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ATF CHECKING MY 4473 AT SHOP I DEAL WITH

6gun

6gun

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2020
Member Number
1975
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64
Stopped by my local shop to ship a couple of handguns that I sold on gunbroker. While there the guy I deal with told me the ATF had called and wanted all my 4473s :eek: (probably around 25-30ish over 5 years. Got a call in to my lawyer to try and get ahead of anything or at least be ready. This PISSES me off royally! :mad3: Anyone else?
 
Are they thinking you are a dealer without license? You mention shipping a “couple”. isnt there an unwritten rule on how many can be sold each year. ,Maybe they are tracing your length of possession.
 
Hooligan said:
Are they thinking you are a dealer without license? You mention shipping a “couple”. isnt there an unwritten rule on how many can be sold each year. ,Maybe they are tracing your length of possession.
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That's the only possible thing I can think of? I don't really keep up with how long I keep one although I haven't really sold many most I trade back in if I get rid of them at all.
 
Unless you are a FFL is there a legal requirement to keep copies of alleged 4473's ?

I would be like its not my job to keep copies of firearms I sold thru a FFL.
 
PAE said:
Unless you are a FFL is there a legal requirement to keep copies of alleged 4473's ?

I would be like its not my job to keep copies of firearms I sold thru a FFL.
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I personally don't have any 4473s I was referring to the ATF wanting copies of all of them where I have made a purchase. I have a inventory because I like to keep up with what I have but it is out of date right now.
 
A lawyer will do you no good. The shops you e transferred firearms at have the records. They’ll give them to the ATF regardless of what you’re afraid of or want.
 
RunningProblem said:
A lawyer will do you no good. The shops you e transferred firearms at have the records. They’ll give them to the ATF regardless of what you’re afraid of or want.
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I know that there is nothing I can do to stop them, but I'll be damned if I know that there is a potential investigation and not speak with my lawyer ahead of time! I've got too much time on the other side of investigations to not be proactive!
 
Sheesh, with all much more going on, they're going after a guy who buys 5 a year that sell a couple.

Keep us posted and nothing but best outcome of the situation.
 
rockmup said:
The customer doesn't get a copy of the 4473, ever.
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Didn't PAE used to claim that he had a FFL :shaking:

To OP I wonder if something that had a serial number once tied to you was used in a crime or was stolen
 
ChiScouter said:
Didn't PAE used to claim that he had a FFL :shaking:

To OP I wonder if something that had a serial number once tied to you was used in a crime or was stolen
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About 15yrs ago a gun I had traded in at a shop was used in a murder/suicide. ATF called the local LE and told them I was the owner. Luckily the chief was a friend so he simply called me and asked who I sold it to, I gave him dealer's name and dealer provided proof that shooter had legally purchased it. Even then, no one had said anything about anybody wanting all my records.
 
What? said:
Sheesh, with all much more going on, they're going after a guy who buys 5 a year that sell a couple.

Keep us posted and nothing but best outcome of the situation.
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low hanging fruit

dont forget for a second they are lazyAF
 
I realized I forgot to update, after a few calls around with no luck, I went back to ask him for the agent's name. He stated that he didn't have it to which I replied, "Well my lawyer wants it so do we need to seek other avenues?" He then started laughing and said he was messing with me and had made it all up:mad3:. I informed him that they were now cut out of my sphere of business:flipoff:. I may cool down but I doubt it!
 
6gun said:
I realized I forgot to update, after a few calls around with no luck, I went back to ask him for the agent's name. He stated that he didn't have it to which I replied, "Well my lawyer wants it so do we need to seek other avenues?" He then started laughing and said he was messing with me and had made it all up:mad3:. I informed him that they were now cut out of my sphere of business:flipoff:. I may cool down but I doubt it!
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Wow.:shaking:
 
300sniper said:
No make, model or serial numbers on a 4473. Simply handgun, long gun or other firearm.
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I'm pretty sure they still contain all that info! The old "Background check request" only asked handgun, long gun or firearm.
 
aczlan said:
You are thinking of what the FFL reports to the ATF, form 4473 is what they use to track retail sales of firearms and it has all that information on it.

Aaron Z
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Yeah, I never buy/sell with a 4473, but had it in my head it was the same “firearm specific” info as a AFMER/5300.11. Took a glance at my stack of dusty 4473s the ATF gave me, and stopped on the back of the first page.
 
