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CV Joints - ALL Tech and Specs

Bebop said:
Tatra anyone ?

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Dear god that's a textbook example of over-complicated European garbage before we even get the inevitable poor decisions regarding what shares oil and what has to come apart in what order to service shit. I'm not surprised you're who posted it though. :laughing:
 
Isdtbower said:
SXS's are advertising 24" of 4WD front articulation but letting the droop camber go considerably positive in droop....and why MUTT's and VW's flipped easily. Choices.
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I don't get how that works out for them. Tilting the upright positive is gonna result in crazy angles and more slip travel on the CVs.

I get that it "has" to happen as you droop if your upper is shorter than the lower but I just don't get how they can get those numbers without the CVs binding up hard.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Dear god that's a textbook example of over-complicated European garbage before we even get the inevitable poor decisions regarding what shares oil and what has to come apart in what order to service shit. I'm not surprised you're who posted it though. :laughing:
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tatras been built like that since middle-soviet times bruh
 
Bebop said:
Everyone knows the soviets are Reddit engineer bruh
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They kind of are in that neither group has much of an economic impetus to design shit "cheap but still right enough". Commie engineers from back in the day just happened to prize a vastly different (and far more useful) set of performance characteristics than modern Reddit engineers.

As US engineering work becomes more and more removed from the actual manufacturing and usage of the products being designed it trends toward the same bullshit.
 
Now that manufacturing video is badass, we need more of that!

Tatras are awesome, their way of pivoting the ring gear for each wheel is wild.

Interesting notes on the Proformance being straight machined grooves. In that regard, why are plunging CVs set up the way they are with 3 slots angling one way, and 3 angling the other way trying to plunge in opposite directions?

Glad to see UTVs brought up too. For full sized independent vehicles we hear a lot about limiting travel to 25° give or take however much due to heat, how do UTVs seem to manage some of the steep angles they do without significant reliability issues?
 
Can someone give me the breakdown on Chevy truck CVs from GMT400 through the 2010s?

I assume GMT400 and 800 are different and the 3/4 and 1-ton use the same CV shaft within a given generation.
 
Most of the wear seen in "a" shop is from stopping the CV almost instantly or on hard braking. Consider all the drivetrain driving in forward and the wheel instantly "stopping" against a rock. That CV reversal could be stronger than a sledge. Most everything that gets serviced is inspected and wear is usually from braking instead of the accel side.

Desert racing, which is where the 25* heat number generally comes from is because those, "usually buggies," Would go tens of miles at a stretch at 80-100mph+. Consider what UTV's and others are doing. Less shaft speed possibly and strapped with sway bars to not articulate those big numbers. And the CV guys have learned over the last several years. I'm not sure greases have helped either. High end is probably still high end????

Information on CV greases might be entertaining if available from someone in the know. Not just brands but some chemistry.
 
I'm a bit surprised about the wear on the braking side of the CV, I haven't quite wrapped my head around that yet. Assuming the drivers aren't engaging the brakes too hard while on the throttle, unless it's due to engine braking? If not engine braking, it seems like the only braking stress the CVs should see is the energy of slowing down the rotating mass of the powertrain/drivetrain. But then in acceleration it's seeing the same mass of the drivetrain, plus the additional stress of the tires traction. so I would expect it to be greater

49° is excellent from the X3 joint, dang. So it's at least got a couple degrees on most fullsize options. But as far as the heat goes, I'm just surprised that even in stock form some of those SXS have crazy travel with relatively small tires, so they should have enough RPM at steep (droop) angles to generate some heat.

I've got to admit I'm extremely interested in the few solutions that allow fixed CVs at both ends. There doesn't seem to be as much anecdotal data on those configurations yet, but if they can allow north of 30-35° articulation at high shaft speeds with reasonable heat then we can start looking at things through a new lens
 
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fl0w3n said:
AgitatedPancake

A few measurements from 99-04 Dana 60 RCV stubs

Bell OD ~ 4 & 3/8 inch
Inner star spline - 35
Number of balls - 6

Angle and ball OD will need to wait until one day when i reassemble these


Don’t mind my crusty shaft and greasy balls :flipoff2:
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AFB24A3D-3558-4884-B90B-01A7389B232F.jpeg
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Interesting, found out from RCV that 99-04 is in fact 4.40” OD on the bell, and 05+ as well as “all other Dana 60 bells measure 4.48” in their words.

