Great work!
-
Last Call Guest on these Group Buy Deal Items from Baja Designs
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #182
Sheet metal brake completion
The end plates for the assembly are made from 1/2" plate, with bosses welded in. These accept 5/8" shoulder screws that serve as the pivot pins. The shoulders are 2" long, positioned with 1" in the end plate bosses, and the other 1" in mating bosses that weld to the pivoting front bar. The short 3/8" threaded section of the shoulder screw threads into the threaded inner end of the front bar boss to secure the shoulder bolts in place. These removable pivot pins make it easy to take the brake apart for storage.
These photos show the end plates, and an end plate tacked to the baseplate, with the front bar boss and shoulder screw in place ready for welding to the front bar:
The front bar was clamped to set it's forming edge flush with the baseplate surface, and set a tight gap - then the front bar bosses were welded in place. I was a little worried about whether the pivot pins would align to each other well enough to avoid binding, but everything fit well enough that once the bosses were welded there was neither bind nor slop at the pivots. Phew!
Then added some details like the top bar tensioner and clamping handles, plus adjuster stops and bosses for the fore / aft top clamp adjusters. Here's a detail shot of the adjuster set up, and the lift springs. The clamp studs are removable, as I'm thinking I may want to add other hole positions for other bend fixtures. After making the initial brake, I finished making 1/2” radius and 3/4” radius bars for rounded bends as was done on the old brake used for the tunnel build. These fit on the current posts.
Here it is all put together:
Overall it’s working well. One thing that I need to improve is the clamp screw handles. They're sturdy and comfortable - but they get in the way on a full 48" width bend depending on what angle they end up at when tightened on the panel. I think I’ll change them to sliding bar style handle at some point so the handle bar can be moved out of the way on a wide bend. The handles on front are at a comfortable width and the length provides plenty of leverage for a full width panel.
Here’s the brake storage when broken down to its three main pieces. It's stored vertically in a stand I made, which also holds the beadroller table top when it's not in use.
Tools and methods detour done for now, back to building the rig!
The end plates for the assembly are made from 1/2" plate, with bosses welded in. These accept 5/8" shoulder screws that serve as the pivot pins. The shoulders are 2" long, positioned with 1" in the end plate bosses, and the other 1" in mating bosses that weld to the pivoting front bar. The short 3/8" threaded section of the shoulder screw threads into the threaded inner end of the front bar boss to secure the shoulder bolts in place. These removable pivot pins make it easy to take the brake apart for storage.
These photos show the end plates, and an end plate tacked to the baseplate, with the front bar boss and shoulder screw in place ready for welding to the front bar:
The front bar was clamped to set it's forming edge flush with the baseplate surface, and set a tight gap - then the front bar bosses were welded in place. I was a little worried about whether the pivot pins would align to each other well enough to avoid binding, but everything fit well enough that once the bosses were welded there was neither bind nor slop at the pivots. Phew!
Then added some details like the top bar tensioner and clamping handles, plus adjuster stops and bosses for the fore / aft top clamp adjusters. Here's a detail shot of the adjuster set up, and the lift springs. The clamp studs are removable, as I'm thinking I may want to add other hole positions for other bend fixtures. After making the initial brake, I finished making 1/2” radius and 3/4” radius bars for rounded bends as was done on the old brake used for the tunnel build. These fit on the current posts.
Here it is all put together:
Overall it’s working well. One thing that I need to improve is the clamp screw handles. They're sturdy and comfortable - but they get in the way on a full 48" width bend depending on what angle they end up at when tightened on the panel. I think I’ll change them to sliding bar style handle at some point so the handle bar can be moved out of the way on a wide bend. The handles on front are at a comfortable width and the length provides plenty of leverage for a full width panel.
Here’s the brake storage when broken down to its three main pieces. It's stored vertically in a stand I made, which also holds the beadroller table top when it's not in use.
Tools and methods detour done for now, back to building the rig!
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #184
Quadrajet adapter
Put together an adapter for mounting a spread bore Quadrajet to a square bore Edelbrock manifold for the engine.
The NOS 4.3 Goodwrench replacement engine I'm using was purchased as a long block assembly. The block casting 10172756 indicates the build year was 92-94, and it’s a non-balance shaft, roller lifter cam, configuration. The Goodwrench part number specifies it was intended for 1985-86 truck and Astro van models.
I bought an Edelbrock 2111 dual plane manifold and initially planned to run a 390 cfm holley- but decided to change plans and go with the more off road capable Quadrajet when the opportunity arose. 46Willyz on the old site sold me the Quadrajet he had been running when he changed his 4.3 to fuel injection. It's the specific model that was stock on ’85-’86 carbureted 4.3’s - nice! Not sure if he may be here on Irate under a different name, but thanks!
So the new plan was to make an adapter to fit the Quadrajet to the Edelbrock square bore manifold. Over the course of the build, I researched other options, including the factory '85-86 manifold, but I still like the adapter idea best.
I considered EFI, but I understand carbs better, and a carb fits the somewhat retro style overall build.
Other manifolds were also considered: Edelbrock now makes a marine spread bore 4.3 manifold that would fit the Quadrajet directly, but it's expensive due to having brass lined water ports, and the brass lining is not desirable for electrolysis with the aluminum radiator I'm running. Pat Ganahl’s old V-6 performance book shows a Holley spread bore Street Dominator manifold, which would be a really nice choice - but I’ve never seen one for sale anywhere. The factory cast iron Astro manifold works well, but is very heavy, has a big clunky EGR casting boss, and is very tall- about the same as the Edelbrock with the adapter. The various stock marine cast iron manifolds have similar drawbacks. So I decided to stick with an adapter on the Edelbroack 2111 manifold.
Commercial spreadbore-squarebore adapters have their bolt/stud patterns configured for putting a square bore carb on a spread bore manifold. Many also are fully open in the center, so they don't preserve the dual plane manifold plenum separation. My current manifold is an early 2111 that has the two sides of the dual plane fully separated - which I think provides a strong signal to the carb, helping low speed responsiveness. I wanted to maintain that separation through the adapter.
Also, I have my engine set level like the original Willys - rather than tipped back the typical 3-4 degrees. I like the level engine placement for balanced front-back driveline angles, rather than tipping the front up to improve the rear angle.
The manifold has the carb mounting surface and mounting holes tilted to compensate for mounted engine tilt. With my engine positioned level, the carb would tip nose down. Putting a tapered adapter on the manifold would level the carb. The manifold could be milled to do the same thing, but with that approach the mounting studs would be tilted relative to the carb.
To get the tilt correction and maintain dual plane separation, I decided to make the adapter myself. It's made from 6061 aluminum. I had a local machine shop face the mounting surface on a mill for the angle correction, and I did the rest with hole saws, drills, jig saw, files, and finally sandpaper for the "brushed finish".
Here's how it turned out, along with the initial cable bracket, which is made from 304 stainless. It bolts to the adapter boss.
The 4 countersunk adapter mounting holes are drilled perpendicular to the base, and fit stainless socket head cap screws to attach it to the square bore hole pattern on the manifold. The other threaded holes accept ARP studs for the Quadrajet pattern, and are drilled and tapped perpendicular to the top carb mounting surface.
Here's some pics that show the front to back taper to set the carb level, how the Quadrajet gasket is trimmed (The square bore gasket to the manifold is trimmed similarly), the adapter fit on the manifold, some misc views, and the initial version of cable bracket:
More in next post.
Put together an adapter for mounting a spread bore Quadrajet to a square bore Edelbrock manifold for the engine.
The NOS 4.3 Goodwrench replacement engine I'm using was purchased as a long block assembly. The block casting 10172756 indicates the build year was 92-94, and it’s a non-balance shaft, roller lifter cam, configuration. The Goodwrench part number specifies it was intended for 1985-86 truck and Astro van models.