6gun said:
I realized I forgot to update, after a few calls around with no luck, I went back to ask him for the agent's name. He stated that he didn't have it to which I replied, "Well my lawyer wants it so do we need to seek other avenues?" He then started laughing and said he was messing with me and had made it all up:mad3:. I informed him that they were now cut out of my sphere of business:flipoff:. I may cool down but I doubt it!
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Wow that's pretty fucking stupid.

Man I hate people. :shaking: hopefully the next shop likes your business
 
BATFE isnt going to tell the FFL theyre looking for anything let alone what theyre looking for They will just go in and do an audit and copy the info they need. Why would they tip off a target? For all they know the FFL might be involved in any shenanigans going on.

For the record getting the agents name wouldnt have accomplished anything. They would tell your attorney to pound sand until theyre ready to talk to you. All that would do is make the agent curious as to why you felt the need to get an attorney involved before they even talked to you. Its one thing to have an attorney. Its a whole different thing to send an attorney poking around without knowing what theyre looking for.
 
Stuck said:
BATFE isnt going to tell the FFL theyre looking for anything let alone what theyre looking for They will just go in and do an audit and copy the info they need. Why would they tip off a target? For all they know the FFL might be involved in any shenanigans going on.

For the record getting the agents name wouldnt have accomplished anything. They would tell your attorney to pound sand until theyre ready to talk to you. All that would do is make the agent curious as to why you felt the need to get an attorney involved before they even talked to you. Its one thing to have an attorney. Its a whole different thing to send an attorney poking around without knowing what theyre looking for.
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Thank you for the sage words of wisdom but I feel it best to leave the legal work up to lawyers and if my lawyer says they want the info, I get it for them or at least try! That's called keeping your bill lower, and your lawyer happy, both good things in my opinion!
 
6gun said:
Thank you for the sage words of wisdom but I feel it best to leave the legal work up to lawyers and if my lawyer says they want the info, I get it for them or at least try! That's called keeping your bill lower, and your lawyer happy, both good things in my opinion!
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I get it, never hurts to have your ducks in a row, but I dont poke the bear.
 
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so you didn't get more information before jumping to a lawyer? Crappy joke though if you didn't know the dude very well.
 
Weasel said:
so you didn't get more information before jumping to a lawyer? Crappy joke though if you didn't know the dude very well.
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Dude was slammed the day he told me so I left, checked in with a couple of people I know in places that might be handy, and then called the lawyer. I have been an investigator, even shortly with a federal agency. One thing I feel is important if you are the subject of an investigation is to let your lawyer know ASAP, now isn't even fast enough. Second thing you get in line is bail arrangements for a variety of amounts. Then go back to trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Maybe not perfect reasoning, but I have my reasons! Yeah, there's no one on this Earth that could pull off that joke with me and not piss me off. Family knows better and if you're not family then it damn sure ain't gonna sit well!

Edited for clarity
 
6gun said:
Dude was slammed the day he told me so I left, checked in with a couple of people I know in places that might be handy, and then called the lawyer. I have been an investigator, even shortly with a federal agency. One thing I feel is important if you are the subject of an investigation is to let your lawyer know ASAP, now isn't even fast enough. Second thing you get in line is bail arrangements for a variety of amounts. Then go back to trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Maybe not perfect reasoning, but I have my reasons! Yeah, there's no one on this Earth that could pull off that joke with me and not piss me off. Family knows better and if you're not family then it damn sure ain't gonna sit well!

Edited for clarity
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hell, i'm pissed off for you and i'm just reading about it. can't stand shit like this.
 
6gun said:
Dude was slammed the day he told me so I left, checked in with a couple of people I know in places that might be handy, and then called the lawyer. I have been an investigator, even shortly with a federal agency. One thing I feel is important if you are the subject of an investigation is to let your lawyer know ASAP, now isn't even fast enough. Second thing you get in line is bail arrangements for a variety of amounts. Then go back to trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Maybe not perfect reasoning, but I have my reasons! Yeah, there's no one on this Earth that could pull off that joke with me and not piss me off. Family knows better and if you're not family then it damn sure ain't gonna sit well!

Edited for clarity
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You were an investigator for a federal agency? What series? If you were you should have known better than to fall for that, and you should know that any federal agency isnt going to tell your attorney anything until theyre either ready to ask you in for an interview, hand you a subpoena or warrant.
 
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