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Boogaloo

as far as i'm aware, the boogaloo has always been a joke but to that effect, at the utter failure of the rule of law, armed revolution of the sorts that restores small government and loose order with support for individual liberty.

so of course they are making the movement out as a white supremacy group seeking anarchy and destruction. capturing the narrative is the whole point of this thread and watching how a fairly new (1 or 2 year old) concept gets quickly labeled, painted and derided out of the hands of any sort of leaderless rule-fluid morass.

Last year i was talking about it with my mom and her husband. they'd never heard the term used in any sense outside of the song and movie context. told them to keep an eye out and they would see the demonizing of it take place in the media. it's been entertaining. the other hilarious (tragic) part, is that there is actual death and violence now associated with it but it is not, never has been, a white supremacy movement. the fact that The Root paints the arrest of the one guy while quoting him as "shouting justice for george floyd as he JOINS in burning down the precinct" is comical, even if the joke is lost on the root editors and readers.



remember this dude? the lone SAS operator that stormed and liberated the hotel in kenya? peak boog :laughing:

:laughing: okay just making sure i wasnt using it wrong this whole time

and ya everyone wants the boog until they get a real boog

its fun to joke about and imagine, but not fun to have actually happen


oh and SAS guy needs more hawaiian print and patches :flipoff2:
 
:laughing: okay just making sure i wasnt using it wrong this whole time

and ya everyone wants the boog until they get a real boog

its fun to joke about and imagine, but not fun to have actually happen


oh and SAS guy needs more hawaiian print and patches :flipoff2:

hence the name from the flop of a movie, electric boogaloo 2. it wasn't a good movie, it is a fun name and sounds enticing and violence is as much a dance as anything. :laughing:


edit: yeah, no hawaiian shirt, but he was shopping :laughing:
 
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not even a little bit. charles manson wanted to sow chaos to ignite a race war, every arrest related to "boogaloo" over the summer has been in active support of the right of people to protest, peacefully generally, not peacefully otherwise.

There are MANY ill-advised libertarians who openly and actively support BLM.

The plot to kidnap the Gov was 1 step away from being labeled as "boogaloo" they just. couldn't. pin. it. down. It was BLM supporting anarchist and other second amendment and limited government supporting individuals, who blinded themselves in similar fashion to the shithead who shot the federal officer and sherrif and the one who helped ignite the police precinct (notice, no mention of arrest of connection to the many others who participated that night. likely, they didn't text with the other guy )

you realize they are also changing what the word militia means as well? They're starting to link white supremacy with militias.... it's not a good outlook for our freedom when the last resort of keeping your community safe is demonized.
 
you realize they are also changing what the word militia means as well? They're starting to link white supremacy with militias.... it's not a good outlook for our freedom when the last resort of keeping your community safe is demonized.

every milita is a white supremactists one, that is why the CNN article about NFAC is hilarious, because "there is no moral equivalency between an all black group shouting 'Black Power' and marching in unison in the streets while offering direct challanges to others....and white militias" :laughing: shit, good luck finding a white milita these days. Boogaloo, III%, whatever other hot patch you see are pretty integrated.


edit: because the constitution explicitly says "militia", that means it is racist and should be abolished :rasta:
 
as far as i'm aware, the boogaloo has always been a joke but to that effect, at the utter failure of the rule of law, armed revolution of the sorts that restores small government and loose order with support for individual liberty.

so of course they are making the movement out as a white supremacy group seeking anarchy and destruction. capturing the narrative is the whole point of this thread and watching how a fairly new (1 or 2 year old) concept gets quickly labeled, painted and derided out of the hands of any sort of leaderless rule-fluid morass.

