is a splined shaft and splined gear that connect together as a two piece vs the one piece shaft of the Titan box. Less material and machining keep the price down on the new unit.

I shaved down the top of the case to make more room under the seat, that involved water sand blasting the case to clean it up and a band saw cut/shave then preheat then TIG weld with 309 rod and an insulated cool down then a coating of steelitcoatings to make it look good.

Front and rear forged 1410 u-bolt yokes were installed along with JB Custom Fabrication twin sticks with detents and NP205cases.com seals and gaskets. I used Permatex High Tack Gasket Sealant with the paper gaskets to help seal. Silver RTV gasket on the yokes, idle shaft nut, bolts, and EcoBox.

 

[gt1guy]

I thought 309 filler was for stainless to mild steel? What was the reasoning behind it's use? I assume something to do with the case being cast? Iron or steel?

 

[CDA 455 II]

/
Very nice!

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

I thought 309 filler was for stainless to mild steel? What was the reasoning behind it's use? I assume something to do with the case being cast? Iron or steel?

You will hear metallurgists go on about the 309 chromium will interact with the high carbon and create chromium carbide. While at the same time the rod was designed to weld stainless to carbon so who do you believe. I believe the old grey hairs who have been welding up exhaust manifolds and turbos to both steel and stainless steel flanges for years.
The preheat and cool down was good, but I forgot to needle gun it afterwards so I will probably needle gun it and repaint the top section for piece of mind.

 

[bdkw1]

That is the exact same way I have been welding cast for years. Needleing needs to be done when it's still hot. Doing it cold will have very little effect other than making it look like shit.

 

[WaterH]

That is the exact same way I have been welding cast for years. Needleing needs to be done when it's still hot. Doing it cold will have very little effect other than making it look like shit.

So when you say "hot", does that mean dull red? If he wants to do it now, would he just heat it till dull red or would it need get hotter and then be on the way down. Just to educate me, I'm assuming the needlegun is for stress relief on the cast? Not important for the plate or the filler rod?

 

[bdkw1]

So when you say "hot", does that mean dull red?

If it fit's in the BBQ. turn it up all the way and throw it in for 30min. Put it back in on low for an hour or so after welding. Turn it off and let cool. If it's to big, hit it with the rosebud and get it up to 500* or so. When your done throw a heat blanket on it.

Needling the weld while it's still hot helps remove the stress as the metal will still move a little. Once it's cool, it doesn't do much. The best way would be a vibrator like Metlax. Those things are like fucking magic.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

When searching for an air locker for the rear Ford 10.5 my first though was ARB, then I was told no they have a slow warranty and the shift seals will leak. Then I heard about Yukon Zip air lockers, but also heard that they have issues as well and the factory welds them to prevent coming apart. I heard their warranty was better than ARB though. Lastly I heard about a OX lockers and my first thought was no I don’t want to deal with a cable that will get trashed in the rocks. While researching the OX I found out they make a air operated version. But then I see air cylinders sticking out the side of the diff covers. I think that is going to get broken off unloading it off the trailer. After doing some more digging, I find out that the 10.5 has an internal cylinder, only the hose comes out of the side. I dig more and can’t find any reports of failures like the other lockers. I find out they are truly American made not just assembled, that’s when I decided to order one.

Until I got it, I didn’t know how the air shifter worked. The fork has a sliding piston that slides in the diff cover which acts as the bore. The air fitting directly connects to the cover. It is a very simple design and less parts to fail. The cover is super thick, I don’t see it denting or flexing to cause a binding issue.
The locking collar is spring held open and air pulls the teeth together. They have a wedge shape so once engaged they pull themselves together and will not open under load.

For now I put on a short push to connect fitting and a hose clamp with the 1/4” air brake line routed up. It looks like it is out of the way and if the hose gets pinched or ripped off it’s easy enough to put a new piece of tube on. I might make a two bolt bridge that covers the air fitting so if I back into something it can not crush the air fitting. Even if it does, OX makes a bolt that replaces the air fitting and pushes the fork into the locked location. These are all small parts that can be carried on the buggy to eliminate the inconvenience of loosing air both by a line or by compressor. Neither ARB or Yukon have that ability.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Finally decided upon Nitto Trail Grapplers
40”x13.5”x17”
Measure out at 39.8” inflated with no load
Load Range C
DOT compound for cold weather use. I was surprised how soft they are for a DOT compound.