I bought an Edelbrock 2111 dual plane manifold and initially planned to run a 390 cfm holley- but decided to change plans and go with the more off road capable Quadrajet when the opportunity arose. 46Willyz on the old site sold me the Quadrajet he had been running when he changed his 4.3 to fuel injection. It's the specific model that was stock on ’85-’86 carbureted 4.3’s - nice! Not sure if he may be here on Irate under a different name, but thanks!
So the new plan was to make an adapter to fit the Quadrajet to the Edelbrock square bore manifold. Over the course of the build, I researched other options, including the factory '85-86 manifold, but I still like the adapter idea best.
I considered EFI, but I understand carbs better, and a carb fits the somewhat retro style overall build.
Other manifolds were also considered: Edelbrock now makes a marine spread bore 4.3 manifold that would fit the Quadrajet directly, but it's expensive due to having brass lined water ports, and the brass lining is not desirable for electrolysis with the aluminum radiator I'm running. Pat Ganahl’s old V-6 performance book shows a Holley spread bore Street Dominator manifold, which would be a really nice choice - but I’ve never seen one for sale anywhere. The factory cast iron Astro manifold works well, but is very heavy, has a big clunky EGR casting boss, and is very tall- about the same as the Edelbrock with the adapter. The various stock marine cast iron manifolds have similar drawbacks. So I decided to stick with an adapter on the Edelbroack 2111 manifold.
Commercial spreadbore-squarebore adapters have their bolt/stud patterns configured for putting a square bore carb on a spread bore manifold. Many also are fully open in the center, so they don't preserve the dual plane manifold plenum separation. My current manifold is an early 2111 that has the two sides of the dual plane fully separated - which I think provides a strong signal to the carb, helping low speed responsiveness. I wanted to maintain that separation through the adapter.
Also, I have my engine set level like the original Willys - rather than tipped back the typical 3-4 degrees. I like the level engine placement for balanced front-back driveline angles, rather than tipping the front up to improve the rear angle.
The manifold has the carb mounting surface and mounting holes tilted to compensate for mounted engine tilt. With my engine positioned level, the carb would tip nose down. Putting a tapered adapter on the manifold would level the carb. The manifold could be milled to do the same thing, but with that approach the mounting studs would be tilted relative to the carb.
To get the tilt correction and maintain dual plane separation, I decided to make the adapter myself. It's made from 6061 aluminum. I had a local machine shop face the mounting surface on a mill for the angle correction, and I did the rest with hole saws, drills, jig saw, files, and finally sandpaper for the "brushed finish".
Here's how it turned out, along with the initial cable bracket, which is made from 304 stainless. It bolts to the adapter boss.
The 4 countersunk adapter mounting holes are drilled perpendicular to the base, and fit stainless socket head cap screws to attach it to the square bore hole pattern on the manifold. The other threaded holes accept ARP studs for the Quadrajet pattern, and are drilled and tapped perpendicular to the top carb mounting surface.
Here's some pics that show the front to back taper to set the carb level, how the Quadrajet gasket is trimmed (The square bore gasket to the manifold is trimmed similarly), the adapter fit on the manifold, some misc views, and the initial version of cable bracket:
More in next post.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #185
Carb adapter continued
The last piost shows the initial throttle cable bracket. When everything was mounted in place, the initial bracket placed the cable a little too far back- which provided more than necessary return spring tension, cramped the cable routing to the firewall a little more than I liked, and the return spring and cable alignment could be improved a little too. So I made a new bracket to improve the fit. The new bracket is simpler without the rearward offset so the cable routing is smoother, and the cable and spring hole positions are a little further out for better alignment. New one on top, old on bottom:
Here’s the Edelbrock manifold, Davis Unified Ignition HEI distributor, Q-Jet, carb adapter, Lokar cable, and 90 degree Spectre air horn in place on the engine:
The cable is a Lokar cable kit for a GM TPI, as it has a cable end fitting that will connect to the stock Quadrajet throttle arm post. Quadrajet Power had the little stock Q Jet clip available to lock it in place on the post:
On the Spectre airhorn, I'm not decided on whether I'll use it or not. If so, it connects to a Donaldson filter positioned near a cold air inlet vent at the side of the body behind the fender. The alternative I'm thinking about is a traditional 14” x 3” Walker round air filter with foam wrap on top of the carb. The cold air idea is nice for the cold air source but has a longer flow path and a more complicated and cluttered engine bay arrangement. The round one is simpler and less cluttered. Still making up my mind, but leaning towards the traditional round housing with a Walker filter and wrap.
The last piost shows the initial throttle cable bracket. When everything was mounted in place, the initial bracket placed the cable a little too far back- which provided more than necessary return spring tension, cramped the cable routing to the firewall a little more than I liked, and the return spring and cable alignment could be improved a little too. So I made a new bracket to improve the fit. The new bracket is simpler without the rearward offset so the cable routing is smoother, and the cable and spring hole positions are a little further out for better alignment. New one on top, old on bottom:
Here’s the Edelbrock manifold, Davis Unified Ignition HEI distributor, Q-Jet, carb adapter, Lokar cable, and 90 degree Spectre air horn in place on the engine:
The cable is a Lokar cable kit for a GM TPI, as it has a cable end fitting that will connect to the stock Quadrajet throttle arm post. Quadrajet Power had the little stock Q Jet clip available to lock it in place on the post:
On the Spectre airhorn, I'm not decided on whether I'll use it or not. If so, it connects to a Donaldson filter positioned near a cold air inlet vent at the side of the body behind the fender. The alternative I'm thinking about is a traditional 14” x 3” Walker round air filter with foam wrap on top of the carb. The cold air idea is nice for the cold air source but has a longer flow path and a more complicated and cluttered engine bay arrangement. The round one is simpler and less cluttered. Still making up my mind, but leaning towards the traditional round housing with a Walker filter and wrap.
Last edited:
gt1guy
Apparently a racist
Very cool. I always like the Quadrajets, even though everyone else I knew hated them.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #187
I’m still learning about them, but they are well regarded for handling fuel well at an angle. I think the small primary / large secondary arrangement makes a lot of sense - responsive at slow speeds and flows well when opened up. I have a lot to learn on tuning, but have been reading up and look forward to running it!
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #188
Radiator hoses & air filter:
With the intake manifold and water inlet mounted, I figured it was a good time to hunt down radiator hoses that would fit. The Ron Davis radiator I chose has both hoses on the passenger side. That puts the top hose on the opposite side of the early chevy 4.3 and small block V-8 configurations that I recall, so it took some searching for the top hose. On the bottom, the passenger side route is common but I was little concerned about getting adequate clearance to the v belt in that area.
I found two hoses that fit really well. The upper is a Dayco 70786 (68-74 Ford Bronco), and the lower is a Dayco 70492 (69 Chevy Camaro), shown in the photos. No clamps on them yet, as the engine will be coming out again later. Just some slight trimming of length was needed. Both lined up nicely and the lower fit with about 1" clearance to the v-belt.
In the last post, I mentioned that I was weighing two different air cleaner configurations. I initially put together the Spectre carb intake plenum with a Donaldson air cleaner. I plan vent panels in the “triangle” body panel area between the rear part of the fender and the firewall, and thought I might try to make a metal air intake box that directs air from the vent panel around the Donaldson filter. Another possibility with this filter set-up is to not make the air intake box, and just rely on close positioning of the filter near the vent panel. That’s what I had in place initially while I thought further about making an inlet box, as shown in this photo. (The photo also shows the initial position of the shock reservoirs, which were later moved to piggyback mounting on the shock bodies).