Last year i was talking about it with my mom and her husband. they'd never heard the term used in any sense outside of the song and movie context. told them to keep an eye out and they would see the demonizing of it take place in the media. it's been entertaining. the other hilarious (tragic) part, is that there is actual death and violence now associated with it but it is not, never has been, a white supremacy movement. the fact that The Root paints the arrest of the one guy while quoting him as "shouting justice for george floyd as he JOINS in burning down the precinct" is comical, even if the joke is lost on the root editors and readers.



remember this dude? the lone SAS operator that stormed and liberated the hotel in kenya? peak boog :laughing:

i need some info about his suppressor. you seem to be in the know. ask your FBI guy what can that is
 
i need some info about his suppressor. you seem to be in the know. ask your FBI guy what can that is

i'm sure he's read your response to this thread, let me know if he reaches out to you! :flipoff2:

LWRC M6A2 in a short barrel configuration with a cerakote "flat dark earth" finish, suppressor and holographic sight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LWRC_M6

if i had to guess, according to google and wikipedia, it would be mounted on an M6A2 UCIW

https://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/weapons/uciw.php

UCIWs spotted being carried by UKSF in Afghanistan have featured Surefire suppressors
 
not even a little bit. charles manson wanted to sow chaos to ignite a race war, every arrest related to "boogaloo" over the summer has been in active support of the right of people to protest, peacefully generally, not peacefully otherwise.

There are MANY ill-advised libertarians who openly and actively support BLM.

The plot to kidnap the Gov was 1 step away from being labeled as "boogaloo" they just. couldn't. pin. it. down. It was BLM supporting anarchist and other second amendment and limited government supporting individuals, who blinded themselves in similar fashion to the shithead who shot the federal officer and sherrif and the one who helped ignite the police precinct (notice, no mention of arrest of connection to the many others who participated that night. likely, they didn't text with the other guy )

This line in the post of yours that I quoted is VERY much like Charles Manson.

But recently, an informal network of white supremacists and other hate groups have adopted the word "boogaloo" to signify an impending race war or some other form of mass violence.

That was Manson's idea, a race war.
 
This line in the post of yours that I quoted is VERY much like Charles Manson.

But recently, an informal network of white supremacists and other hate groups have adopted the word "boogaloo" to signify an impending race war or some other form of mass violence.

That was Manson's idea, a race war.

I think the biggest problem with this thread is that everyone is trying to put all these different anarchist crazies into a single group. There are antifa people running around, people who get wood thinking about civil war, criminal minded people who don't need a reason, just a mob to join, white surprenisists, way out there fringe libertarians who hate everything government, impressionable kids who go to the wrong websites, and probably some agent provocateurs and foreign power people in there as well trying to influence things. The only common thread they have is they're looking for an opportunity to cause chaos.
 
This line in the post of yours that I quoted is VERY much like Charles Manson.

But recently, an informal network of white supremacists and other hate groups have adopted the word "boogaloo" to signify an impending race war or some other form of mass violence.

That was Manson's idea, a race war.

yes, that was NPR's interpretation of it, because it is in their interest to label it white supremacy, label it a race war and call it a hate group. :laughing: That is the narrative they are pushing. That is the point of the thread, to capture that narrative, because it is far from reality.

contrast that with every single arrest made being against somebody who claims boogaloo, but absolutely was acting in support of, in concert to, the BLM movement in the purely anti-government message. :laughing: well, except for that one kid a while back who tried to make his rural marital spat about a magazine confiscation

the point is: Do not buy the lie. A race war was mansons idea, he was more than happy to attempt to incriminate black people. the NPR narrative fits that theme very intentionally. it is not reality.
 
I think the biggest problem with this thread is that everyone is trying to put all these different anarchist crazies into a single group. There are antifa people running around, people who get wood thinking about civil war, criminal minded people who don't need a reason, just a mob to join, white surprenisists, way out there fringe libertarians who hate everything government, impressionable kids who go to the wrong websites, and probably some agent provocateurs and foreign power people in there as well trying to influence things. The only common thread they have is they're looking for an opportunity to cause chaos.

its not this thread that is the problem. the problem is the media labeling everyone into something they dont like. so they can spin it. a guy fires on a federal building in alleged support of george floyd. Damn the facts, man! Call the guy a white supremacist and then the media can get back to feeling extremely self-righteous, and condescending to everyone who is not in the elite liberal ruling class.

They have literally kept the "hate groups" alive in their narrative by trying to scare viewers into thinking its some massive uprising coming from the "right" and the "KKK". To listen to the media, you would be led to believe that the KKK is active constantly, marching through major cities, terrorizing everyone and LE is turning a blind eye like its 1920 instead of 2020.