That was a little surprising to me that a KP60 and 05+ 60 would have the same bell size, given the difference in C and knuckle size. Also, that seems like a minor change in OD, so also surprised they manufacture two different sizes so close together. I’m assuming it’s for a reason though
 
fl0w3n said:
Interesting, found out from RCV that 99-04 is in fact 4.40” OD on the bell, and 05+ as well as “all other Dana 60 bells measure 4.48” in their words.

That was a little surprising to me that a KP60 and 05+ 60 would have the same bell size, given the difference in C and knuckle size. Also, that seems like a minor change in OD, so also surprised they manufacture two different sizes so close together. I’m assuming it’s for a reason though
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Hmm, agreed that is definitely interesting. I wonder why they would step up the OD by 80 thou, I thought it was already essentially maxed out by the spindle pilot diameter on the pre-05 axles. On the 05+ axles, I think they have two product lines also offering a "big bell" option that I think is between 5"-5.5" diameter-ish

Ultimate Dana Big Bell 40 Spline CV Axle for Ford F-250/350 ('05+)

https://www.rcvperformance.com/media/pdf/BIGBELL_OEMKNUCKLE_INSTALL.pdf
 
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AgitatedPancake said:
Hmm, agreed that is definitely interesting. I wonder why they would step up the OD by 80 thou, I thought it was already essentially maxed out by the spindle pilot diameter on the pre-05 axles. On the 05+ axles, I think they have two product lines also offering a "big bell" option that I think is between 5"-5.5" diameter-ish

Ultimate Dana Big Bell 40 Spline CV Axle for Ford F-250/350 ('05+)

https://www.rcvperformance.com/media/pdf/BIGBELL_OEMKNUCKLE_INSTALL.pdf
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Might be stupid question but is RCV machining the bells in house? I assume so.
 
Don't count on those orange boots actually working if you are playing out of their "box." Great if they do.

I also need to look at a set of 30/35's with grease zerks to see how they were done. I know you would have to pull the boots back. They came new from a $$ Class 1.
 
Can anyone think of an OEM application (i.e. not aftermarket "HD" CVs) that uses a non-plunging inner?
 
arse_sidewards said:
Can anyone think of an OEM application (i.e. not aftermarket "HD" CVs) that uses a non-plunging inner?
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datsun 510s used single cardan u-joints at both ends

one of them stupid hitachi rear diffs that subaru's still using, too
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Corvette C4 maybe? Though that's ujoint, but still. Is the "axle shaft" structural on a C4, bearing suspension loads?
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I'm talking about real CVs, not U joints.

Buuuuut, your structural CV shaft comment jogged my memory and look what I found:


Screen Shot 2024-02-07 at 6.36.25 PM.png


Shit can't slip when it's what's setting the wheel position.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Nice. What retains the stub shaft in the diff on that jag setup? I'm sure it's a simple setup, I'm just not aware
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Looks like C clip.

Screen Shot 2024-02-07 at 6.44.55 PM.png


I wonder how well the bells would tolerate a bead of weld being run around the OD of the base basically where the seal protector rides. I'm trying to make something that uses a bolt flange mount on both ends.

I bet if stitched it the inside would stay cool enough to maintain heat treat....

Edit: older generations of the XJ are cheaper and don't have the stress riser steps on the shaft.
Screen Shot 2024-02-07 at 6.51.31 PM.png
 
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Bolt flange mount, like your traditional 6 bolt CVS?

The other option is just finding differentials that use bolt on inner CVs, and replace the OEM plunging one with a fixed joint
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Bolt flange mount, like your traditional 6 bolt CVS?
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Kinda. It's gonna be 4x4.25 bolt pattern because I'm a fucking retard who wants to replace a drive shaft with CVs for more angle :laughing:

I could get two complete shafts of whatever truck I prefer and cut/sleeve/weld but it would be really cool if I could knock it down to just one shaft assembly in case I need to source shit on the road.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Kinda. It's gonna be 4x4.25 bolt pattern because I'm a fucking retard who wants to replace a drive shaft with CVs for more angle :laughing:

I could get two complete shafts of whatever truck I prefer and cut/sleeve/weld but it would be really cool if I could knock it down to just one shaft assembly in case I need to source shit on the road.
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What about the CV driveshafts from grand cherokees and JKs (and I'm sure others)? The flanges already exist for those, depending on what spline count you need etc
 
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