Big Sandy YJ

[battlebuddy618]

Hey guys. Bought this YJ over the summer from a dude in Atlanta. It's an 88 (I think). Has a 5.3, 4l60, np241 for drivetrain. Axles are a hp 44 front and 60 rear. Lockers front and rear with rcv fronts and 35 spline Yukons in rear. It wheels good but the XJ springs in the rear with a antiwrap are not for me. Ride is rough and suspension is essentially locked out.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Not sure if I have YJ fronts or waggy front springs on here. They are aftermarket springs but who knows. Ordered some new front waggy springs from general spring to put up there. Got a drag link rubbing the frame and hoping to lower the front and inch or 2 so I got some rework to do up front

Once that is complete I've got a ruffstuff 4 link kit for the rear to install.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Yj springs are centered pin, waggys are ~3"? Offset iirc.

Post a Pic of the wrap bar. Maybe it doesn't have a shackle or slip to alow the rear axle to move?

 

[Mike Honcho]

Looks good. Dig the color. If I ever got real jeep it would be a YJ 😎

 

[battlebuddy618]

Got my front to full bump. First the hydro assist ram hit the crank pulley. Then my driver's side exhaust hit the front drive shaft. After removal of those 2 things I got it up where it needed to be. My front driver's shock tower was leaned out 5 degrees further than the passenger side so I reworked that.

Got a HF plasma and it seems to work great. Might regret buying it later but so far so good.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Dug out the OG KOH videos and a DVD player to watch the next few days in the garage. Found myself in the 2010 vid. Got to take pics for pirate that year. My brother, myself, and a buddy covered the xrra east events and the finals for pirate in 2009 and got to go to KOH the next year. Good times for sure.

Went back to KOH a few years later and we ran the LCQ. It didn't go very good but we had a great time. Hope to get back someday and see the monster that KOH has become.

 

[fl0w3n]

Report back on the HF after some real use, interested to hear the review

Just curious what your reasons for linking the rear first over the front are?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You should set up some bump stops right about when the leafs are flat. Regularly going negative will speen up wear and can cause them to sag.

Have you tried pulling the wrap bar yet? Those rear leafs don't look like they're too stiff in the pics. At least not as bad as youre describing.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Report back on the HF after some real use, interested to hear the review

Just curious what your reasons for linking the rear first over the front are?

Hey man. Good question.

The front was done ok with a shackle reversal and the old waggy 2" lift springs. I'm fixing a few things that weren't correct on the front but it was close to good as it was.

The rear on this jeep was not designed correctly and didn't work. I'm linking the rear because it rides awful due to suspension bind. The guy I bought the jeep from sold it to get another jeep with links front and rear. Said he couldn't keep up with his buddies on the trail. I can see why. The rear suspension was in such a bind that it barely worked at all. You could see the clean portion of the shock shafts and tell that the rear hardly had any travel at all. The antiwrap bar would let the axle articulate if one tire was up in the fenders and the other was dropped out. However, when you were cruising on a trail and both side of the rear suspension needed to compress at the same time it couldn't due to binding.

I know there are die hard anti wrap bar guys out there that will say theirs works great. This one did not.

 

[battlebuddy618]

You should set up some bump stops right about when the leafs are flat. Regularly going negative will speen up wear and can cause them to sag.

Have you tried pulling the wrap bar yet? Those rear leafs don't look like they're too stiff in the pics. At least not as bad as youre describing.

Leafs are sort of tough to mock up compared to coilovers and links. My guess is the main leaf will be closer to flat when the entire pack is together and the shackle will just swing further back. At least I hope so. I started to put a 2nd leaf back in the pack for mock up due to this mainspring bending all wonky like. Was concerned that with 2 leafs I'd have too much spring rate and couldn't get to full bump without lifting the jeep off of the jack stands. We'll see. May have to lower the bump stops if the spring truly is inverted when fully compressed.

Pulled the anti wrap bar. Jeep sat probably 1" lower in the rear without it. The stock replacement XJ springs were flat to slightly inverted. The XJ springs are very soft. too soft really. The suspension being so stiff in the rear was due to the anti wrap bar binding the suspension up.

XJ leaf springs are in the dumpster and the anti warp bar is laying right next to the last one I removed in the metal scrap pile.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Finished moving my hydro assist ram and cleaning up front suspension issues. Started pulling the rear apart yesterday.


HF plasma did great cutting off the old brackets. Still lots of grinding to do.


Had to smooth out the bottom of the dana 60 while i was at it. Not interested in installing a shave kit but wanted to knock square edges off at least.


