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BEGINNING WELDING FOR nOOBs

Hundreds of thousands of people learned to weld with a way the fuck too dark fixed shade. You'll be fine with a HF special if that's the route you choose to go. Frankly, seeing all the shit going on around the weld is not going to be your issue when you are just laying bead after bead in a test setting. Get a nice helmet if you want but it's a nicety not a necessity.

Ignore anyone who says anything about the "puddle". It is absolute shit advice for a novice who doesn't know what they are looking for and the puddle is a lot less informative for a stick welder in the flat position where you will be starting than it is for the average monkey who's pushing a hot glue gun in the flat position.

Focus on your angles, speed and where you're putting the arc relative to the base metal and the bead of molten metal that's following you. After about 1-2lb in the flat position you will figure out what a "good" weld looks and feels like as you're laying it. By the time you know what you're looking for the puddle to be doing you won't need anyone to tell you what you're looking for.

You should err on the side of slow travel speed and a travel angle that is way the fuck closer to vertical than you think it should be. The problems that beginners tend to have is they move to fast, with too much travel angle so you will likely need to actively work to counter these. Once you're able to lay a consistant bead we'll talk about work angle.

Make sure you have some fume extraction. Even just a box fan sucking shit away will make it a million times easier to see WTF you're doing and make your helmet get dirty tons slower.
 
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arse_sidewards said:
Ignore anyone who says anything about the "puddle".
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1 sentence later:

arse_sidewards said:
Focus on your angles, speed and where you're putting the arc relative to the base metal and the bead of molten metal that's following you.
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WTF is the "bead of molten metal that's following you" ????
Oh yeahhhhh, the puddle...




arse_sidewards said:
Make sure you have some fume extraction. Even just a box fan sucking shit away will make it a million times easier to see WTF you're doing and make your helmet get dirty tons slower.
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Might be a good idea for stick, but for MG and specially TIG, that is a shit advice.
 
Bebop said:
1 sentence later:

WTF is the "bead of molten metal that's following you" ????
Oh yeahhhhh, the puddle...
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:shaking:

What's going on there won't be discernible to him. All he needs to do is see that there's something there coming after his arc. All the important shit is going on in the tiny area between the mostly solidified metal and that's not really useful to a beginner. He needs to be thinking in terms of using the arc to cleave off base metal, not in terms of the puddle.

If you can come up with a better way to tell him to travel at a reasonable speed be my guest.

Bebop said:
Might be a good idea for stick, but for MG and specially TIG, that is a shit advice.
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I thought that went without saying. :laughing:

Your hood doesn't get dirty with MIG/TIG :flipoff2:
 
arse_sidewards said:
I thought that went without saying. :laughing:
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For a beginner level advice, nothing goes without saying



Travel speed :

speed-faults-large.jpg



If you go too fast, the edges of the weld aren't consistent at all. Even if you go in a straight line, the weld look like a zig-zag.
If you go too slow, you make a giant blob of molten metal and in all likelyhood, you'll make a hole and figure that out quickly :lmao:

(I know, this is a MIG picture. Same results though).
 
Bebop said:
For a beginner level advice, nothing goes without saying
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:shaking:

He has a fucking stick welder. He doesn't need to be warned not to blow away his shielding gas. Don't you have a clipboard to be carrying around?

Bebop said:
Travel speed :

speed-faults-large.jpg



If you go too fast, the edges of the weld aren't consistent at all. Even if you go in a straight line, the weld look like a zig-zag.
If you go too slow, you make a giant blob of molten metal and in all likelyhood, you'll make a hole and figure that out quickly :lmao:

(I know, this is a MIG picture. Same results though).
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He's probably not gonna burn through his 1/4 or 3/8 L-channel with a 1/8 electrode unless he's trying to. :laughing:

The line between just right and too slow is a lot more flexible than just right and too fast IMO. Too fast and you get undercut and wind up having to do more passes where you otherwise wouldn't/shouldn't need to. Too slow and you put in too much heat and warp shit.

It's really hard to go too slow with a stick welder. You pretty much need to try. Your travel angle pretty much ensures sufficient forward progress.

The pics never do it justice but that good bead is probably like 1/8" tall and the slow one is probably close to 1/4.

Depending on what you're trying to do that "too slow" one might be just right. The whole purpose of big electrodes is to lay big welds quickly. There's nothing fundamentally wrong about laying that weld. It's just that you rarely wind up in a situation where that is the smart thing to be doing. There's pretty much no situation in which the top bead is the right answer.