Lately I have been thinking I like the simpler approach of a traditional round open element air cleaner. The next pic shows this option that I just set up recently, with a Walker 14” x 3” oiled filter, and Walker foam wrap. The air cleaner case has an offset base that moves the air cleaner forward about 1.5”, which provides more clearance to the hood hat channel brace. The carb adapter height added to the Edelbrock manifold works out well to provide clearance to the HEI distributor with a flat air cleaner base. It all fits under the hood with the Walker 3” filter, which has thick, compliant, heavy duty filter sealing surfaces (rather than the low profile seal model which has thinner seals).
I think I’m going to go with this simpler approach with the Walker filter.
With the intake manifold and water inlet mounted, I figured it was a good time to hunt down radiator hoses that would fit. The Ron Davis radiator I chose has both hoses on the passenger side. That puts the top hose on the opposite side of the early chevy 4.3 and small block V-8 configurations that I recall, so it took some searching for the top hose. On the bottom, the passenger side route is common but I was little concerned about getting adequate clearance to the v belt in that area.
I found two hoses that fit really well. The upper is a Dayco 70786 (68-74 Ford Bronco), and the lower is a Dayco 70492 (69 Chevy Camaro), shown in the photos. No clamps on them yet, as the engine will be coming out again later. Just some slight trimming of length was needed. Both lined up nicely and the lower fit with about 1" clearance to the v-belt.
In the last post, I mentioned that I was weighing two different air cleaner configurations. I initially put together the Spectre carb intake plenum with a Donaldson air cleaner. I plan vent panels in the “triangle” body panel area between the rear part of the fender and the firewall, and thought I might try to make a metal air intake box that directs air from the vent panel around the Donaldson filter. Another possibility with this filter set-up is to not make the air intake box, and just rely on close positioning of the filter near the vent panel. That’s what I had in place initially while I thought further about making an inlet box, as shown in this photo. (The photo also shows the initial position of the shock reservoirs, which were later moved to piggyback mounting on the shock bodies).
Lately I have been thinking I like the simpler approach of a traditional round open element air cleaner. The next pic shows this option that I just set up recently, with a Walker 14” x 3” oiled filter, and Walker foam wrap. The air cleaner case has an offset base that moves the air cleaner forward about 1.5”, which provides more clearance to the hood hat channel brace. The carb adapter height added to the Edelbrock manifold works out well to provide clearance to the HEI distributor with a flat air cleaner base. It all fits under the hood with the Walker 3” filter, which has thick, compliant, heavy duty filter sealing surfaces (rather than the low profile seal model which has thinner seals).
I think I’m going to go with this simpler approach with the Walker filter.
gt1guy
Apparently a racist
The round filter looks more like it belongs there than the donkey **** one.
Round filter definitely looks more at home
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #193
Dash gauge layout
I strarted working on a heater arrangement, but then decided to get the gauge layout on the dash done first so it would be clear what space would be available behind the dash for the heater.
I'm using Autometer guages. Played around with paper versions stuck on with magnets, viewing from the driver seat. This is what I liked best:
Left to right (and top/bottom) will be: tach, speedo, fuel level / oil pressure, temp / volts, engine vacuum / air system pressure.
The gauge holes were punched with Mittler Brothers punches, which work well. I did some test punches to get a feel for how they work before trying them on the dash. They start the cut at the "peaks" on the inside punch, and because of that they can start to rock to one side or the other- so some care is needed to keep them progressing straight- but other than that they sure beat using a hole saw - no chewed edges on the resulting holes!
Since the holes remove a fair amount of material from the panel, I wanted to be careful to avoid bending the narrower areas while punching adjacent holes. I worked from the center small gauges outward, as I thought the panel would be better supported in that sequence. That worked well.
Finished gauge holes:
If you look inside the large holes, you can see the brake pedal bracket, which attaches to both the firewall and the lower dash flange. In positioning the two large gauges, I needed to make sure that the gauges would clear the pedal bracket - which they do.
I'm thinking I'll have most switches on the center console where I can reach them easily when strapped in. A couple of possible exceptions are the main light switch and the heater switch. I may use a conventional main light switch in the stock location to the left on the dash, and a conventional multi-speed rotary heater/fan switch near the heater. Not sure yet. Ideas welcome!
With the dash gauge layout done, it was back to figuring out the heater.
I strarted working on a heater arrangement, but then decided to get the gauge layout on the dash done first so it would be clear what space would be available behind the dash for the heater.
I'm using Autometer guages. Played around with paper versions stuck on with magnets, viewing from the driver seat. This is what I liked best:
Left to right (and top/bottom) will be: tach, speedo, fuel level / oil pressure, temp / volts, engine vacuum / air system pressure.
The gauge holes were punched with Mittler Brothers punches, which work well. I did some test punches to get a feel for how they work before trying them on the dash. They start the cut at the "peaks" on the inside punch, and because of that they can start to rock to one side or the other- so some care is needed to keep them progressing straight- but other than that they sure beat using a hole saw - no chewed edges on the resulting holes!
Since the holes remove a fair amount of material from the panel, I wanted to be careful to avoid bending the narrower areas while punching adjacent holes. I worked from the center small gauges outward, as I thought the panel would be better supported in that sequence. That worked well.
Finished gauge holes:
If you look inside the large holes, you can see the brake pedal bracket, which attaches to both the firewall and the lower dash flange. In positioning the two large gauges, I needed to make sure that the gauges would clear the pedal bracket - which they do.
I'm thinking I'll have most switches on the center console where I can reach them easily when strapped in. A couple of possible exceptions are the main light switch and the heater switch. I may use a conventional main light switch in the stock location to the left on the dash, and a conventional multi-speed rotary heater/fan switch near the heater. Not sure yet. Ideas welcome!
With the dash gauge layout done, it was back to figuring out the heater.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #194
Heater build:
I previously was working on adapting an original Willys / Harrison heater as I like its retro look. Made a new backing panel to change the way it mounted to the firewall, and got pretty far along…
But then changed my mind for several reasons ( that I should have thought of earlier! )
I decided to find or make something that would mount behind the dash on the passenger side like the Harrison - and tuck up high in the space to make the passenger footwell less cluttered and flow air better over the drivetrain tunnel. In addition, I wanted to route the hoses to bulkhead fittings at the firewall closer to the engine.
After looking at aftermarket stuff, the best I could find with an aluminum core to fit the length and width constraints is a Northern Radiator AH550. After fooling around with mounting ideas, I decided to make a different case to shorten the height and change the fan to a SPAL part that is a little more compact to leave more space for hose routing. So basically all I’m using is the Northern core, and on that I’ll trim the inlet/outlet tubes to reduce their height and adapt them to AN fittings when I get to plumbing.
I also thought about incorporating defrost ducting, but decided against it since the space is so limited and the flat fender windshield /cowl doesn't support it very cleanly. I'll keep using a squeegee... I may regret the decision in the long run. If so, I can add a duct up the front of the dash.
Here's how it turned out, installed behind the dash:
I wanted the new case to have rounded edges similar to the lower dash and transmission tunnel. Most of it isn't visible once it's mounted so the effort was pretty nuts, but I wanted to try to make the shape I had in mind anyway - as an exercise in developing sheet metal skills. I think I spent more time making the forms than I did on the parts themselves, but it was a fun little project!
Here are some photos of how it went together.
The first form was used to make the top and bottom halves of the case. It's made from bits and pieces of steel I had around:
Here's the top plate being hammer formed. A leather faced wood slapper was used on the sides, and a body hammer was used to work down the corners, along with a flat dolly to constrain the sides so that the hammer hits shrink the material into the corners.
