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Brakes - Make better or start over?

Bebop said:
I'm sure your cutting brakes bore size and physical leverage have been carefully chosen and you didn't just throw together something hopping it would work...



BKOR has my vote, I his HB very happily.

There are different wilwood masters with the same body and different bore sizes so before saying that your master is the same, make sure you're talking about the exact same P/N.





I run my ported BKOR hydroboost with a Radial Dynamics 6 GPM pump that I sing at high RPM frequently with no steering issues at all.

The HB flows enough so why mess with anything ??????
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Never said it was carefully chosen. That’s why I’m trying to learn. There are not a lot of options out there for cutting brakes. FWIW my cutting brakes are 3/4 bore, same as my Wilwood MC’s so the math issue is the same.
My point was that if I add HB, it won’t help my cutting brake issue.
 
white-rhino said:
FWIW my cutting brakes are 3/4 bore, same as my Wilwood MC’s so the math issue is the same.
My point was that if I add HB, it won’t help my cutting brake issue.
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The ratios, travel and force are different.

But yes, you are correct on the assumption.
 
Those running hydro boost, if you stall or have a dead engine, how well do the brakes work?
 
Bebop said:
The ratios, travel and force are different.

But yes, you are correct on the assumption.
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Shouldn’t my cutting brake be better? I have dual 3/4 Wilwoods so when normalbraking I have one 3/4 bore pushing on both rear calipers. When using the cutting brake I have one 3/4 bore pushing on one caliper. TheoriticallyI should have double the brakingpower. (Assuming same throw and pressure on the lever). Admittedly I am probably pushing harder with my leg than arm.
 
white-rhino said:
Admittedly I am probably pushing harder with my leg than arm.
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Oh yeah. huge difference.

Go on a leg press machine and try to do it with your arms and let me know how it goes.

pennsylvaniaboy said:
Those running hydro boost, if you stall or have a dead engine, how well do the brakes work?
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Fine for me. But yeah you gotta push the pedal hard.

Remeber there is an accumulator so you get 2 or 3 assisted brake applications with the engine off before it fades off.
 
Bebop said:
Oh yeah. huge difference.

Go on a leg press machine and try to do it with your arms and let me know how it goes.



Fine for me. But yeah you gotta push the pedal hard.

Remeber there is an accumulator so you get 2 or 3 assisted brake applications with the engine off before it fades off.
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So if HB won’t help my cutting brakes and my arms are wimpy, what are my options?
 
Jeffh555 said:
More mechanical advantage, either a longer lever or a smaller dia master cylinder on the cutting brake. Either one will increase the throw of the handle.
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This guy gets it :smokin:
 
Those options are straight forward but honestly don’t offer a viable solution. Cutting brakes seem to come in one size. I would say my throw right now is close to12” so adding lever is not an option.

I’d like to think that changing calipers and or pads would help but math is math and I don’t have the mechanics to lock up a 42” tire.
I may just have to live with it.

I’m wondering that with HB I could lock up the brakes and then hold it with the CB.
 
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white-rhino said:
Those options are straight forward but honestly don’t offer a viable solution. Cutting brakes seem to come in one size. I would say my throw right now is close to12” so adding lever is not an option.

I’d like to think that changing calipers and or pads would help but math is math and I don’t have the mechanics to lock up a 42” tire.
I may just have to live with it.

I’m wondering that with HB I could lock up the brakes and then hold it with the CB.
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If you could get a bigger piston caliper it would help, but then more pedal travel or more cutting brake travel would be the result.

You are pushing the pedal, then reefing on the cutters, then releasing the pedal currently, right?
 
Sterlingfire said:
www.tdsideas.com

Remote Hydroboost Mounting Kit

This kit is designed to remotely mount your hydroboost unit. If you don't like the looks of it mounted on the firewall or don't have room for it, use this kit to mount it anywhere you have space.
www.tdsideas.com

It's actually 22" end of mc to mc. 6" at the widest point of the booster.
Mine is going to end up behind the cab. There are other things allocated to that spot now lol.

The site tells you which slave cylinder to use, and the mc is just from a mini truck.
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Anyone know if these kits will fit the hydroboost unit out of an 00s Ford Superduty/Excursion?

The local deadbeat who's at the pick'n'pull every day has GM hydroboosts on his "list" so unless show up at open one day they have a new van and fight him for it I'm not getting one.
 
Based on the link, I think that's what it's for? They say F350/E450, but probably do some part # cross ref to see if Excursion is same.

www.badgertrek.com

BadgerTrek: Sportsmobile base Ford E350

www.badgertrek.com

There are some aftermarket brake setups available, using larger rotors, harsher pads, and so on, but they are very expensive (thousands of $). We decided to start out by retrofitting an E450 hydroboost unit to our van to see how a change here would affect things. The E450 hydroboost (and the F350 truck) use a 1.56" diameter power piston. The stock vacuum booster is a dual diaphragm with effective diameter of 13.46" (data obtained from Ford body-builders' handbooks for each).
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JohnnyJ said:
Based on the link, I think that's what it's for? They say F350/E450, but probably do some part # cross ref to see if Excursion is same.

www.badgertrek.com

BadgerTrek: Sportsmobile base Ford E350

www.badgertrek.com
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That van doesn't use the relocation system... it's still mounted on the firewall.