At the early stages of learning consistancy matters more than accuracy. If you can lay the same bead every time and the only problem is that it's a little too fast or too slow that's easy to compensate for.
 
arse_sidewards said:
At the early stages of learning consistancy matters more than accuracy. If you can lay the same bead every time and the only problem is that it's a little too fast or too slow that's easy to compensate for.
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You obviously know more than me about stick welding. So I can't say anything about your advice.
I agree on the quote above.
 
FleshEater said:
I actually have some angle laying around.

I need a helmet. Looked a little today but want to find something I can see well in. Really worried how this will be with bad astigmatism.
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I have an astigmatism and wanted a nice lens so I bought a Lincoln hood for $100. Truthfully, the Harbor Freight helmets are just as good. I've used their $60 red helmet and I can't tell you the difference between it and my $100 lincoln, other than the outside paint job. I have worn my glasses under my hood and it seemed to help.

the "rule of thumb" I was told is your rod diameter = amperage.
3/32 rod = 90 amps
1/8 rod = 120 amps.
These will probably seem high when you start learning.
Everything I learned from stick welding made me a better MiG welder.
With 6010 I was told to say "outback steakhouse" while welding to figure out how long to stay in place. "Out Back" was the motion OUT of the puddle (in the direction you're welding) and BACK was literally going back to where you'll start the next weld. "Steakhouse" was how long you stayed in place to make that dime shape. I stayed in place just long enough to see an orange ring around the rod.

Don't be afraid to get too close to the puddle. Lots of people stay too far away trying to see the arc. You'll figure it out.

Buy a welding hat. Nothing sucks more than burning your head.
 
arse_sidewards said:
You should err on the side of slow travel speed and a travel angle that is way the fuck closer to vertical than you think it should be. The problems that beginners tend to have is they move to fast, with too much travel angle so you will likely need to actively work to counter these. Once you're able to lay a consistant bead we'll talk about work angle.

Make sure you have some fume extraction. Even just a box fan sucking shit away will make it a million times easier to see WTF you're doing and make your helmet get dirty tons slower.
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To add to the part in green,
Get comfortable.
Also, you don't need to hold the torch/electrode like it is going to fight you. I would grip the electrode so hard with my right hand thinking I had to control a wild horse or something. It won't bite you. Just relax. drop the shoulders, take a breath, relax, and remember you're going to be welding for an hour so if you're tensed up too much it won't be enjoyable.
 
Bebop said:
You obviously know more than me about stick welding. So I can't say anything about your advice.
I agree on the quote above.
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I'm sure there's variance from people to people but the above descriptions are how I learned it best and how I've had luck teaching it to others.

There's kind of a lot going on when you're stick welding so it's not really possible for a novice to manage it all right at once.

RunningProblem said:
To add to the part in green,
Get comfortable.
Also, you don't need to hold the torch/electrode like it is going to fight you. I would grip the electrode so hard with my right hand thinking I had to control a wild horse or something. It won't bite you. Just relax. drop the shoulders, take a breath, relax, and remember you're going to be welding for an hour so if you're tensed up too much it won't be enjoyable.
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Another thing I forgot, make sure that you can bring the stinger all the way up to the work without adjusting you supporting hand. I find this is best accomplished by having the supporting hand on the back of the wrist of the hand holding. You don't want your secondary hand getting in your way when you're trying to burn that last inch of electrode.
 
like any forum

some advise should be dismissed
new members, you will figure out who thinks they know, and who actually does it for a living

there are some great U tube channels specifically for the new welders actually taught be people that teach for a living :grinpimp:
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
like any forum

some advise should be dismissed
new members, you will figure out who thinks they know, and who actually does it for a living

there are some great U tube channels specifically for the new welders actually taught be people that teach for a living :grinpimp:
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i will add that everyone is different as well, what works for one person might not work that good for someone else. one of the best things you can do is to just do it, practice practice practice
 
I'll second the "practice, practice, practice" mantra. Watching youtube won't make you a better welder as much as practice will. WeldTube has some good videos showing a lot of stick welding. 6010 rod doesn't weld anything like 7018. 7018 is pretty forgiving, but it will put a LOT of heat into metal an you can warp some stuff. 6010 is a violent rod that will dig into anything you put in it's path.
 