Its the same thing with the proud boy stuff and the Big igloo groups. The media has to overexaggerate the threat, make it existential and scare the shit out of everyone. Thats how they control people. Thats how they control the masses.
 
its not this thread that is the problem. the problem is the media labeling everyone into something they dont like. so they can spin it. a guy fires on a federal building in alleged support of george floyd. Damn the facts, man! Call the guy a white supremacist and then the media can get back to feeling extremely self-righteous, and condescending to everyone who is not in the elite liberal ruling class.

They have literally kept the "hate groups" alive in their narrative by trying to scare viewers into thinking its some massive uprising coming from the "right" and the "KKK". To listen to the media, you would be led to believe that the KKK is active constantly, marching through major cities, terrorizing everyone and LE is turning a blind eye like its 1920 instead of 2020.

Its the same thing with the proud boy stuff and the Big igloo groups. The media has to overexaggerate the threat, make it existential and scare the shit out of everyone. Thats how they control people. Thats how they control the masses.

True, if you were independently to read some of the MSM, you would think the riots over the summer were the KKK in the cities killing the brothers. Somehow the media is so backwards that black and white are now reversed.
 
True, if you were independently to read some of the MSM, you would think the riots over the summer were the KKK in the cities killing the brothers. Somehow the media is so backwards that black and white are now reversed.

it was the brothers killing the kkk?
 
This line in the post of yours that I quoted is VERY much like Charles Manson.

But recently, an informal network of white supremacists and other hate groups have adopted the word "boogaloo" to signify an impending race war or some other form of mass violence.

That was Manson's idea, a race war.


Proof that white supremists have adopted boogaloo :confused:


Otherwise it sounds like more liberal bullshit. Boogaloo was some anti gov libertarian comedy, nothing more.
 
Proof that white supremists have adopted boogaloo :confused:


Otherwise it sounds like more liberal bullshit. Boogaloo was some anti gov libertarian comedy, nothing more.

that's what NPR was trying to show, of course they don't have any evidence, but by publishing the unfounded article, they are establishing the evidence. i.e. in a year from now, people can point to NPR and say "see, they were reporting on it a year ago!"

Are there likely white supremacists who have used the word or shared a boogaloo meme? yes, sharing or "liking" a meme on social media is enough to establish an official, if only in the media and for the purpose of establishing intent, link between a person and "a thing" (unless you are antifa)
 
https://www.thedailybeast.com/booga...nd-random-civilians-revealed-by-leaked-chats/

daily beast, doing their part

The apocalypse wasn’t happening fast enough.

“Nov 2nd Boogaloo start date,” one person posted in a private chat group in October 2019. “Bring your kit and weapons to your hotel room just in case.”

Nov. 2 came and went without incident.

“The Virginia luau kicks off in one month so start training as you fight,” a second person—a then-school security guard—posted a month ahead of a January 2020 pro-gun protest.

“Nobody booged today and I am disappointed,” another posted when that event, too, concluded non-violently.

By March 2020, desperation was setting in. “I hate to say this but is there a way to ‘make’ this happen or should we let it naturally?” one person wrote.

For more than a year, members of the so-called “Boogaloo” movement planned for insurrectionary violence in a private group chat. Those hundreds of thousands of messages, released Thursday by the nonprofit media collective Unicorn Riot, reveal the makings of the Boogaloo scene, a loose far-right and libertarian coalition united around a fixation on fighting—and in some cases, inciting—a second civil war called the “Boogaloo.”


Since the movement’s formation, at least two dozen Boogaloo-associated men have been arrested for alleged plots ranging from murders of law enforcement to attempted kidnappings of elected officials.

Although the movement has outwardly painted itself as acting defensively against gun laws, the leaked chats show members actively encouraging brutalviolence, including that which would target civilians, particularly on the left. And despite the movement’s stated hatred for federal agents and law enforcement, many members boasted of a cozy relationship with power, including one man who claimed to be an Army soldier working special operations with Mexican federales, and the school security guard in Long Island, who said he was angling for a cop career after interning with a local sheriff.