Here's the formed top plate:
Then the holes for the blower were cut and stainless PEM nuts installed. The Roper Whitney hand punch could reach all but two hole locations to punch holes and set the PEMs, while the other two PEMs were set with a shop press.
Here it is with the SPAL blower:
More in the next post...
I previously was working on adapting an original Willys / Harrison heater as I like its retro look. Made a new backing panel to change the way it mounted to the firewall, and got pretty far along…
But then changed my mind for several reasons ( that I should have thought of earlier! )
- The Harrison is tall, and the output ducts are pretty low down, so heated air flow would get trapped on the passenger side due to the raised drivetrain/tall transmission tunnel blocking the flow towards the driver side. Cold driver+ cooked passenger!
- I'd like to tuck the heater up behind the dash as much as I can for passenger foot room and airflow to the driver side.
- The original heater element ports go through the firewall in an awkward location., especially with the Spectre plenum/ Donaldson cold air intake idea I had considered- which would be a direct collision with the heater hoses. Even though I've decided against the Spectre/Donaldson air filter so the stock heater core tubes would work, it would still be clumsy.
- Ron Davis cautions against combining their aluminum radiator with brass stuff in the cooling system as the dissimilar metals promote corrosion of the radiator - so it would be better to use an aluminum heater core to match the radiator rather than the Harrison brass core.
I decided to find or make something that would mount behind the dash on the passenger side like the Harrison - and tuck up high in the space to make the passenger footwell less cluttered and flow air better over the drivetrain tunnel. In addition, I wanted to route the hoses to bulkhead fittings at the firewall closer to the engine.
After looking at aftermarket stuff, the best I could find with an aluminum core to fit the length and width constraints is a Northern Radiator AH550. After fooling around with mounting ideas, I decided to make a different case to shorten the height and change the fan to a SPAL part that is a little more compact to leave more space for hose routing. So basically all I’m using is the Northern core, and on that I’ll trim the inlet/outlet tubes to reduce their height and adapt them to AN fittings when I get to plumbing.
I also thought about incorporating defrost ducting, but decided against it since the space is so limited and the flat fender windshield /cowl doesn't support it very cleanly. I'll keep using a squeegee... I may regret the decision in the long run. If so, I can add a duct up the front of the dash.
Here's how it turned out, installed behind the dash:
I wanted the new case to have rounded edges similar to the lower dash and transmission tunnel. Most of it isn't visible once it's mounted so the effort was pretty nuts, but I wanted to try to make the shape I had in mind anyway - as an exercise in developing sheet metal skills. I think I spent more time making the forms than I did on the parts themselves, but it was a fun little project!
Here are some photos of how it went together.
The first form was used to make the top and bottom halves of the case. It's made from bits and pieces of steel I had around:
Here's the top plate being hammer formed. A leather faced wood slapper was used on the sides, and a body hammer was used to work down the corners, along with a flat dolly to constrain the sides so that the hammer hits shrink the material into the corners.
Here's the formed top plate:
Then the holes for the blower were cut and stainless PEM nuts installed. The Roper Whitney hand punch could reach all but two hole locations to punch holes and set the PEMs, while the other two PEMs were set with a shop press.
Here it is with the SPAL blower:
More in the next post...
Last edited:
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #195
Heater build continued:
Next up was building the lower part of the heater case. The case sides and lower flange are made from one long strip of 18 gauge. A step was rolled along the length, which stiffens up the sides to hold the shape better, and the step also enabled use of the same hammer form that was used for making the top plate to also form a flange around the bottom of the lower case. The rolled step offset height is enough to make the top edges of the case large enough to fit the top plate inside the case, while the bottom of the case has the same profile as the formed top plate.
The step rolled long strip was wrapped around the hammer form. To keep the stepped up section of the strip from collapsing at the corner bends, I made a little filler part that slips on the hammer form legs to support the raised side of the step when bending the corners:
Here's pics of bending the strip around the hammer form:
The last corner was formed, trimmed, tacked and welded. (The weld stops short of the end since the corners all get pie cut for forming the lower flange).
This shows the pie cut corners, prior to hammer forming the lower flange over the face of the form:
Here's the formed flange , ready to weld and finish:
The fit of the top plate and lower case was then adjusted a little where needed with hammer and dolly. When the fit was finished up, then both parts were punched and PEM nuts were set in the long flanges of the top plate to accept stainless button head screws through the case sides. Here's the case parts assembled:
The next step was to make a vent scoop to point some heated air towards the driver side...
Next up was building the lower part of the heater case. The case sides and lower flange are made from one long strip of 18 gauge. A step was rolled along the length, which stiffens up the sides to hold the shape better, and the step also enabled use of the same hammer form that was used for making the top plate to also form a flange around the bottom of the lower case. The rolled step offset height is enough to make the top edges of the case large enough to fit the top plate inside the case, while the bottom of the case has the same profile as the formed top plate.
The step rolled long strip was wrapped around the hammer form. To keep the stepped up section of the strip from collapsing at the corner bends, I made a little filler part that slips on the hammer form legs to support the raised side of the step when bending the corners:
Here's pics of bending the strip around the hammer form:
The last corner was formed, trimmed, tacked and welded. (The weld stops short of the end since the corners all get pie cut for forming the lower flange).
This shows the pie cut corners, prior to hammer forming the lower flange over the face of the form:
Here's the formed flange , ready to weld and finish:
The fit of the top plate and lower case was then adjusted a little where needed with hammer and dolly. When the fit was finished up, then both parts were punched and PEM nuts were set in the long flanges of the top plate to accept stainless button head screws through the case sides. Here's the case parts assembled:
The next step was to make a vent scoop to point some heated air towards the driver side...
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #196
Heater continued some more
Another form was made to make the shape for the driver side vent scoop. The first pic is the form. The second shows parts of the form: a 180 degree bend in a 1" tube was cut into two pieces that define the radiused sides of the vent. The flat stock was formed to match the curve of the tubes. Side plates were cut to fit the tube curve, and all the stuff was stitch welded together and the welds filed flat.
The formed vent scoop welds to the inside edges of the lower case flanges- so it's width needed to be controlled pretty closely. The width of the form made it easier to make the initial bends match the case flange opening. The straight section of the form was made long enough to do this initial forming step. Then the sides of the vent scoop panel were cut in preparation to bend the panel to match the large radius curved shape.
The end of the vent panel was then bent down using a slapper - a little at a time to form the curved end. Each step with the slapper made the radiused sides wrinkle. The peaks of the wrinkles were then worked down with a body hammer and dolly, shrinking the material into itself until smooth again. This was repeated until the panel matched the form. Then the joints at the side were welded and finished, and the height trimmed to final size.
The vent scoop was then stitch welded to the edges of the lower case flanges:
The case assembly mounts to the lower flange of the dash and to the nearby firewall roll cage flange. I was trying to avoid mounting bolts sticking out through the firewall as the original Willys/Harrison heater mounts did. The mounts to the dash panel rest on top of the dash flange, so you can lift the assembly up into the dash space, slide it onto the top of the flange, and rest its weight on the flange while inserting the attachment screws. Here's the case with the mounting brackets welded in place:
Here's the new (L) and old (R) firewall roll cage reinforcement brackets. The new one provides a mounting tab for the heater.
Another form was made to make the shape for the driver side vent scoop. The first pic is the form. The second shows parts of the form: a 180 degree bend in a 1" tube was cut into two pieces that define the radiused sides of the vent. The flat stock was formed to match the curve of the tubes. Side plates were cut to fit the tube curve, and all the stuff was stitch welded together and the welds filed flat.
The formed vent scoop welds to the inside edges of the lower case flanges- so it's width needed to be controlled pretty closely. The width of the form made it easier to make the initial bends match the case flange opening. The straight section of the form was made long enough to do this initial forming step. Then the sides of the vent scoop panel were cut in preparation to bend the panel to match the large radius curved shape.