I’m not going to bother quoting each post. Fuck telling people not to watch the puddle. That is a basic for welding. If you don’t know what you’re looking at you don’t know what’s going on. Running a stick, mig, tig weld, you can end up too fast like just dragging it along you don’t get shit done. Or too slow, and that’s more important on thinner stuff because it will burn right through. Watch the PUDDLE and you can focus on where you are going. If it looks like it’s not going smoothly or just going all over the place. I could go on and on but giving beginners BAD advice is not helping anyone.
I’m not some super teacher or anything. I don’t brag about shit, act all high and mighty hollier than thou person. I’ve just been doing this shit for more than 20 years, all process, all materials, etc. I know what I learned in school. And what I also wish people would have told me. There wasn’t 50 welding channels on YouTube or anything like that. It takes practice, fucking up, figuring out what’s going on and compensating for it. Nothing is going to go perfect everytime. Not every weld will be beautiful. I’ve had one weld go fine and the next pass is fucked up. I’ve seen beautiful welds fail or break, some ugly birdshit welds hood waaaay more than you would ever think. I realize most of the people in this post aren’t doing this for a living so everyone’s opinion will vary. Take it for what it’s worth, see what works for you and go from there.
Disagree with me, zero fucks given. I try and stay outta these threads because I could write novels.
 
Practice is everything. It's how you learn what a good weld feels and sounds like as you're doing it. That's what you're after.

As far as not watching the puddle. That's almost impossible to do. It's right there just behind the bright light.:flipoff2:

If you look at the picture that was posted of travel speeds, you can see the differences is the shape of the ripples. Too fast are pointed, too slow are almost straight and OK are a nice crescent.

You'll be able to see that bead shape just behind the arc, before the slag soliditifies. So as you're traveling you can tell if your travel speed is correct.
 
Brad said:
I’m not going to bother quoting each post. Fuck telling people not to watch the puddle. That is a basic for welding. If you don’t know what you’re looking at you don’t know what’s going on. Running a stick, mig, tig weld, you can end up too fast like just dragging it along you don’t get shit done. Or too slow, and that’s more important on thinner stuff because it will burn right through. Watch the PUDDLE and you can focus on where you are going. If it looks like it’s not going smoothly or just going all over the place. I could go on and on but giving beginners BAD advice is not helping anyone.
I’m not some super teacher or anything. I don’t brag about shit, act all high and mighty hollier than thou person. I’ve just been doing this shit for more than 20 years, all process, all materials, etc. I know what I learned in school. And what I also wish people would have told me. There wasn’t 50 welding channels on YouTube or anything like that. It takes practice, fucking up, figuring out what’s going on and compensating for it. Nothing is going to go perfect everytime. Not every weld will be beautiful. I’ve had one weld go fine and the next pass is fucked up. I’ve seen beautiful welds fail or break, some ugly birdshit welds hood waaaay more than you would ever think. I realize most of the people in this post aren’t doing this for a living so everyone’s opinion will vary. Take it for what it’s worth, see what works for you and go from there.
Disagree with me, zero fucks given. I try and stay outta these threads because I could write novels.
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welding without looking at the puddle is like learning to drive without looking at the road

people just need to be smart about what advise to take:grinpimp:
 
total newb said:
 The only way youll die is catching your frayed out pants on fire.


Buy a used 120v mig welder
Cheap auto dark helmet
Load it with flux core

Practice

Your goals will come with use .
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I just went through 2 years of this thread and the best advice was in the first reply.

I will add that a couple cheap Harbor fright grinders will help immensely. I learned stick welding pipe in a refinery and made a good living from it. Like other experienced welders mentioned, it's all about the puddle. I would never use stick again, unless the process required it. Most mig or Fluxcore I weld with a J to keep the heat in the puddle and the base metal.

Unless you're welding exotic metals, like ss or al, Fluxcore will weld anything you need up to 1/4", there is nothing over 1/4" on any vehicle. My personal welder is a 120v Lincoln Weldpak100, Fluxcore only, no gas option. It cost me $300 20 years ago, I built my avatar with it. I can carry my Lincoln into your living room, plug it into any outlet and weld your stuff. I've carried my welder up a ladder and tied it off to weld a bar joist. Nice thing about Fluxcore is you never run out of gas on a weekend project. I use the cheap harbor fright autodark helmet, never had a problem or burned my eyes with it. The cheap welders have 4 heat settings, you use the wire speed to fine tune your heat. nice thing about Fluxcore is that you can weld outside in the wind, that won't happen with mig. Fluxcore also doesn't care about clean, you can weld through rust and filth without affecting the weld.

Anyone who says the 120v welders won't work, doesn't know welding. Back to my avatar, I welded the 1/4" mustII x-member in and sectioned a 24ga trunk lid with the weldpak100. Sheet metal is a bitch with anything but tig. Most inexperienced welders, weld to hot, cuz it looks pretty. An experienced welder can weld flat and overhead without changing the settings. :stirthepot:
 
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_ogre said:
I just went through 2 years of this thread and the best advice was in the first reply.