Perhaps most glaring: an avalanche of straight-up racist bile that places the budding movement more firmly on the far right.


The security guard, Christopher Dark, a 24-year-old Long Island resident, was one of the most prolific posters on Patriot Wave, a Boogaloo group that set up a private chat room on the messaging platform Discord in March 2019. When members of Patriot Wave made one of the Booagloo movement’s earliest public appearances at a Jan. 20 pro-gun rally in Richmond, Virginia, Dark was one of the lead organizers, helping members coordinate their outfits and weaponry.

Although most of the thousands of non-Boogaloo protesters at that rally were there to protest new gun laws, the Boogaloo crowd had a secondary motive. The “Boogaloo” (sometimes the “big igloo” or the “big luau”) refers to a period of chaotic violence, during which members of the movement plan to take up arms and shoot their way to the top of a new social order.

In the days before thatrally, Boogaloo-ers in the Patriot Wave chat were salivating over the potential for the protest to turn violent, making their civil war dreams a reality.

In a statement, a Discord spokesperson told The Daily Beast, “This server, and its users, were proactively banned from Discord in early July. We have a zero-tolerance approach to hate and threats of violence on our service and take immediate action when we become aware of it, including banning users, shutting down servers, and when appropriate reporting to the proper authorities.”


One man, who claimed to be from North Carolina, talked of potentially setting police vehicles on fire, disabling generators, and assembling a “standing army” to outnumber and encircle police at the event.

Dark, who posted under the username “thedarkness05,” gave more specifics. “Someone needs to brew up a batch of great uncle molotovs famous flamin cocktails so we can crack a cold one with the boys in blue,” he wrote. The North Carolina man responded with a recipe for a homemade explosive.

Talk of violence against law enforcement is a running theme in Boogaloo circles, sometimes even leading participants to join recent protests against police brutality. But offline, many members of the movement have personal ties to police. Dark, for instance, said he was an armed school security guard who had also completed an internship with the Suffolk County, New York Sheriff’s Office, and applied for a job with them, as well as to be a Border Patrol agent.

“Im gonna let you in on a not-so-secret secret,” Dark wrote in the group chat in January, just days before he talked about throwing molotov cocktails at cops. “Ya boi here is trying to get into a local LEO position, and at one time had an academy date to be a CBP [Customs and Border Protection] fed.”

In a conversation with The Daily Beast, Dark initially denied being behind the Patriot Wave posts, but backtracked when pointed to a picture he had shared in the group chat, of him and his Suffolk County Sheriff’s Office internship class all holding certificates with their first and last names. The Sheriff’s Office confirmed that he participated in their internship program in 2018, and that he submitted a job application, but said he was rejected for a job.

Dark told The Daily Beast that at the time of the posts (and his then-pending Sheriff’s Office application), he was still thinking of himself as a potential good cop, distinct from those he discussed targeting with molotovs. Dark has not been charged with any crimes in connection with his Boogaloo activity.

“I was still looking at it as an aspect of this department that I’m joining,” Dark said in a phone call. “I’m fixing to be on the better side of things. Sheriff's offices are more constitutional. If I’m there doing things I can at least do the most I can to make my interactions fair and constitutional and not violate anybody’s rights and still do the job and protect people.”

(He told The Daily Beast he stopped working as a school security guard several months ago, and claimed he had pulled his Sheriff’s Office application afterthe outbreak of racial justice protests earlier this year, out of opposition to police. The security firm that employed him as a school guard confirmed that he no longer works there.)

Dark was not the only group member mulling a career in law enforcement. And despite his stated preference for fairness, both he and other would-be law enforcement officers in the chat group voiced views that could violate police codes of conduct—not to mention rattle Americans at a time of reckoning with right-wing vigilantism, including among active law-enforcement.

“i may get some flak for this, but im gonna re aplly [re-apply] for the local sherrifs opffice [sic] again,” one member, who claimed to be from New Mexico, wrote in August 2019. (Elsewhere in the chat, he shared a “show your pride” meme depicting a man flying a Nazi flag, and an alt-right meme accusing Black people of theft.)