The end of the vent panel was then bent down using a slapper - a little at a time to form the curved end. Each step with the slapper made the radiused sides wrinkle. The peaks of the wrinkles were then worked down with a body hammer and dolly, shrinking the material into itself until smooth again. This was repeated until the panel matched the form. Then the joints at the side were welded and finished, and the height trimmed to final size.
The vent scoop was then stitch welded to the edges of the lower case flanges:
The case assembly mounts to the lower flange of the dash and to the nearby firewall roll cage flange. I was trying to avoid mounting bolts sticking out through the firewall as the original Willys/Harrison heater mounts did. The mounts to the dash panel rest on top of the dash flange, so you can lift the assembly up into the dash space, slide it onto the top of the flange, and rest its weight on the flange while inserting the attachment screws. Here's the case with the mounting brackets welded in place:
Here's the new (L) and old (R) firewall roll cage reinforcement brackets. The new one provides a mounting tab for the heater.
Last edited:
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #197
Heater wrap up
A piece of stainless screen panel was cut to mount inside the case to protect the aluminum core. Heat resistant silicon rubber strips will get wrapped around the screen edges to keep it from rattling, and will be attached after the case is painted. The core is positioned in the case with some foam that came from Northern case. The new case is shallower than the Northern case, but still provides about 1.5" of space between the blower and core for in coming air to distribute across the face of the core. The core inlet & outlet tubes are shown at their stock length. They will be shortened and transition to AN fittings that will lead to bulkhead fittings through the firewall when the plumbing gets done. Here's some pics of the assembled heater:
Here it is installed:
Kind of a crazy mini-project, but I'm happy with how it turned out.
A piece of stainless screen panel was cut to mount inside the case to protect the aluminum core. Heat resistant silicon rubber strips will get wrapped around the screen edges to keep it from rattling, and will be attached after the case is painted. The core is positioned in the case with some foam that came from Northern case. The new case is shallower than the Northern case, but still provides about 1.5" of space between the blower and core for in coming air to distribute across the face of the core. The core inlet & outlet tubes are shown at their stock length. They will be shortened and transition to AN fittings that will lead to bulkhead fittings through the firewall when the plumbing gets done. Here's some pics of the assembled heater:
Here it is installed:
Kind of a crazy mini-project, but I'm happy with how it turned out.
Will be interesting to hear how the heater works for you. I'm on the fence of doing an 12v electric AC/heater and ditching the Nissan heater some previous owner put in there. I want something that will keep the windshield clear in the winter and of course the AC cooling in the summer will be more drive time.
On another note is that the original Willys steering wheel or an aftermarket with the original Willys center cap?
On another note is that the original Willys steering wheel or an aftermarket with the original Willys center cap?
That heater turned out phenomenal.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #200
I’m equally interested in your 12v AC/heater idea! That sounds really great. I’d never heard of those before you mentioned in your build. Hoping to see more!
The steering wheel is a repro of a vintage bathtub Porsche 356. It’s made by Limeworks, a hot rod shop. The horn button is an original Willys wagon button that I adapted to the horn mechanism that I bought with the wheel. There’s a post on it earlier in the thread, page 6.
Last edited:
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #202
Front Fenders - initial work
The front fenders are raised 3.25" above stock. (the rear wheel well openings are also raised, and the top edge of the planned new rear tub is about 1.5 taller than stock. The raised fenders provide more articulation tire clearance, and also change the proportions of the hood. The hood sides will be less tall than a stock 3B hood, but taller than a 2A/3A - which I think will look well proportioned. The engine bay is also longer than stock. The amount of raise of the fenders (which moves them forward due to the angle of the fender mounting surface on the body tub) and the amount of engine compartment stretch allows the use of stock length fender tops.
I plan to use the original fender tops, but make new, longer rear fender panels, and new reconfigured inner fender panels. Some of this will get tackled later, but I wanted to get the fender tops positioned at their final height with the beginnings of the inner fenders as the first step so they could be mounted to the grill. With the height firmed, then the body side vent panels behind the fender at the leading edge of the body can be sized and built, followed by the back fender panel and back inner fender section.
Moving the fenders up above the grill taper corner also moves the fenders outward. This should work well with the new body tub 60” width, which is + 1.25" wider than stock on each side. (Even with the body width increase, the fenders and body tub are still narrower than the outer width of the new axles and tires).
I had previously made grill mounts on the frame rails, but needed to secure the top of the grill so I'd have a stable reference for building the fenders. A simple welded tab was added to the engine bay cage hoop. Threaded inserts were added to the tab and the grill, and they were bridged with a steel strap. The strap is thin enough that I think it will maintain position, but flex a little to reduce stress on the grill. The strap sits in the grill recess that clears the center flanges of the stock hood, so the strap and screws sit below the grill webbing that cushions the hood. I’m thinking I’ll either make a 1 piece hood with no center flanges, or just trim the flanges at the strap screws.
With the grill in place, the fender tops were removed from the old inner fenders and braces, then mocked up in position on the body:
With the fenders mocked in place, the front section of the inner fender panels was puzzled out. They mount to the grill edge like stock fenders, include an opening around the shocks, and butt weld to the fender tops. The back half of the inner fender panels will be separate. I'm intending the back inner panel section to screw in place after the main fender is mounted. This allows the fender with front inner panel to slide into place around the shock without removing the shock.
Here's the front section of the inner fender panels taking shape. The first bend is a sharp 90 degree bend. The second is a radius bend to allow the panel to follow the curve of the grill corner.
The shock openings were then cut and their edges hammer formed into a small flange. A simple form was made out of a piece of steel plate for the radius shock opening edges and corners (shown on the left panel). The formed edge stiffens the panel and provides a smoother edge. The panels were then fit to the fender tops, and then tacked. There’s also small filler pieces welded in the top inside front corners of the original fender top to fill the space created by the angled front corner of the stock fender panel when it was moved up onto the vertical side of the grill.
Continued in the next post...
The front fenders are raised 3.25" above stock. (the rear wheel well openings are also raised, and the top edge of the planned new rear tub is about 1.5 taller than stock. The raised fenders provide more articulation tire clearance, and also change the proportions of the hood. The hood sides will be less tall than a stock 3B hood, but taller than a 2A/3A - which I think will look well proportioned. The engine bay is also longer than stock. The amount of raise of the fenders (which moves them forward due to the angle of the fender mounting surface on the body tub) and the amount of engine compartment stretch allows the use of stock length fender tops.
I plan to use the original fender tops, but make new, longer rear fender panels, and new reconfigured inner fender panels. Some of this will get tackled later, but I wanted to get the fender tops positioned at their final height with the beginnings of the inner fenders as the first step so they could be mounted to the grill. With the height firmed, then the body side vent panels behind the fender at the leading edge of the body can be sized and built, followed by the back fender panel and back inner fender section.
Moving the fenders up above the grill taper corner also moves the fenders outward. This should work well with the new body tub 60” width, which is + 1.25" wider than stock on each side. (Even with the body width increase, the fenders and body tub are still narrower than the outer width of the new axles and tires).
I had previously made grill mounts on the frame rails, but needed to secure the top of the grill so I'd have a stable reference for building the fenders. A simple welded tab was added to the engine bay cage hoop. Threaded inserts were added to the tab and the grill, and they were bridged with a steel strap. The strap is thin enough that I think it will maintain position, but flex a little to reduce stress on the grill. The strap sits in the grill recess that clears the center flanges of the stock hood, so the strap and screws sit below the grill webbing that cushions the hood. I’m thinking I’ll either make a 1 piece hood with no center flanges, or just trim the flanges at the strap screws.