Going to buy more flapper discs and will keep on chopping and grinding for a while!

 

[fl0w3n]

Hey man. Good question.

The front was done ok with a shackle reversal and the old waggy 2" lift springs. I'm fixing a few things that weren't correct on the front but it was close to good as it was.

The rear on this jeep was not designed correctly and didn't work. I'm linking the rear because it rides awful due to suspension bind. The guy I bought the jeep from sold it to get another jeep with links front and rear. Said he couldn't keep up with his buddies on the trail. I can see why. The rear suspension was in such a bind that it barely worked at all. You could see the clean portion of the shock shafts and tell that the rear hardly had any travel at all. The antiwrap bar would let the axle articulate if one tire was up in the fenders and the other was dropped out. However, when you were cruising on a trail and both side of the rear suspension needed to compress at the same time it couldn't due to binding.

I know there are die hard anti wrap bar guys out there that will say theirs works great. This one did not.

Makes sense. Do you plan to link the front eventually as well?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Leafs are sort of tough to mock up compared to coilovers and links. My guess is the main leaf will be closer to flat when the entire pack is together and the shackle will just swing further back. At least I hope so. I started to put a 2nd leaf back in the pack for mock up due to this mainspring bending all wonky like. Was concerned that with 2 leafs I'd have too much spring rate and couldn't get to full bump without lifting the jeep off of the jack stands. We'll see. May have to lower the bump stops if the spring truly is inverted when fully compressed.

Pulled the anti wrap bar. Jeep sat probably 1" lower in the rear without it. The stock replacement XJ springs were flat to slightly inverted. The XJ springs are very soft. too soft really. The suspension being so stiff in the rear was due to the anti wrap bar binding the suspension up.

XJ leaf springs are in the dumpster and the anti warp bar is laying right next to the last one I removed in the metal scrap pile.

I had better luck using 2 leafs vs 1 for mock up as well.

If the wrap bar effects ride hieght, it's obviously binding. It should have a shackle on the frame side, or a slip and twist joint near the top.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Makes sense. Do you plan to link the front eventually as well?

It's hard to know when to quit. If I keep trashing front springs or keep blowing up the hp 44 front then maybe. I'd probably put a jk ring and pinion in the housing and replace quite a few sets of springs before that tho.

 

[battlebuddy618]

I had better luck using 2 leafs vs 1 for mock up as well.

If the wrap bar effects ride hieght, it's obviously binding. It should have a shackle on the frame side, or a slip and twist joint near the top.

It had the shackle and a massive cartridge joint of some flavor on the anti wrap bar. TMR maybe? I think the separation at the axle was maybe too great and caused the antiwrap to try to move in a different arch than the springs wanted to move. The shackle was welded onto the t case skid and the shackle and bar were above the mount if that makes sense. Who knows. It's gone now.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Cleaned up the axle. Enough grinding for today but lots more to do on the rear frame.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The axle separation doesn't matter at all, the idea is to have it be solid to the axle.

The shackle let's the wrap bar move front to back with the axle, but not rotate. If the shackle was actually welded to a crossmember with no pivot point, that would explain the binding.

 

[JohnnyJ]

A few friends did leaf front and 4-link rear back in the day. It was a good budget solution and worked well. All 3 rigs that were done that way were stable, but flexed well. It allowed them to stretch the rear out a bit, and get rid of annoying axle wrap and blowing up driveshafts.

Looks good.

 

[battlebuddy618]

The axle separation doesn't matter at all, the idea is to have it be solid to the axle.

The shackle let's the wrap bar move front to back with the axle, but not rotate. If the shackle was actually welded to a crossmember with no pivot point, that would explain the binding.

The axle separation doesn't matter at all, the idea is to have it be solid to the axle.

The shackle let's the wrap bar move front to back with the axle, but not rotate. If the shackle was actually welded to a crossmember with no pivot point, that would explain the binding.

Pics from before I cut it off are below. Again, it is cut off now because it didn't work.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Your pics aren't working. You can upload them directly here pretty easy.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Got all my frame brackets removed from the rear frame this weekend. Started planning for the rear 4 link. First issue I had was up travel. I had wanted to run 1.25" heims for uppers but there's no way that will work if I want any up travel. Ordered smaller joints for the uppers and the associated tubing and inserts. I also chopped an inch out of the ruffstuff truss to get it lower.