Other members of the chat offered suggestions to the would-be cop: “Just don’t go around confiscating guns when the boogaloo happens,” one suggested.

Another: “Shoot black people.”

Although Dark acknowledged in the chat that he’d applied for a CBP gig, federal agents from “alphabet” agencies also serve as villains in Boogaloo circles. Another user, moments after denying that he was “a fed,” acknowledged that “I technically am contracted by the alphabet bois but I’m not one.” He added that a non-disclosure agreement prevented him from saying more, but that “I make sure shit that goes boom doesn’t get on planes.” (A CBP spokesperson said the agency had no information about any application submitted by Dark.)

Some members indicated that their participation in the violent movement could lose them their jobs in the law enforcement, military, or intelligence sector.

“this channel is what’s gonna get my security clearance removed,” one user posted in July 2019.

A staggering number of users claimed, with varying credibility, to be current or former military, consistent with a trend of veterans and active-duty troops participating in the Boogaloo movement. Multiple men arrested in Boogaloo plots, including a trio who allegedly planned to set off explosives at a Black Lives Matter rally in Nevada this year, had military backgrounds. Steven Carrillo, a Boogaloo adherent accused of murdering a federal law enforcement officer and a police officer in May and June, is an Air Force staff sergeant.



At least one prolific participant in the leaked chats claimed to be an active-duty staff sergeant in the Army. The man, who invoked anti-Semitic and anti-Black slurs, said he worked in a task force overseen by the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC). Once again, despite the Boogaloo movement’s professed distaste for federal agents, the soldier claimed to work with them: in this case stating that his task force worked with Mexican federales in anti-cartel measures. The man called those Mexican colleagues “honest to god war criminals.”

He claimed he’d seen one pistol-whip a child, and that due to “very loose ROE [rules of engagement] … our LT could basically tell us to kill someone and we’d be ok to do it but we all held back. They’d accuse random people of being cartel members with like zero proof and then go kill or detain and rob them.”

A defense official cast serious doubt on the man’s claims of working in Mexico, telling The Daily Beast that U.S. Special Operations Forces “have not and are not conducting drug raids in Mexico with Mexican military units and police.”

Unlike many in the chat, the alleged staff sergeant said his military experiences taught him that “a boog in the US is a very undesirable outcome,” that would lead to senseless violence.

Likewise, Dark, though he appeared to speak highly of the coming Boogaloo, told The Daily Beast it would be an upsetting event, one he hoped could be avoided.

“Unfortunately I do,” the former school security guard said when asked whether he expected children would be hurt in the Boogaloo. “But like any kind of civil war, any kind of point of change, people are going to get hurt.”

Others were more eager. In message after message, group members shared ingredients for explosives and encouraged the destruction of critical infrastructure, like power stations. (In fact, one trio of Boogaloo believers, who are not known to have participated in the chat, are charged for allegedly discussing violent plots including an attack on a power station this year.) Several recommended a notorious neo-Nazi terror manual, while one recommended a manifesto by the white supremacist group Patriot Front.

One member caught a reprimand for asking whether he could target “liberal civvies [civilians].” Others responded that civilians should be off-limits, but then encouraged “target[ing] politicians, CEOs,” as well as government workers as low-level as postmen. Elsewhere in the chat, memes about murdering liberals and the media were received more warmly.
“Like legit just wanna sit on my roof and shoot at people,” one person who claimed to be an Army veteran posted.

Although the chat group had rules—“14. No terroristic or seditious activities will be tolerated. 15. The N word is not allowed”—even the moderators who posted those rules sometimes broke them. The moderator who posted the rule against terroristic activities repeatedly posted ingredients for serious explosives, as well as a meme advocating attacks on power stations.

That moderator also shared image galleries of Nazi propaganda and memes explicitly calling for “eco-fascism” and “defeating Jews.” His Nazi affinity was apparently known throughout the chat. Dark shared a cartoon of a Adolf Hitler saving a man from suicide (by a gun with a Star of David on it) and tagged the moderator. “Figured you’d enjoy this,” he wrote. (Asked about the meme, Dark told The Daily Beast that he came across it “in my travels” and shared it for the moderator who was “on the more fascist side of things.”)