As far as if the threads on the ford booster and gm booster are the same, that's a good question. In the description for the kit, it does not give any manufacturer to use the hb from. I have a hard time believing all the manufacturers used the same thread to retain the mount plate throughout all the years, but I've been surprised before:laughing:
 
arse_sidewards said:
Anyone know if these kits will fit the hydroboost unit out of an 00s Ford Superduty/Excursion?

The local deadbeat who's at the pick'n'pull every day has GM hydroboosts on his "list" so unless show up at open one day they have a new van and fight him for it I'm not getting one.
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Why not go on marketplace to find a part out vehicle in the gm 2500hd/3500hd flavor or anything with a diesel to get the unit? Or just bring a bat and fuck the dude up, take what you want:lmao:
 
Sterlingfire said:
I have a hard time believing all the manufacturers used the same thread to retain the mount plate throughout all the years, but I've been surprised before:laughing:
Click to expand...

I wonder if one supplier was making them all, and it standardized it?
 
JohnnyJ said:
I wonder if one supplier was making them all, and it standardized it?
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That could be. It's just a part of the casting that they threaded for mounting purposes. I don't have anything other than gm hb units or i would take mine apart to check it out... if someone could come up with one, you know I'm traveling the state as always lol
 
:homer:... In this day and age is there not an electric over hydraulic brake generator?
Electric pedal that controls a pump. Similar to a drive by wire fuel pedal. ABS systems can autostabilize a car so why cant they apply the brakes?
Something in the junk yard has got to have this technology its not rocket science.
 
Things like Toyota hybrids have them back in the mid 2000s. There's so much other stuff tied in though I'm not sure what it would take to make stand alone. Those cars typically have small calipers though.

I'm sure there's something else out there jist that's what came to mind.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
:homer:... In this day and age is there not an electric over hydraulic brake generator?
Electric pedal that controls a pump. Similar to a drive by wire fuel pedal. ABS systems can autostabilize a car so why cant they apply the brakes?
Something in the junk yard has got to have this technology its not rocket science.
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Every stability control system has this capability. They have an isolate and dump solenoid for each wheel, and an isolate and dump for each circuit that can use the pump to build pressure without the driver pressing the brake.

But I think you could use a cheap ABS controller and use the isolate on 3 channels and then just apply the brake. The big questions is how long the solenoids could be left on before over heating.
 
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Sterlingfire said:
Same as if you have a vacuum booster... very stiff
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Sooo imy my pedal isnt very stiff when stalled...like it goes to the floor..... what does that mean.

I tested my booster with a vacuum pump. It will build 20" of vacuum, but drops to zero in about 2 min.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
:homer:... In this day and age is there not an electric over hydraulic brake generator?
Electric pedal that controls a pump. Similar to a drive by wire fuel pedal. ABS systems can autostabilize a car so why cant they apply the brakes?
Something in the junk yard has got to have this technology its not rocket science.
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There is.

I have one in the shop, bench tested it, works great.

It's bigger than a hydroboost though.

s-l1600.jpg
 
pennsylvaniaboy said:
Sooo imy my pedal isnt very stiff when stalled...like it goes to the floor..... what does that mean.

I tested my booster with a vacuum pump. It will build 20" of vacuum, but drops to zero in about 2 min.
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No idea if you vaccum pump is fucked, or your booster is fucked, or both.

It doesn't matter anyways since you're gonna be operating the vehicle with the engine on.

When your engine is running, what dos the pedal do ?

JohnnyJ said:
I wonder if one supplier was making them all, and it standardized it?
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All the hydroboosts are bendix units.
 
Bebop said:
No idea if you vaccum pump is fucked, or your booster is fucked, or both.

It doesn't matter anyways since you're gonna be operating the vehicle with the engine on.

When your engine is running, what dos the pedal do ?


All the hydroboosts are bendix units.
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lol, its soft with long travel, doesnt seem to build pressure like it should. As mentioned above even with the engine off etc, its like pumping doesnt do much. Im like ready to park this dumb thing....Id sooner build a cage then mess with this BS.

Again, Im using stock 60 single piston calipers, and the typlical d44 rear calipers.
 
arse_sidewards said:
What's it off of and can I drive it without incurring the overhead of digital electronics?
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Tesla. I don't understand the question. Can you reformulate assuming that I am a complete morron ?
 
Bebop said:
Tesla. I don't understand the question. Can you reformulate assuming that I am a complete morron ?
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Does it need a PWM signal or CANBUS and all the supporting computer systems that implies to "do booster stuff" or can I fudge it with resistors and cheap analog trickery?
 
If you want a variable assist, you need electronics.
If you want it to operate at max assist all the time, you don' t.
 
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