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ATF changes decision on AR pistol braces

Well there goes that. Everyone will just bend over backwards just like the bump stock ban because it’s a dumb mod and doesn’t even benefit any real gun owner. Or something along those lines like the bump stock. :mad3:
 
it defied all logic and common sense when they let arm braces through the first time. because it was and is a stock.

walks like a stock, quacks like a stock, but its a "brace". for about 6 years people have been doing mental gymnastics and engaging in intellectual dishonesty defending that whole deal.

I get that it was a poke in the eye to the ATF. but history has shown that you poke the ATF in the eye, it may take a couple of years, but they're going to get even by breaking your jaw, kicking you in the nuts and shooting your dog.
 
Well just look at that. This is the kind of attitude that will cost us all of our firearms.

It doesn't affect me and people should have know better, it was just a novelty anyway. Real weapons of war aren't built that way for a reason. It's like the bump stock ban all over again. There are 3-4 million pistol braces.

If you can't see how we need to stop them from saying that something is legal then just deciding that no it is not because they change their mind.

If you don't stand up against this now then we will continue to fall one category at a time until there is nothing left.

So long as it doesn't affect you this round you can't be bothered. Just see where that gets you.
 
aron82 said:
Well just look at that. This is the kind of attitude that will cost us all of our firearms.

It doesn't affect me and people should have know better, it was just a novelty anyway. Real weapons of war aren't built that way for a reason. It's like the bump stock ban all over again. There are 3-4 million pistol braces.

If you can't see how we need to stop them from saying that something is legal then just deciding that no it is not because they change their mind.

If you don't stand up against this now then we will continue to fall one category at a time until there is nothing left.

So long as it doesn't affect you this round you can't be bothered. Just see where that gets you.
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those AR pistols with "pistol braces", will still fire and operate the same way they did before you put a pistol brace on them.


IMO, the bumpstock issue was MUCH worse than this. pistol braces were always stocks. a bumpstock was NEVER a FULL AUTO part, by every definition of the law.


as for your stand-up and fight rah-rah shit, this really isn't the hill to die on. is it shitty? sure. But there are much more important items that need to be focused on fighting, like the biden plan to outlaw all online sales of firearms and firearm PARTS. The magazine capacity limit ban. ban on all semi-autos. Universal Background checks for private sales, which is a defacto national gun registry, and so on.


basically, everyone got a 6-8 year vacation from having to conform to the SBR law. Now that vacation is over, unfortunately.
 
Texas97 said:
I get that it was a poke in the eye to the ATF. but history has shown that you poke the ATF in the eye, it may take a couple of years, but they're going to get even by breaking your jaw, kicking you in the nuts and shooting your dog.
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give them enough rope....

aron82 said:
Well just look at that. This is the kind of attitude that will cost us all of our firearms.

It doesn't affect me and people should have know better, it was just a novelty anyway. Real weapons of war aren't built that way for a reason. It's like the bump stock ban all over again. There are 3-4 million pistol braces..
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I get that and agree but on the same hand anyone would look at a brace and say that's a stock. Law says you need an SBR for that. We should be fighting to either do away with the SBR completely or improve the process stupid easy and cheap.

Texas97 said:
as for your stand-up and fight rah-rah shit, this really isn't the hill to die on. is it shitty? sure. But there are much more important items that need to be focused on fighting, like the biden plan to outlaw all online sales of firearms and firearm PARTS. The magazine capacity limit ban. ban on all semi-autos. Universal Background checks for private sales, which is a defacto national gun registry, and so on.


basically, everyone got a 6-8 year vacation from having to conform to the SBR law. Now that vacation is over, unfortunately.
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Also agree.
 
The honey badger is under 26 inches. That’s why the ATF has a hard on for it.
 
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TheRedHorseman said:
There is zero accountability, the rope does nothing. There needs to be legislation to reign them in but nobody wants to touch that.
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No I meant on our side, that's how the ATF looks at it. "ATF -> lets just give vague and unclear direction and enough idiots will force the issue and then we can change our stance and be the biggest dicks."

And I agree they need to enforce what's written not interpret. That's the courts job.
 
Aisin said:
The honey badger is under 26 inches. That’s why the ATF has a hard on for it.
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Thought that might be the issue, as they stated it is 20-25” depending on stock position, but the ATF’s own definition of a pistol is “a firearm less than 26”, so it should support Q’s stance. One video referenced a length of pull over 13 1/2”, my SBA3 only goes out to 12 1/2” on an AR lower.
 
They need to use this to get rid of the NFA.