Racist and anti-Semitic remarks were fairly common motifs throughout the chat. Dark, who is white, complained of other races “play[ing] the victim,” and stated that it was “not our fault we are better at being humans” and leading military conquest. One person suggested that “self-hating Whites” should get a “bullet to the back of the head.”

Dark participated in that conversation without condemning the calls for violence, posting a picture from inside a school building he was apparently guarding at the time. He also told The Daily Beast he empathized with some of the “pain” experienced by Black communities targeted by police, and by extension, agreed with some anti-racist protest actions.

Despite posting for months in anticipation of violent scenarios, many Patriot Wave members appeared worried about the optics of starting the second civil war themselves.

“If we attack cops or military it would turn the people against us. We need to ‘defend’ ourselves,” one posted in March, after multiple events hyped as possible Boogaloo-starters failed to materialize.
201029-weill-boogaloo-embed1_vmiasx
Christopher Dark at a foundational Boogaloo event in January: a pro-gun rally in Virginia
Facebook


Until this week, Dark ran a Boogaloo page on Facebook. Facebook removed the page during the reporting of this story, stating that it violated the site’s ban on Boogaloo content. Though Dark said he’s seen the movement lose some momentum due to Facebook bans and the rise of other protest movements, his page promoted the movement’s gameified violence, sometimes literally suggesting meme-y “side quests” like freeing the Unabomber, disabling the national power grid, and turning “urbanites” into “fertilizer” (ie. explosive material).

When pressed, Dark said the posts were jokes.

“Some of the side quest stuff, nobody expects people to go out there and do that,” like loading a dildo fist in a gun and shooting federal agents with it, he said. “That’s just a hilarious misnomer or something.”

But some Boogaloo adherents are accused of acting on more lethal threats. Carrillo, the Air Force staff sergeant accused of murdering two law enforcement officers, allegedly referenced memes while being pursued by police, writing “boog” and other movement slogans in blood on the hood of a car.

“That’s their own personal choice,” Dark said of adherents accused of enacting real-world violence. “I don’t have any personal interactions with that gentleman [Carrillo]. I’m not sure if he was a fan of the page or any of the pages I’m involved with.”

Carrillo likely “felt like this was his way of rectifying some of the wrongs in the world,” Dark said. “And a bunch of people did get hurt.”
 
"Kelly Weill is a reporter for The Daily Beast."



I think ol Kelly believes she understands what the boog is, but I dont think ol Kelly has a real grasp of the idea.

Whole thing reads like propaganda. Maybe it is. Maybe Kelly isnt even a real person. Hmmmmmm.....
 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nichol...s-for-attacks-on-us-soldiers/?sh=7cccb584af6a

Two ‘Boogaloo Bois’ Indicted In Plot To Supply Weapons To Terrorists For Attacks On U.S. Soldiers



Two members of the far-right, anti-government Boogaloo Bois movement have been indicted after authorities discovered an alleged plot for the two to provide weapons to Hamas for the purpose of attacking U.S. and Israeli soldiers in the Middle East in hopes of using violence to cause a new American civil war.

....
According to prosecutors, the two met with an FBI informant, who they believed to be a senior member of Hamas, and arranged to have five “untraceable” firearms sent overseas for $1,800 for the purpose of attacking American and Israeli soldiers.

...

Both also expressed the desire to target politicians and members of the media, destroy government monuments and raid the headquarters of a white supremacist organization in North Carolina, according to prosecutors.