HF 45 amp plasma cuts 3/8" pretty well. Cutting this truss down was the first time I've used it on anything that thick so far.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Got my truss welded up after work. Welds came out nice. Had one 3" spot with porosity but I removed it with a die grinder and rewelded.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Been a while now but Jeep is back together. Used a Barnes 4x4 skid plate to mount my trans and T case (4l60 & np241)

Added a rear piece to the barnes skid to accommodate the NP241. Added a tube frame on the other side to support this

Rear 4 link coming together. Used radflow 12" coilovers from Wide Open Design. Went with wilwood calipers due to limited clearance with the shock bolts and the GM calipers everyone typically uses.

Here's the jeep completed for this round. Drives and wheels well. Could sit lower.

Picked up a new M8000 with the newer style contactor style control box for 500 bucks. Swapped out the china winch that was on the jeep when I got it for this. Will swap to rope at some point but it's fine for now.

 

[simmons3067]

I have been collecting parts for my YJ build that will be very similar to yours. Your Jeep looks great. Keep the thread going I need motivation.

 

[battlebuddy618]

Thanks!

 

[simmons3067]

What axle gears are you running? Does the gearing work well with the 4l60 and 241? I plan on a th400 and 241 but everything I have / wheel is low geared. I am nervous it won’t be low enough.

 

[battlebuddy618]

What axle gears are you running? Does the gearing work well with the 4l60 and 241? I plan on a th400 and 241 but everything I have / wheel is low geared. I am nervous it won’t be low enough.

Terrain, tire size, driving style, engine horsepower, and other things are part of this equation and should be considered. What works for me may not work for you.

5.38 axles gears are what this jeep has. The thing that helps this rig is the low 1st gear in the 4l60 trans. However I run in 2nd gear in 4 low most of the time. I'm only dropping to first for very steep or technical areas on the trail. I'm running a stock converter also but for this rig it seems perfect. Its quicker than my old buggy in 4 high. It's also lighter, and again, has the low first gear.


I had juggy / buggy with 5.3/th400/4.0 Atlas in the past. 39 krawlers. 5.38 gears Hughes full size towing converter with a slightly higher stall over stock. First gear was almost too low in that rig too really. I kept it in 2nd most of the time crawling. It was a bit slow to take off in 4 high due to the converter. The converter kept trans temps low though. A looser converter would have got that trans hotter I am sure.

Same old build buggy/juggy earlier on in its life had a 2.5/ax15/241OR rocktrac case. 40" tires 5.38 gears. Way less power and manual trans This evolution needed more gearing for sure. It was acceptable but not ideal. Ax15 manual had a pathetic first gear that was higher than most. That was a lot of the issue w that setup.

A V8 and auto trans make up for a lot in my experience.

 

[Rockwood]

Terrain, tire size, driving style, engine horsepower, and other things are part of this equation and should be considered. What works for me may not work for you.

5.38 axles gears are what this jeep has. The thing that helps this rig is the low 1st gear in the 4l60 trans. However I run in 2nd gear in 4 low most of the time. I'm only dropping to first for very steep or technical areas on the trail. I'm running a stock converter also but for this rig it seems perfect. Its quicker than my old buggy in 4 high. It's also lighter, and again, has the low first gear.


I had juggy / buggy with 5.3/th400/4.0 Atlas in the past. 39 krawlers. 5.38 gears Hughes full size towing converter with a slightly higher stall over stock. First gear was almost too low in that rig too really. I kept it in 2nd most of the time crawling. It was a bit slow to take off in 4 high due to the converter. The converter kept trans temps low though. A looser converter would have got that trans hotter I am sure.

Same old build buggy/juggy earlier on in its life had a 2.5/ax15/241OR rocktrac case. 40" tires 5.38 gears. Way less power and manual trans This evolution needed more gearing for sure. It was acceptable but not ideal. Ax15 manual had a pathetic first gear that was higher than most. That was a lot of the issue w that setup.

A V8 and auto trans make up for a lot in my experience.

Nice. I've been nervous about the stock stall converter I'm using with my swap (alllllmost there), but what you say here lines up with my reasoning on selecting it with the 4L60E

 

[Pto]

Dug out the OG KOH videos and a DVD player to watch the next few days in the garage. Found myself in the 2010 vid. Got to take pics for pirate that year. My brother, myself, and a buddy covered the xrra east events and the finals for pirate in 2009 and got to go to KOH the next year. Good times for sure.

Went back to KOH a few years later and we ran the LCQ. It didn't go very good but we had a great time. Hope to get back someday and see the monster that KOH has become.

My God is that Lippy Larry? (?? on name?)