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Poke

Poke

I’m condescending
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
763
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1,392
I’m looking for an educational history book on the Nicea Council and Constantinople meetings. I’d like to know more about how that entire thing thing went down with who picked what and how for the Bible. I’m looking for a history book, not a book or religious spin and interpretation. It’s a topic in that time period I don’t know much about.
 
Most everything you will find will have a religious perspective given the topic. The Vatican probably has some stuff in their archives about it. See if they have any of it digitized and public facing.
 
Pony_Driver said:
Most everything you will find will have a religious perspective given the topic. The Vatican probably has some stuff in their archives about it. See if they have any of it digitized and public facing.
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I would not trust the authenticity of anything approved by the Vatican. They are self serving and not history Buffs.
 
They are likely the only source for some of the information you seek. I know they filter it through their lens, but sometimes they will release the actual records and manuscripts.

Maybe Oxford or some other such old institution may have records? A lot of monks fled to Ireland when Europe got lit and took records with them. You're going to be hard pressed to find purely scholarly articles from the time period. Might want to take what you can get and glean what you can from it. Maybe continue the search until you find what you want?
 
I’m looking to be more educated on the argument of female deciples, what was removed from the stack of writings before it was dubbed the Bible, who called Mary a whore and when(before or after the Bible was finalized. Etc. all the controversial stuff
 
Pony_Driver said:
They are likely the only source for some of the information you seek. I know they filter it through their lens, but sometimes they will release the actual records and manuscripts.

Maybe Oxford or some other such old institution may have records? A lot of monks fled to Ireland when Europe got lit and took records with them. You're going to be hard pressed to find purely scholarly articles from the time period. Might want to take what you can get and glean what you can from it. Maybe continue the search until you find what you want?
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Good points. Just start reading everything I can find and see where it leads.

I’m sure they have the most in writing.
 
Have you read the Gnostic Bible?

Honestly you might have a better chance of studying the development of the church doctrine (and the offshoots) over the centuries to get a better picture of things.
 
Poke said:
I would not trust the authenticity of anything approved by the Vatican. They are self serving and not history Buffs.
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History buffs aren't self serving with their own agendas? I think most people in general fall into that category.
 
flecker said:
History buffs aren't self serving with their own agendas? I think most people in general fall into that category.
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True but most historians wouldn’t sanction torture and murder with other peoples money to defend their interests :stirthepot:
 
Tip.... go to Amazon. Find a book on the subject that will validate how you feel about the subject. Purchase that book, feel better that your feelings have been validated after reading that book.

No offense, but it sounds like you have already made up your mind about what's true and from where your going to trust information... just go to that source. Find a "history buff" that wrote a book on the subject.
 
flecker said:
Tip.... go to Amazon. Find a book on the subject that will validate how you feel about the subject. Purchase that book, feel better that your feelings have been validated after reading that book.

No offense, but it sounds like you have already made up your mind about what's true and from where your going to trust information... just go to that source. Find a "history buff" that wrote a book on the subject.
Click to expand...

I think he just wants the truth. The truth would not be found with the people who have the agenda in the first place, ie: the vatican. It's a well known fact that the bible has had many editors and translators over the years and it is also well known that the vatican has an interest in preserving the decisions that the romans made to shape what is known as christianity today. Just look at how bad they freaked out when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found for proof of that.
 
flecker said:
Tip.... go to Amazon. Find a book on the subject that will validate how you feel about the subject. Purchase that book, feel better that your feelings have been validated after reading that book.

No offense, but it sounds like you have already made up your mind about what's true and from where your going to trust information... just go to that source. Find a "history buff" that wrote a book on the subject.
Click to expand...

This
 
Elwenil said:
I think he just wants the truth. The truth would not be found with the people who have the agenda in the first place, ie: the vatican. It's a well known fact that the bible has had many editors and translators over the years and it is also well known that the vatican has an interest in preserving the decisions that the romans made to shape what is known as christianity today. Just look at how bad they freaked out when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found for proof of that.
Click to expand...

You would need to read all sides, history is being rewritten every day.
 