:lmao:

what's that quote? if the FBI would leave the KKK, it would cease to exist? :laughing:
 
On July 30, SOLOMON and TEETER delivered to the individual they believed to be a senior member of Hamas five suppressors and expressed their desire to manufacture additional suppressors and fully-automatic weapons for Hamas. SOLOMON and TEETER later negotiated with the individual a price of $1,800 for five additional suppressors. SOLOMON and TEETER also delivered to the individual a “drop in auto sear” (“DIAS”), a part designed and intended for use in converting a weapon to shoot automatically. SOLOMON and TEETER believed the suppressors and the DIAS would be used by Hamas overseas to attack Israeli and U.S soldiers. Under federal law, suppressors must be registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. On August 29, 2020. SOLOLMON and TEETER knowingly possessed a device which converts a semi-automatic rifle into an illegal machine gun.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/...is-conspiracy-material-support-hamas-firearms

:laughing:

yup, sold suppressors WHICH ARE FIREARMS....i'm curious to see how THIS holds up in court with the NFA :lmao:
 
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Proof that white supremists have adopted boogaloo :confused:


Otherwise it sounds like more liberal bullshit. Boogaloo was some anti gov libertarian comedy, nothing more.
The Boogaloo has always been a joke:

So big government brown shirt coming to take my Liberties, do you wanna dance, government boy????? Do ya????? We’ll do the Boogaloo!
 
also of note, these latest to be arrested admitted their intent to assault a "white supremacist's" building/home/whatever. which also makes the "they's nazi's!" argument just a bit weaker, again. (every time)
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/d...-officials/ar-BB1eY81q?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

DHS weighing huge changes to fight domestic violent extremism, say officials

Ken Dilanian and Julia Ainsley 44 mins ago



WASHINGTON — The Department of Homeland Security, created after the 9/11 attacks to protect the country from international terrorism, is moving toward a sweeping set of policy changes aimed at detecting and stopping what intelligence officials say is now a top threat to the homeland: domestic violent extremism. Two senior Biden administration officials told NBC News that DHS, whose intelligence division did not publish a warning of potential violence before the Jan. 6 Capitol riots, is seeking to improve its ability to collect and analyze data about domestic terrorism — including the sorts of public social media posts that threatened a potential attack on the Capitol, but were not deemed "actionable" by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies.
DHS is planning to expand its relationships with companies that scour public data for intelligence, one of the senior officials said, and also to better harness the vast trove of data it already collects on Americans, including travel and commercial data through Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Coast Guard, the Secret Service and other DHS components.



The department is also contemplating changes to its terrorist watch listing process "to see if there are ways we can leverage it to take into account international and domestic travel of known violent extremists," the senior official said.

"The idea is to identify people who may through their social media behavior may be prone to influence by toxic messaging spread by foreign governments, terrorists and domestic extremists," the official added. "We want to Identify the narratives that are emerging, assess which narratives are likely to incite violence, figure out what targets are likely, and then take steps to mitigate the risk. We're going to do this in a very careful way that is mindful of privacy and civil liberties, because it's focusing on narratives, not people."
While law enforcement officials may legally examine public social media posts, any effort to do so using sophisticated computer analytical tools is likely to spark concerns among civil liberties activists. And while Americans have long been among those on the government's various watch lists, a move to restrict the travel of those deemed domestic violent extremists — without charging them with crimes — is also likely to be controversial.








"The story of DHS really is one of overreaching," said Rachel Levinson-Waldman, a fellow at the Brennan Center who co-authored a 2019 report about how DHS uses social media in immigration enforcement. "And given the urgency of the moment, these periods don't necessarily lend themselves to really being careful and judicious about how information is collected and kept."
DHS officials say they plan to address those concerns as best they can — by involving agency lawyers and the DHS privacy and civil liberties office at every step of the process.
"We have to be incredibly careful," the second senior official said, noting that the department is halfway through a 60-day examination of domestic violent extremism ordered by Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. "We're looking at what can we do versus what can't we do. If we're not doing something, is it because we don't have authorities, versus we can't because it would violate civil rights and civil liberties?"
"It is premature to say how things will change, but it is not premature to say it will change."





DHS and its component agencies have long mined public social media for intelligence, and the department drew criticism in July after it emerged that officials published intelligence reports about tweets and reporting by American journalists who published leaked documents related to violent protests in Portland.
Then-Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf shut down the collection program and curbed other efforts to examine public social media, according to one of the senior officials and one other person familiar with the matter.
"It had this chilling effect, as it always does, and there was kind of a pulling back on open sourced intel review," said Elizabeth Neumann, who served under Wolf and other DHS secretaries in the Trump administration.
The 2019 Brennan Center report examined how ICE, CBP, the Transportation Security Administration and other components monitor social media. The report, written by civil liberties activists, concluded that "wholesale monitoring of social media creates serious risks to privacy and free speech. Moreover, despite the rush to implement these programs, there is scant evidence that they actually meet the goals for which they are deployed."