 

[WaterH]

That's really cool. I like that you can put a bolt in it if your air system failed somehow.

 

[Blase]

That's some good info. on the OX locker!

 

[CDA 455 II]

That's some good info. on the OX locker!

X2!



HYDRODYNAMIC; what's your opinion on the manual-operated option?


I'm on their website and really like what I'm reading.

I'm a K.I.S.S. kind of guy.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Nice!

I really considered the ox for the reasons you mentioned, it was for a 60 rear and, at least at the time, the actuator was external. I thought about making a guard, but I know so many people who have ran arb's for 10-20 years with lit3to no issues, I went that route.

I would like to add a locker to my F350 and you have me interested in them again. Electric is an option as well?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

X2!



HYDRODYNAMIC; what's your opinion on the manual-operated option?


I'm on their website and really like what I'm reading.

I'm a K.I.S.S. kind of guy.

The cable is simple in concept, but they need to be carefully routed and can be damaged just like an air line or a wire if routed improperly, or if a stick sneaks up somewhere.

So when you think about it, what's more simple to repair in the middle of nowhere? A wire, an air line or a cable?

Of course, as mentioned, there is always the magic bolt

 

[CDA 455 II]

Nice!

I really considered the ox for the reasons you mentioned, it was for a 60 rear and, at least at the time, the actuator was external. I thought about making a guard, but I know so many people who have ran arb's for 10-20 years with lit3to no issues, I went that route.

I would like to add a locker to my F350 and you have me interested in them again.

Electric is an option as well?

Air actuated

Manual actuated <---- I'm liking this one.

Electric actuated



I'm now seriously going to look into them.

 

[CDA 455 II]

The cable is simple in concept, but they need to be carefully routed and can be damaged just like an air line or a wire if routed improperly, or if a stick sneaks up somewhere.

So when you think about it, what's more simple to repair in the middle of nowhere? A wire, an air line or a cable?

Of course, as mentioned, there is always the magic bolt

I really like the magic bolt design!

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Trail Ready Flow Formed 17x8.5, 8 on 170 4.5” backspacing.

Does anyone run the stock flat face lug nuts with these? The pockets are machined flat and countersunk so it looks like it will run both style?
EDIT: Trail Ready said even though it looks like it they are NOT hub eccentric and need cone lug nuts to center properly.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Nice!

I really considered the ox for the reasons you mentioned, it was for a 60 rear and, at least at the time, the actuator was external. I thought about making a guard, but I know so many people who have ran arb's for 10-20 years with lit3to no issues, I went that route.

I would like to add a locker to my F350 and you have me interested in them again. Electric is an option as well?

The electric option is the cable style with an actuator at the end that replaces the hand lever. It is not internal like the air. It does make for easier routing and switched control. It still can use the magic bolt. I don’t know how often people actually mess up a cable or if it’s the paranoia. Brake lines are ran all around the same locations and people are not destroying their brakes at an alarming rate. It would not take very much effort to make a guard if you felt it was needed. Weld a couple tabs to the axle tube and bolt something on.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The electric option is the cable style with an actuator at the end that replaces the hand lever. It is not internal like the air. It does make for easier routing and switched control. It still can use the magic bolt. I don’t know how often people actually mess up a cable or if it’s the paranoia. Brake lines are ran all around the same locations and people are not destroying their brakes at an alarming rate. It would not take very much effort to make a guard if you felt it was needed. Weld a couple tabs to the axle tube and bolt something on.

I agree, I just don't like the cable for some reason ​​​​​​

On a trail rig, I like using air. For a tow rig or something more utility, the electric makes more sense to me, that or cable.

Do they make a difference 20' cable for a crew cab long bed?

 

[gt1guy]

Trail Ready Flow Formed 17x8.5, 8 on 170 4.5” backspacing.

Does anyone run the stock flat face lug nuts with these? The pockets are machined flat and countersunk so it looks like it will run both style?