Poke said:
I’m looking to be more educated on the argument of female deciples, what was removed from the stack of writings before it was dubbed the Bible, who called Mary a whore and when(before or after the Bible was finalized. Etc. all the controversial stuff
Click to expand...

Look into more of the dead sea scrolls. As well as maybe check out the book “Fingerprints of the Gods”

Just remember you are seeking and reading opinions and not facts.
 
Elwenil said:
I think he just wants the truth. The truth would not be found with the people who have the agenda in the first place, ie: the vatican. It's a well known fact that the bible has had many editors and translators over the years and it is also well known that the vatican has an interest in preserving the decisions that the romans made to shape what is known as christianity today. Just look at how bad they freaked out when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found for proof of that.
Click to expand...

Yup. The vatican has their interpretation and there have to be other out there. I'd suggest the OP seek out all of them, read them, then form his own conclusions.
 
Elwenil said:
I think he just wants the truth. The truth would not be found with the people who have the agenda in the first place, ie: the vatican. It's a well known fact that the bible has had many editors and translators over the years and it is also well known that the vatican has an interest in preserving the decisions that the romans made to shape what is known as christianity today. Just look at how bad they freaked out when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found for proof of that.
Click to expand...

Most people want the truth, to some degree, until it no longer coincides with their way of thinking. Then the truth must be proven to be something else...

No doubt the Church manipulates the facts in some regard to achieve their own agenda. And so does everyone else. It isn't a Church thing only, right? Find a historian that was around during that time and take his account for it, OR find a source elsewhere and see if it fits the facts.
 
flecker said:
Most people want the truth, to some degree, until it no longer coincides with their way of thinking. Then the truth must be proven to be something else...

No doubt the Church manipulates the facts in some regard to achieve their own agenda. And so does everyone else. It isn't a Church thing only, right? Find a historian that was around during that time and take his account for it, OR find a source elsewhere and see if it fits the facts.
Click to expand...

Hello pot.
 
Truly disinterested research and analysis is far less likely to be initiated, distributed, or promoted.
With no dog in that race, who would drop 1000+ hours into primary research?

For "the truth", reading conflicting accounts + critical thinking = best way to justify your bias :flipoff2: :laughing:
 
I gotta agree with flecker. Most people don't want information that doesn't correspond to their tribal identity. They want to be validated more than educated.
 
Poke said:
I’m looking to be more educated on the argument of female deciples, what was removed from the stack of writings before it was dubbed the Bible, who called Mary a whore and when(before or after the Bible was finalized. Etc. all the controversial stuff
Click to expand...

Research the Textus Receptus. This was done outside the Catholic Church for the very reasons you mistrust them as a source of record. There is a reason the Duey Rhymes (Catholic Bible) and Geneva Bibles (and later the King James version) don't line up exactly (not to mention 6 additional books in the Catholic Bible). IMO, the Geneva represents about as pure of an English translation as you can get, not being translated by "The Authority" but instead by refugees that fled to Geneva to escape the persecution of the Roman Catholic Church on one side and Queen Mary on the other side.

I found Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons to be very enlightening, however not exactly what you're looking for. As for books on the history of the Catholic church's councils and so forth, I personally would just start hitting Amazon and see what comes up. e.g.: Amazon.com : the council of nicea
 
Pony_Driver said:
Have you read the Gnostic Bible?

Honestly you might have a better chance of studying the development of the church doctrine (and the offshoots) over the centuries to get a better picture of things.
Click to expand...

this was my first thought. reading gnostic vs agnostic stuff from 100-500 AD would be a good source


edit: the internet provides this interesting link

The Books Not in the Bible: The Apocrypha and Gnostic Writings | Free Ministry Resources

there is no reason not to accept religious works in this reading, most everything worth writing down was religious or money at the time :flipoff2:
 
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I have actually spent quite a bit of time on the old biblical texts... Just my opinion, but the Authorized King James version seems to be the most accurate to the Greek/ Arabic translations. I know it doesn't have much to do with your research in to the Nicaea Council. It may help to examine that though when you ponder what was chosen vs. what was not.
 
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Tom Hanks has all the answers you seek....
 
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