Prosecutors: Members of extremist groups coordinated before Capitol riot




The report did not cover DHS's National Operations Center, which monitors certain public social media "to provide situational awareness and establish a common operating picture for the Federal Government, and for those state, local, and tribal governments."
The report noted that DHS has contracts with data firms, including Palantir, Babel Street, Pen-Link and Giant Oak, to help investigators make connections and find people.
ICE uses Giant Oak to "continuously monitor, aggregate, and analyze social media data" to help prioritize leads in the hunt for immigrants who oversee their visas, the report said.
Christopher Wall, a "solutions architect" at Giant Oak, told NBC News the technology used by his and other private firms can help the government hunt for domestic terrorism threats on social media.
"We screen and vet large amounts of data to find information of interest" using so-called machine learning techniques that train computers about what to look for, he said, noting that "Machine learning will improve your efficiency but you still have to have a human analyst" looking at the data.




"Rather than dedicating your resources to being intrusive, why not dedicate them to finding the people who are actually posing a risk?" he added.
He acknowledged that "there's a lot of hesitation about what this technology can do," and "a lot of fear of overstepping," but he noted that tech companies already collect, buy and sell large amounts of data on private individuals.
"People worry about big brother, but we already exist in that world," he said.
Neumann, the former senior DHS official, said that while the government has the legal right to monitor public social media, she observed a hesitancy on the issue.
"There was a backsliding away from information sharing between DHS and FBI," she said. "Almost like this lack of memory of all the changes post 9/11. I can't tell you when or why. But it's a cultural shift back to what they consider to be legally safer."
Paul Rosenzweig, who served as DHS deputy assistant secretary for policy in the George W. Bush administration, noted that in the fight against international terrorism, the intelligence community has long targeted money, travel and communications. Doing that in the domestic context poses thorny constitutional issues, he said.
He added that the Trump presidency shattered his confidence that the government can be trusted with intrusive surveillance authorities.
"I used to be much more sanguine about the bona fides of the executive branch, thinking that judicial and legislative oversight would constrain bad actors," he said. "The last four years have really eroded my confidence."




What's driving the changes at DHS is a widespread recognition, the officials said, that the federal government either didn't see or didn't act on widespread indications on social media that extremists were planning violence in Washington, D.C. on Jan. 6. The failure left the Capitol unprepared for an onslaught of Trump supporters, led by far-right militia members, who stormed the building in an effort to stop Congress from certifying the presidential election.
NBC News has reported that the FBI, which said it saw no actionable intelligence of potential violence at the Capitol, has been reluctant to use the full scope of its authorities in analyzing social media.
Social media monitoring is not only useful to stop organized political violence or domestic terrorism, the senior administration official said. Very often, mass shooters such as the suspects in the recent violence in Colorado and Georgia leave a trail of social media posts that paint a picture of an increasingly disturbed mind. Just as often, those posts are not seen by law enforcement until after the violence.
"People are dying," the official said. "We've had two targeted attacks in eight days — we have to do more. Yes, we need to make sure that anything we do is legal, ethical and constitutional. But we can't just sit here and say, 'Oh this is difficult, this is hard, we can't do it. We have to act.'"
 
So someone is going to violate everyone's rights? Or what?
 
So someone is going to violate everyone's rights? Or what?

Don't you mean "again"? :laughing:

I figured that is the FBIs job to profile for extremism and potential Terrorist activism. BUT the big issue is what is defined as "extremism" or who is a terrorist. I don't like where that needle is pointing right now.
 
So someone is going to violate everyone's rights? Or what?

looks like the patriot act is going to get ramped up.

20 years ago "we promise it won't be used against citizens"

today "we are exploring ways to expand our powers against citizens"
 
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