With the grill in place, the fender tops were removed from the old inner fenders and braces, then mocked up in position on the body:
With the fenders mocked in place, the front section of the inner fender panels was puzzled out. They mount to the grill edge like stock fenders, include an opening around the shocks, and butt weld to the fender tops. The back half of the inner fender panels will be separate. I'm intending the back inner panel section to screw in place after the main fender is mounted. This allows the fender with front inner panel to slide into place around the shock without removing the shock.
Here's the front section of the inner fender panels taking shape. The first bend is a sharp 90 degree bend. The second is a radius bend to allow the panel to follow the curve of the grill corner.
The shock openings were then cut and their edges hammer formed into a small flange. A simple form was made out of a piece of steel plate for the radius shock opening edges and corners (shown on the left panel). The formed edge stiffens the panel and provides a smoother edge. The panels were then fit to the fender tops, and then tacked. There’s also small filler pieces welded in the top inside front corners of the original fender top to fill the space created by the angled front corner of the stock fender panel when it was moved up onto the vertical side of the grill.
Continued in the next post...
Last edited:
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #203
Front fenders continued
The inner panels were then fully welded to the fender tops , then the assembly was fit in place to mark and drill the mounting holes for attachment to the stock grill / fender mount nuts.
Here they are in place. These pics also show how the small filler piece at the front edge of the inner panel is welded to the angled leading edge of the fender top to fill the gap where it meets the grill.
In the photos, the shocks are at a mostly drooped axle position. They move forward when compressed. Based on prior measurements I think the shocks will still clear the panel opening at full stuff, but I need to fully cycle it again to make sure. If there's a clearance issue I can open up the panel hole a bit, and reform the flanged edge.
I’m going to make a longer rear fender panel that butt welds to the original top, rather than the lap weld approach of the old fender. I think I can get the edges to line up, and that will be less prone to rust than the lap joint. The rear fender and rear inner fender panels will be made after making the side vent panels that will fit in the triangle space between the firewall and fender.
This post completes the transfer of build thread info from the prior CJ3BL build thread on the old site. Phew! Glad it’s done!
In the transfer and rebuild of this thread, I didn’t copy and paste old site member feedback and conversation posts that occurred in that build thread as I don’t have the right to their content, and also because the comments would have gotten tangled given the simplifications I made in describing build details of stuff that was later changed or abandoned. The insights and inputs were technically and motivationally invaluable during the progression of the build, and some of the key inputs are summarized in this new thread. Thanks to everyone who helped steer this project in the right direction on the old site, and to folks here on Irate who continue to do the same! Much appreciated!
The next few posts will cover work that occurred after I stopped posting on the old site, and then the posts will be in real time.
The inner panels were then fully welded to the fender tops , then the assembly was fit in place to mark and drill the mounting holes for attachment to the stock grill / fender mount nuts.
Here they are in place. These pics also show how the small filler piece at the front edge of the inner panel is welded to the angled leading edge of the fender top to fill the gap where it meets the grill.
In the photos, the shocks are at a mostly drooped axle position. They move forward when compressed. Based on prior measurements I think the shocks will still clear the panel opening at full stuff, but I need to fully cycle it again to make sure. If there's a clearance issue I can open up the panel hole a bit, and reform the flanged edge.
I’m going to make a longer rear fender panel that butt welds to the original top, rather than the lap weld approach of the old fender. I think I can get the edges to line up, and that will be less prone to rust than the lap joint. The rear fender and rear inner fender panels will be made after making the side vent panels that will fit in the triangle space between the firewall and fender.
This post completes the transfer of build thread info from the prior CJ3BL build thread on the old site. Phew! Glad it’s done!
In the transfer and rebuild of this thread, I didn’t copy and paste old site member feedback and conversation posts that occurred in that build thread as I don’t have the right to their content, and also because the comments would have gotten tangled given the simplifications I made in describing build details of stuff that was later changed or abandoned. The insights and inputs were technically and motivationally invaluable during the progression of the build, and some of the key inputs are summarized in this new thread. Thanks to everyone who helped steer this project in the right direction on the old site, and to folks here on Irate who continue to do the same! Much appreciated!
The next few posts will cover work that occurred after I stopped posting on the old site, and then the posts will be in real time.
This thing is gonna be so nice you won't be able to wheel it. It'll have to go in a museum.
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #205
Aw shucks, thanks for the kudos! I tend see the areas that I think I could have done better.
It's intended to be more of a capable forest road / trail cruiser than a hard core crawler, so won't get beat real hard. I like learning and doing the fab work, and aesthetically trying for a traditional wheeler crossed with a little bit of traditional hot rod. Thanks for the very nice comment!
It's intended to be more of a capable forest road / trail cruiser than a hard core crawler, so won't get beat real hard. I like learning and doing the fab work, and aesthetically trying for a traditional wheeler crossed with a little bit of traditional hot rod. Thanks for the very nice comment!
gt1guy
Apparently a racist
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #208
Body Hammer Forms
Decided to hold on the front fender work for a little while. The back of the fenders will mount to triangular vent panels that fill the space between the fender slope and the firewall. The vent panels attach to the firewall flanges built previously, with the front body panel flange also attached to the face of the firewall flange (sandwiched between the firewall flange and vent panel). I figured it would be best to fit the body panel first, then make the vents to fit, then finish the fenders when the mounting surface they attach to is in place.
So on to making the body tub panels!
I'm trying to make the outer body panels relatively easy to reproduce, and not too hard to replace if they get too bashed up. The idea being to not load them up with armor plating, and instead just make new panels if they get too beat.
The panels will be hammer formed to create the rolled over edge along the top of the body as in the original tub, and will also have a flange formed along the bottom to attach to the rock slider tubes and wheel arches. The panels will join to each other at the doors similar to the stock body, except they will have mating flanges rather than a lap joint. At the rear of the tub, the rear corner panel will be one piece from the tailgate to the top of the wheel arch, and will have a flange at that point to join to the front side panel. In other words, the long, rust prone, vertical flanged butt joint at the rear of the stock body is replaced by a short flanged butt joint at the top of the wheel arch.
The rear corners will have a smaller 1.5" radius vs. 3" stock radius, as this enables the C roll cage tubes to be positioned farther outward and rearward at the center of the corner radius vs the stock body.
Since the hammer forming will be aggressive at some tighter radius areas, I didn't want to just use plywood or MDF for the hammer forms as it could get pretty beat up - so came up what an approach using steel for the forming surfaces and MDF will be used for the clamping cauls. The main forms are made from 3/4" x 3/4" and 3/16" x 3/4" CR steel bar along the top of the tub, 1 1/4" x 3/4" bar along the bottom straight flange areas, and 1 1/4" x 3/16" bar over the wheel arches. The rear corners were cut from 1 1/2" x 3/4".
Pics will make this stuff a little clearer... hopefully the hammer forming approach will all work!
Started at the rear corners, which have a 1.5" outer radius on the formed panel. Four pieces of 1.5" x 3/4" were finished on two sides with a file, then the corners were rough cut with a 45 degree saw cut. The pieces were then stacked together and tacked, and the radius finished with a grinder and files. Here's the tacked stack of corner pieces, and the separated parts after cutting the tacks:
The next pics show the pieces, including the radiused corner parts above, that comprise the rear facing part of rear quarter panel from. This part of the panel form spans from the tailgate supports to the radiused rear corners. You can see that there are chamfers at the areas where the parts weld together. The sides facing the sheet metal panel will have the welds ground flat, so chamfering is important to preserve weld integrity after grinding.
The parts were then welded together, then ground and filed smooth where they face the body panel when forming. Then the form was clamped in position on the frame bumper and tailgate support, as shown.