The brace was made by SB tactical along with most of the braces out there. I am sure they sent it in for approval before making any production run of them. The problem is that the ATF changed their determination on something that was already out there. I wouldn't have a problem if they said no it's a stock before they put it on sale.

The whole thing shows just how stupid the SBR and SBS laws are.
 
Not happy about it, nor am I surprised. Definitely bullshit, but anyone banking on this to last forever was a fool.

It's indicative of much larger issues with this much Federal power in general and why laws are meant to be written plainly and in the language of the day, not legalese. It's not the ATF's job to interpret the law and we shouldn't be counting on them to give us a favorable interpretation. It's long past time to repeal the NFA and the Gun Control Act of 68. I can't imagine either holding up to Constitutional scrutiny anymore, especially after Heller, McDonald, and Caerano Vs. Mass.

Also wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't intentional to get gun owners to appeal to Trump to intervene and force more bad press before the election.
 
Ban Bumpstocks: Not my problem, they are a gimmick anyways
Ban pistol braces: OMGWTFBBQ!!!

Yeah... you see how this progresses? This is why you stand up against anything like this, whether it directly affects you or not.
 
Motorcharge said:
Not happy about it, nor am I surprised. Definitely bullshit, but anyone banking on this to last forever was a fool.

It's indicative of much larger issues with this much Federal power in general and why laws are meant to be written plainly and in the language of the day, not legalese. It's not the ATF's job to interpret the law and we shouldn't be counting on them to give us a favorable interpretation. It's long past time to repeal the NFA and the Gun Control Act of 68. I can't imagine either holding up to Constitutional scrutiny anymore, especially after Heller, McDonald, and Caerano Vs. Mass.

Also wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't intentional to get gun owners to appeal to Trump to intervene and force more bad press before the election.
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fuck i hope it goes the other way and that over the next 4 years trump can drain the ATF swamp.

Supreme Court needs to take up these cases and, hopefully, it seems like they might be open to that idea.
 
Provience said:
fuck i hope it goes the other way and that over the next 4 years trump can drain the ATF swamp.

Supreme Court needs to take up these cases and, hopefully, it seems like they might be open to that idea.
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Thomas is all for taking up 2A cases, especially given that the Ninth is constantly ignoring recent landmark cases. Problem is none of the conservative wing trust Roberts to be their 5th vote on 2A cases. If Barrett gets confirmed it's pretty likely that we see more 2A cases end up in the SCOTUS instead of getting turned away.

Probably wishful thinking, but if Trump gets re-elected I'd like to see him push Congress to break up the Ninth and redistrict the Federal appellate courts in general. They're supposed to be population based and haven't been addressed since the 60s. The Ninth only covers as much territory as it does because it was formed in the late 1860s and didn't cover more than 2-3 states until the late 1940s. It currently represents nearly 20% of the country and double any other court. It wields far more judicial power than it was ever meant to and currently acts as a de facto Supreme Court since the actual SCOTUS can't handle the caseload that comes out the Ninth. The Ninth gets overturned in the SCOTUS at 79% and the SCOTUS can only take about 100 cases a year nationally out of about 7000 they get asked to review. The appellate courts in general have become a way to bypass the SCOTUS instead of lightening their caseload. The entire thing needs to be restructured and gutted of judicial activists judges on both sides of the aisle.
 
last I saw it was only the one overpriced specifically named model

just more of the atf doing what it's always done
 
Enough people got mad, that they have given a 60 day reprieve (most likely so they can get with their attorneys and figure out some sort of legal justification for what they did).

Maybe they are just hoping it will blow over and Biden will get elected.
 
They just did a 60 day suspension on their ruling on the Honey Badger.... :stirthepot::lmao:
 
D_JEEPER said:
They just did a 60 day suspension on their ruling on the Honey Badger.... :stirthepot::lmao:
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Anyone else notice that an ATF field agent made the ruling? Odd since field agents aren’t tasked to do that kind of thing.
 
While I don't own one and don't care much, I still worry about how their doing this. (Pick at our rights till they get to something I care about) Also I don't understand how they can make something illegal and not pay you for it.

When it comes to SBR's, am I the only one that never understood why they are special?

Like,

It doesn't really have anything to do with the power of the gun. (Some handguns are more powerful than SBR's)

It doesn't really have anything to do with the accuracy of the gun. (Some handguns have better accuracy)

I can't even say it is about length because if you get a rifle with the chamber in the stock, it's about the same length as a AR SBR.

I just don't understand how or why that rule got made.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
They needed a scapegoat.
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It’s been said it’s a red herring to get 4 million brace owners pissed off at Trump just before election. I’d not be surprised one bit at this point.
 
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