Are you talking about the lug nuts with the swivel washers that TR sells? If so, that's what I went with on my TR's. I don't even see them on their website now, so maybe not what you're talking about.

I have a set of their "pure race" wheels that take 5/8" wheel studs, but they are set up as you describe, can take either type of lug nuts.

If we're talking about the same thing, I can tell you the flat washer style lugs are impressively massive.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Are you talking about the lug nuts with the swivel washers that TR sells? If so, that's what I went with on my TR's. I don't even see them on their website now, so maybe not what you're talking about.

I have a set of their "pure race" wheels that take 5/8" wheel studs, but they are set up as you describe, can take either type of lug nuts.





If we're talking about the same thing, I can tell you the flat washer style lugs are impressively massive.

Trail Ready said that the hub is not concentric even though it looks like it, and I would need coned lug nuts to center the wheel properly. I also decided to go with the cone nuts because they cover the whole stud and keep debris and rust off the studs.

 

[ArTi54N]

I'm pretty sure I said this on the old site.. but I really appreciate your welds

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Rebuild for the 4l80e is under way. Water sand blasted the outside of the case. Cleaned all the internals.
The rebuild kit is a Jakes Performance Stage 2 without the recalibration kit, which should not be done if you want to maintain engine braking. Core is a 2003 and looks to be in good condition so far. The valve body separator plate looks to have been cleaned up by a small rotary abrasive wheel, so someone must have rebuilt the trans at some point in time. Unsure if GM put a 2003 build trans into a 2004 vin truck but they were off. The difference is the wiring harness plugs and the EPC electronic pressure control valve. Since the new kit came with both, I will just update to 2004 spec. The EPC really doesn't matter since the trans will be manual controlled with the Radesigns micro switches and no computer, so the valve will default to full flow.

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Don't let anyone tell you rebuilding transmissions is easy. They are either pros or are ignorant to what it really entails.
As a first time re-builder, I made a good decision to pay the extra money and get a Jakes Performance kit as all the parts are picked out to match and be installed in a certain order to set proper clearances. Until having done one, I wouldn't have known which parts to get exactly and it would have been a lot harder learning process. Part of the kit is a supplemental set of instructions for modifications that can be done to improve the power handling and life of the trans. For off road use there is a specific valve body separator plate and instructions for proper engine braking use.
If you do research on mods that can be done, make sure that they will work with all the other mods and parts being used. For instance my rear output case bushing nearly fell out upon disassembly. This is a common problem. Jakes sends a roller bearing kit and an extended bushing that work together. Elsewhere I find out that I can use a Sonnax anti walk out bushing, but I find out it will not work with the roller bearing kit I have, Sonnax sells another kit that has an over-sized bearing that works only as the whole kit. The solution is to install the walk out bushing opposite of the manufacturers instructions and it will locate the original bearing with no problems. Another trick I found out is to use red loctite to help retain the bushing in the housing. These are things that come up without any clear instruction and finding the answer involves learning how everything really works.

I did find out that certain parts of the trans had been swapped out with other years but they will all work correctly together given the proper setup, parts, and shims.
I did not need any special tools. I wrestled it on top of a bench or stood it up on its tail with a piece of box tube that was tall enough for the tail shaft to drop into. I did use some clamps for compressing spring packs and a hydraulic press for pressing bushings. I got lucky having a bunch or random pieces of round stock, tubes, and pipe that worked for removing and installing bushings and seals. Snap ring pliers, punches, picks, screwdrivers, dial indicator, feeler gauges, rubber hammer all were used.

I am still waiting to finish up the assembly as the separator plate is on its way. Also on the way is a torque converter and flex plate parts. I went round and round trying to figure out which torque converter to use and what is being done to them which makes them what they are and what the stall actually means in terms of use while driving. The torque converter is a Summit Racing private label part #SUM-700339. 12 in. Diameter, 6 Bolt mount, 4L80E, 2,400-2,700 Stall, Approximate rated at 500HP, Motor is a stock 2010 6.0L

 

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

Took it outside to make a U turn to line it up with the hoist to start dropping in the drivetrain.