The body panel will have a flat flange hammer formed around the bottom of this form, and the top of the panel will be formed into an inverted U shape over and down the inside of the top form bar to create the same top edge inverted U shape as the stock body. At the B and C roll cage pillars the top panel edge will transition from the inverted U channel shape to a flat flange. At these points, button head stainless screws will attach the flat panel flange to flat support brackets on the cage B and C pillars. The flat panel flange shape at those points enables simple attachment to the cage, and will make the flange at the body corner radius easier to form. The stock body has a separate stamped reinforcement channel part welded inside the inverted U top edge of the body. Instead of this, I'm thinking that attaching the panels to the cage along the top of the panel provides enough support of the panel to eliminate the need for the separate reinforcement part under the top edge.
These rear facing parts of the quarter panel forms attach with screws to mating side facing forms. The formed rear quarter panels will wrap from the tailgate supports to the top of the rear wheel well. I plan to initially form the corner radius in the sheet metal panel using a shop press with a 3" diameter bar as the top form, then attach the 90 degree panel to the hammer form, clamping it in place with flat MDF cauls and a 1/4 section of aluminum tube on the outside to the formed radius corner, - then hammer form all the flanges and top edge.
The rear and side facing sections of the quarter panel forms are separable for two reasons:
With the rear facing parts of each form clamped in position with the dummy flange pieces, then the side part of each form was fabbed.
To hammer form a sheet metal flange on the panel that closely follows and attaches to the wheel arch tubes, the lower part of each form was made so that its curvature follows the wheel arch plus panel sheet metal flange thickness. At the same time it needed to be rigid enough to not flex from the hammer blows when forming the panel. To accomplish this, one section of 1 1/4" x 3/8" bar was formed the easy direction to provide a forming surface for a flange as wide as 1 1/4" that is a close fit to the wheel arch, while it is reinforced for rigidity and ease of caul clamping with a bar of the same material formed the hard way. These pieces were formed and fitted to each whole wheel arch, then cut to separate them into rear and front form sections, since there will be a panel joint will be at the top of the wheel arch.
Here's a pic of part rolling, using a SWAG roller. This one is in the "easy direction": I forgot to take a pic of the hard direction rolling, but it's the same approach, just with a different set of dies.
A light touch and gradually rolling the shape was really important. If too aggressive, the shape becomes irregular and can overshoot making the radius too tight. It's a little tricky to achieve an accurate fit to the similarly formed wheel arch, so I was careful to sneak up on it, checking frequently by pulling the part from the roller and fitting the part to the wheel arch and dummy flange strip, lightly clamping it starting at one end and working along the length checking for gaps using a feeler gauge. In some spots where the radius was locally a little too tight, I clamped the part in my vice as shown in the pic to tweak the tighter curvature to be more uniform with it's adjacent areas. In other spots where it was locally too flat, it would get rolled a bit more just in that area. Once completed, each free standing unclamped part fit closely, and when lightly clamped was within about 0.005" gap with the feeler gauge.
Continued in next post...
Decided to hold on the front fender work for a little while. The back of the fenders will mount to triangular vent panels that fill the space between the fender slope and the firewall. The vent panels attach to the firewall flanges built previously, with the front body panel flange also attached to the face of the firewall flange (sandwiched between the firewall flange and vent panel). I figured it would be best to fit the body panel first, then make the vents to fit, then finish the fenders when the mounting surface they attach to is in place.
So on to making the body tub panels!
I'm trying to make the outer body panels relatively easy to reproduce, and not too hard to replace if they get too bashed up. The idea being to not load them up with armor plating, and instead just make new panels if they get too beat.
The panels will be hammer formed to create the rolled over edge along the top of the body as in the original tub, and will also have a flange formed along the bottom to attach to the rock slider tubes and wheel arches. The panels will join to each other at the doors similar to the stock body, except they will have mating flanges rather than a lap joint. At the rear of the tub, the rear corner panel will be one piece from the tailgate to the top of the wheel arch, and will have a flange at that point to join to the front side panel. In other words, the long, rust prone, vertical flanged butt joint at the rear of the stock body is replaced by a short flanged butt joint at the top of the wheel arch.
The rear corners will have a smaller 1.5" radius vs. 3" stock radius, as this enables the C roll cage tubes to be positioned farther outward and rearward at the center of the corner radius vs the stock body.
Since the hammer forming will be aggressive at some tighter radius areas, I didn't want to just use plywood or MDF for the hammer forms as it could get pretty beat up - so came up what an approach using steel for the forming surfaces and MDF will be used for the clamping cauls. The main forms are made from 3/4" x 3/4" and 3/16" x 3/4" CR steel bar along the top of the tub, 1 1/4" x 3/4" bar along the bottom straight flange areas, and 1 1/4" x 3/16" bar over the wheel arches. The rear corners were cut from 1 1/2" x 3/4".
Pics will make this stuff a little clearer... hopefully the hammer forming approach will all work!
Started at the rear corners, which have a 1.5" outer radius on the formed panel. Four pieces of 1.5" x 3/4" were finished on two sides with a file, then the corners were rough cut with a 45 degree saw cut. The pieces were then stacked together and tacked, and the radius finished with a grinder and files. Here's the tacked stack of corner pieces, and the separated parts after cutting the tacks:
The next pics show the pieces, including the radiused corner parts above, that comprise the rear facing part of rear quarter panel from. This part of the panel form spans from the tailgate supports to the radiused rear corners. You can see that there are chamfers at the areas where the parts weld together. The sides facing the sheet metal panel will have the welds ground flat, so chamfering is important to preserve weld integrity after grinding.
The parts were then welded together, then ground and filed smooth where they face the body panel when forming. Then the form was clamped in position on the frame bumper and tailgate support, as shown.
The body panel will have a flat flange hammer formed around the bottom of this form, and the top of the panel will be formed into an inverted U shape over and down the inside of the top form bar to create the same top edge inverted U shape as the stock body. At the B and C roll cage pillars the top panel edge will transition from the inverted U channel shape to a flat flange. At these points, button head stainless screws will attach the flat panel flange to flat support brackets on the cage B and C pillars. The flat panel flange shape at those points enables simple attachment to the cage, and will make the flange at the body corner radius easier to form. The stock body has a separate stamped reinforcement channel part welded inside the inverted U top edge of the body. Instead of this, I'm thinking that attaching the panels to the cage along the top of the panel provides enough support of the panel to eliminate the need for the separate reinforcement part under the top edge.
These rear facing parts of the quarter panel forms attach with screws to mating side facing forms. The formed rear quarter panels will wrap from the tailgate supports to the top of the rear wheel well. I plan to initially form the corner radius in the sheet metal panel using a shop press with a 3" diameter bar as the top form, then attach the 90 degree panel to the hammer form, clamping it in place with flat MDF cauls and a 1/4 section of aluminum tube on the outside to the formed radius corner, - then hammer form all the flanges and top edge.
The rear and side facing sections of the quarter panel forms are separable for two reasons:
- They'll be easier to store than if they were permanently welded together
- If the form halves were not separable, after hammer forming the flanges and top u shape on the panel it would not be removable from the form. I think (hope) than I'll be able to unscrew the form halves after panel forming, then remove the side form by tipping the form inward from the panel along the bottom then pulling the form downward to exit the U shaped top edge. Once the side form is removed, then the rear form should be removable with the same motion, since the side form will then be out of the way.
With the rear facing parts of each form clamped in position with the dummy flange pieces, then the side part of each form was fabbed.