I will add that a couple cheap Harbor fright grinders will help immensely. I learned stick welding pipe in a refinery and made a good living from it. Like other experienced welders mentioned, it's all about the puddle. I would never use stick again, unless the process required it. Most mig or Fluxcore I weld with a J to keep the heat in the puddle and the base metal.

Unless you're welding exotic metals, like ss or al, Fluxcore will weld anything you need up to 1/4", there is nothing over 1/4" on any vehicle. My personal welder is a 120v Lincoln Weldpak100, Fluxcore only, no gas option. It cost me $300 20 years ago, I built my avatar with it. I can carry my Lincoln into your living room, plug it into any outlet and weld your stuff. I've carried my welder up a ladder and tied it off to weld a bar joist. Nice thing about Fluxcore is you never run out of gas on a weekend project. I use the cheap harbor fright autodark helmet, never had a problem or burned my eyes with it. The cheap welders have 4 heat settings, you use the wire speed to fine tune your heat. nice thing about Fluxcore is that you can weld outside in the wind, that won't happen with mig. Fluxcore also doesn't care about clean, you can weld through rust and filth without affecting the weld.

Anyone who says the 120v welders won't work, doesn't know welding. Back to my avatar, I welded the 1/4" mustII x-member in and sectioned a 24ga trunk lid with the weldpak100. Sheet metal is a bitch with anything but tig. Most inexperienced welders, weld to hot, cuz it looks pretty. An experienced welder can weld flat and overhead without changing the settings. :stirthepot:
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Nobody's saying flux core won't work.

The problem is that the cheap 120v flux core welders are pretty crappy. Better than no welder but that's about it.

To get a nice 120v welder you're more than into the price range where you can get a 220v welder, so just get the 220v welder.

Your overpriced red suitcase is not a beginner machine. It's an expensive specialty tool for professionals.

As an aside, flux core is fine for SS in a lot of applications.
 
rockyota83 said:
heavy duty axle housings and heavy duty suspension parts are 3/8-1/2" thick so youre wrong about that:flipoff2: other than that i mostly agree with you

i also agree with asswideways :flipoff2:
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technically the 80s super duty rear axle was 9/16" before being pointed down to where it got thicker
then they friction welded the spindles on, amazing process once you see the weld cut up and polished
but the spring pad, shock brackets and the brake flange was immersed flux welded using 400 amp welding supply
 
my axle truss is probably the thickest thing I’ve ever welded. It’s 38 and 1/4” thick steel. I used solid core and 90/10 mix gas. I think it came out nicely and I took my time to learn to read the puddle before welding it all up.
 
Finally got a helmet. First day screwing around has net me a lot of metal puddles.

7018 that I got with the welder is hard to weld with. So is 6013. :laughing:

PS, dirty or shiny clean metal all sucked, because I suck. I’ll clean more metal off later. :flipoff2:

7E7EFEE2-7F54-4320-9FDC-CB5845EA7B0B.jpeg
 
FleshEater go slow with 7018. Wait until you see an orange puddle start to form a ring around the stick, or about the time the orange puddle becomes the size of the stick then start slowly dragging that puddle the way you want to go. If you go too slow the puddle will get bigger. If you go too fast it gets skinny. Try to keep it one size.


The BRAND of rod won’t matter right now. Buy a LOT of one brand. Maybe a 50 pound box. Practice a lot with one brand you can buy locally before trying to find cheaper ones online or somewhere.
 
I'll disagree because I can. :flipoff2:

Don't watch the puddle, at least initially. Count to a solid "one motherfucker" out loud before you start moving after the arc stabilizes. Just practice a slow and steady motion. With a proper work angle the flux of the 7018 will just about perfectly rest on the base metal and burn away at the rate required to give you a good feed speed. Once you can keep the arc lit and your movements consistent then you will have the free time to be watching the puddle and see how your feed speed and work/travel angles affect it.
 
FleshEater said:
Finally got a helmet. First day screwing around has net me a lot of metal puddles.

7018 that I got with the welder is hard to weld with. So is 6013. :laughing:

PS, dirty or shiny clean metal all sucked, because I suck. I’ll clean more metal off later. :flipoff2:

7E7EFEE2-7F54-4320-9FDC-CB5845EA7B0B.jpeg
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look up the specs for Amperage
I'm going to guess you are off, is that is 1/8 rod I see laying there you are using?
 
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