To hammer form a sheet metal flange on the panel that closely follows and attaches to the wheel arch tubes, the lower part of each form was made so that its curvature follows the wheel arch plus panel sheet metal flange thickness. At the same time it needed to be rigid enough to not flex from the hammer blows when forming the panel. To accomplish this, one section of 1 1/4" x 3/8" bar was formed the easy direction to provide a forming surface for a flange as wide as 1 1/4" that is a close fit to the wheel arch, while it is reinforced for rigidity and ease of caul clamping with a bar of the same material formed the hard way. These pieces were formed and fitted to each whole wheel arch, then cut to separate them into rear and front form sections, since there will be a panel joint will be at the top of the wheel arch.
Here's a pic of part rolling, using a SWAG roller. This one is in the "easy direction": I forgot to take a pic of the hard direction rolling, but it's the same approach, just with a different set of dies.
A light touch and gradually rolling the shape was really important. If too aggressive, the shape becomes irregular and can overshoot making the radius too tight. It's a little tricky to achieve an accurate fit to the similarly formed wheel arch, so I was careful to sneak up on it, checking frequently by pulling the part from the roller and fitting the part to the wheel arch and dummy flange strip, lightly clamping it starting at one end and working along the length checking for gaps using a feeler gauge. In some spots where the radius was locally a little too tight, I clamped the part in my vice as shown in the pic to tweak the tighter curvature to be more uniform with it's adjacent areas. In other spots where it was locally too flat, it would get rolled a bit more just in that area. Once completed, each free standing unclamped part fit closely, and when lightly clamped was within about 0.005" gap with the feeler gauge.
Continued in next post...
Last edited:
dnsfailure
WHAT GEAR ARE YOU IN?
that's beefy, I like it 
. How do you like that roller?
. How do you like that roller?
CJ3BL
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #210
With the wheel arch "easy" rolled pieces fitted, then the reinforcement "hard" rolled parts were made and fitted to them. Here's the hard direction parts in their initial fit to the rolled easy direction parts:
Both parts were then cut at the planned panel butt joint location at the top of the wheel arch. to then assemble into their respective rear quarter panel and front side panel hammer form assemblies. Then the rear arch parts and the straight section parts were cut, fit, and welded to complete the side facing sections of each rear quarter panel form, in steps shown in the next pics. The last photo shows the addition of two braces made from 3/4" square tube. These further support the form edges to minimize form flex during panel hammer forming.
Prior to adding the braces, I noticed that the stitch welds on the arched pieces caused some slight tightening of the arch radius due to weld shrinkage- creating a little bit of gap the frame arch at the mid point of the form arch span. Hardly noticeable on the passenger side form, but more noticeable on the driver side. I already planned to add the braces to provide support of the arch, and realized that they provided an opportunity to potentially remedy the weld shrink effect on the arch shape. The braces were fit with a little pre-load - ie they were cut to be a little too tight for the space. I fit them in and tacked them by using a reversed clamp as a spreader, then final welded. The pre-load of the braces counteracted the stitch weld shrinkage to successfully return the arch back into a good fit along its length.
With the rear quarter panel forms done, work proceeded to the side panel forms that span from the top of the wheel arch to the door "angle joint". This panel is longer than stock in its back section as part of the overall wheelbase stretch, but I wanted the curved door profile section to have the same shape as stock. The total door opening is stretched 4" vs. stock, but that stretch is all in front of the angle joint, extending the flat area of the front of the door opening. This 4" door stretch in front part of the door opening makes the tub wider than stock by an inch on each side, as planned.
This side panel form started with tracing the stock door shape onto some art board so I could use it as a pattern to check rolling/forming of the curved rear door profile. I traced my other 3B that has a stock body. This part of the forms used 3/4' x 3/8" bar - 3/4 wide to continue the stock width inverted U shape at the top of the panel, and 3/8' thick to make it easier to form the curves. The upper larger radius curve was rolled using the SWAG roller, while the lower tighter curve that reverses direction was formed in the shop press with a 3" diameter bar mounted on top, stepping the bends a little at a time to make a smooth continuous curve. I tacked the driver side and passenger side pieces of bar together on one end so that they would receive the same freehand forming steps along the way so they'd closely match each other once separated. The other ends were clamped together, which kept them aligned to each other, but slippage at the clamp jaws allowed some slip of the inner and outer bar surfaces to not constrain the bend forming. The forming was done a little at a time, checking fit to the pattern frequently till the fit was dialed in. Here's some pics that show the pattern, the press forming set up, and final fit to the pattern:
The 3/8" thick door profile bar was reinforced with a part set perpendicular to it. Given the small radius curves of the door, this was cut from a scrap of 1/4 plate rather than rolling /bending in the hard direction of a bar as was done for the wheel arch. This shot shows how the curved door section was set up for welding with the reinforcement plate and the straight 3/4" square sections for the top of the tub and the flat part of the door opening which are set parallel to each other,
More in next post.
These forms are taking a lot of work. Once done, I think the panels will take much less time to make than the forms...
Both parts were then cut at the planned panel butt joint location at the top of the wheel arch. to then assemble into their respective rear quarter panel and front side panel hammer form assemblies. Then the rear arch parts and the straight section parts were cut, fit, and welded to complete the side facing sections of each rear quarter panel form, in steps shown in the next pics. The last photo shows the addition of two braces made from 3/4" square tube. These further support the form edges to minimize form flex during panel hammer forming.
Prior to adding the braces, I noticed that the stitch welds on the arched pieces caused some slight tightening of the arch radius due to weld shrinkage- creating a little bit of gap the frame arch at the mid point of the form arch span. Hardly noticeable on the passenger side form, but more noticeable on the driver side. I already planned to add the braces to provide support of the arch, and realized that they provided an opportunity to potentially remedy the weld shrink effect on the arch shape. The braces were fit with a little pre-load - ie they were cut to be a little too tight for the space. I fit them in and tacked them by using a reversed clamp as a spreader, then final welded. The pre-load of the braces counteracted the stitch weld shrinkage to successfully return the arch back into a good fit along its length.
With the rear quarter panel forms done, work proceeded to the side panel forms that span from the top of the wheel arch to the door "angle joint". This panel is longer than stock in its back section as part of the overall wheelbase stretch, but I wanted the curved door profile section to have the same shape as stock. The total door opening is stretched 4" vs. stock, but that stretch is all in front of the angle joint, extending the flat area of the front of the door opening. This 4" door stretch in front part of the door opening makes the tub wider than stock by an inch on each side, as planned.
This side panel form started with tracing the stock door shape onto some art board so I could use it as a pattern to check rolling/forming of the curved rear door profile. I traced my other 3B that has a stock body. This part of the forms used 3/4' x 3/8" bar - 3/4 wide to continue the stock width inverted U shape at the top of the panel, and 3/8' thick to make it easier to form the curves. The upper larger radius curve was rolled using the SWAG roller, while the lower tighter curve that reverses direction was formed in the shop press with a 3" diameter bar mounted on top, stepping the bends a little at a time to make a smooth continuous curve. I tacked the driver side and passenger side pieces of bar together on one end so that they would receive the same freehand forming steps along the way so they'd closely match each other once separated. The other ends were clamped together, which kept them aligned to each other, but slippage at the clamp jaws allowed some slip of the inner and outer bar surfaces to not constrain the bend forming. The forming was done a little at a time, checking fit to the pattern frequently till the fit was dialed in. Here's some pics that show the pattern, the press forming set up, and final fit to the pattern:
The 3/8" thick door profile bar was reinforced with a part set perpendicular to it. Given the small radius curves of the door, this was cut from a scrap of 1/4 plate rather than rolling /bending in the hard direction of a bar as was done for the wheel arch. This shot shows how the curved door section was set up for welding with the reinforcement plate and the straight 3/4" square sections for the top of the tub and the flat part of the door opening which are set parallel to each other,
More in next post.
These forms are taking a lot of work. Once done, I think the panels will take much less time to make than the forms...
