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Another LS engine thread - refresh must-do's while it's out?

Bebop

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May 26, 2020
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If that helps you trust my experience, I just fired another engine I "put together" (IE cam, springs and AFM delete), with no issues.
Also built the harness twice for that one. Buggy was supposed to get a gen3 then the owner changed his mind so I did a 24x to 58x conversion.

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What is your budget?

Taking an engine from a running truck my only to do list would be solve any leaks then jam it in. You may already be on the hook for anything not working right like coils or injectors.

If you want more power then I'd be setting a realistic budget and pulling it apart at this stage of the project.

Do you need this to be nuts reliable or is this a weekend toy?
 
Skinny said:
What is your budget?

Taking an engine from a running truck my only to do list would be solve any leaks then jam it in. You may already be on the hook for anything not working right like coils or injectors.

If you want more power then I'd be setting a realistic budget and pulling it apart at this stage of the project.

Do you need this to be nuts reliable or is this a weekend toy?
Click to expand...

budget is ideally <$1000 all in, but I'm not looking to waste $$. Goal is something as reliable as the stock escalade was, but a little more power and sound, hence the mild cam for low end TQ. The only issue this engine ever had was a misfire at sustained higher RPM's, which only happened if I mistakenly left it in 3rd on the highway for a stretch, and i think in the rain only, which made me assume cracked coil casing and humidity or something like that.

based on all the feedback, I think my play will be keep it simple. Rear cover + seal while its very accessible unless mine looks great when I yank it out. Cam, cam coverplate/gasket, springs, valve cover gaskets. Injectors: 2002 didn't have flex fuel, I'll read up on if I should upgrade or not with the mild cam. and I may do headers, if the OEM escalade manifolds and downpipes don't tuck in well

Depending on how it sounds when I start it next time and weather is colder, MAYBE I'll pull the trigger on lifters and head gaskets.

Tuning likely just a mail order tune to turn of VATS + the couple minor mods. was tempted by the Holley Terminator but it's $250tune+$150 ebay harness, or $1400 Holley kit.


probably gonna grab something like this eventually and test it out in the Yukon to see if it'd be a good supplement to simple analog gauges. thats a little ways out, and i spent my play money on ammo this month
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budget76 said:
Rear cover + seal while its very accessible unless mine looks great when I yank it out.
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Even if it looks good, do it.

budget76 said:
Injectors: 2002 didn't have flex fuel
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Yes some did. It was an option.

budget76 said:
Depending on how it sounds when I start it next time and weather is colder, MAYBE I'll pull the trigger on lifters and head gaskets.
Click to expand...
Don't do head gaskets it's useless.

budget76 said:
Tuning likely just a mail order tune to turn of VATS + the couple minor mods. was tempted by the Holley Terminator but it's $250tune+$150 ebay harness, or $1400 Holley kit.
Click to expand...
You're gonna want more than a mailorder tune if you put a cam.

budget76 said:
probably gonna grab something like this eventually and test it out in the Yukon to see if it'd be a good supplement to simple analog gauges. thats a little ways out, and i spent my play money on ammo this month
1698687003699.png
Click to expand...
You don't need that. Just rewire the factory gauges of the IH in the engine and run with it.
Only thing you care about is the oil pressure and temperature. If that...
 
Bebop said:
Even if it looks good, do it.


Yes some did. It was an option.


Don't do head gaskets it's useless.


You're gonna want more than a mailorder tune if you put a cam.


You don't need that. Just rewire the factory gauges of the IH in the engine and run with it.
Only thing you care about is the oil pressure and temperature. If that...
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thanks again

will do rear cover - sold.

head gaskets - was only if I do lifters if i hear a noisy one. even then, i may just ignore it for now

fair on mailorder - maybe the local guy who tuned out the 02's on my Yukon and did that up to turbo-LS's is still around and would want to make some more cash using HPTuners for me

agreed on the gauges, its just a cheap way to get that extra info off the OBD2 port vs analog. looks like a cool little gauge setup to move around cars from the reviews. but yeah, probably useless long term
 
Yeah under a grand I'd do whatever gaskets/seals are convenient while the engine is sitting in front of you and that's it.

Once you have it installed, running, dialed in, then maybe budget for some upgrades. IMO

Mail order tunes...ugh. I am satisfied with how much power my 8.1 makes but it's still running lean even with the "tune". Still had issues after the fact with codes and going into limp for no reason. Bought my own HP Tuners and actually made it work.

For gauges it boils down to budget. I put a full suite of aftermarket in my CUCV and I think you are north of a grand for anything nice.

Being OBDII you can do a lot with screens and using the data from the port. Like mentioned you can use a bare bones amount of mechanical gauges then put a cheapo scan gauge to see the rest.

I'll say it again, my opinion is to run factory stuff with a harness of your choice over anything aftermarket for 99% of the use cases.
 
budget76 said:
agreed on the gauges, its just a cheap way to get that extra info off the OBD2 port vs analog. looks like a cool little gauge setup to move around cars from the reviews. but yeah, probably useless long term
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Just get a $20 bluetooth dongle so you can check the data on your phone if/when you need it.

Skinny said:
Mail order tunes...ugh. I am satisfied with how much power my 8.1 makes but it's still running lean even with the "tune". Still had issues after the fact with codes and going into limp for no reason. Bought my own HP Tuners and actually made it work.
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I just read : I'm satisfied with my mail order tune but it ran like shit, I had to spend $500 on HPT and learn how to tune in order to make it work.
Just get it tuned right from the get go, makes a lot more sense.

If you don't put a cam and keep everything stock, then by all means, get an online guy to unlock the VATS and rear 02s but that's not what we're talking about here.
 
Front/rear main seal. On actual LS (GEN III) engines there are no locating pins for the front/rear covers, so make sure to use an alignment tool. You can eyeball it, but fawk man, would suck to have to yank it out in 3 months because the seal was offcenter.

Rocker arms. I did SBI 180-1337 Rocker arms (QTY 2 to cover the motor) because they're circlip (not pressed in) and reasonably priced.

Oil pump. If everything's stock, Melling M295 is fine.

I did new lifters. 850-16 Crane Cams lifter set

3114 Comp Cams timing set



And yeah, lifter trays, etc. I ended up getting the heads refreshed while they were out. Super cheap, and they installed the valve springs for me.
 
Rockwood said:
Front/rear main seal. On actual LS (GEN III) engines there are no locating pins for the front/rear covers, so make sure to use an alignment tool. You can eyeball it, but fawk man, would suck to have to yank it out in 3 months because the seal was offcenter.
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Yes. I use the oil pan for that.
 
Bebop said:
Just get a $20 bluetooth dongle so you can check the data on your phone if/when you need it.


I just read : I'm satisfied with my mail order tune but it ran like shit, I had to spend $500 on HPT and learn how to tune in order to make it work.
Just get it tuned right from the get go, makes a lot more sense.

If you don't put a cam and keep everything stock, then by all means, get an online guy to unlock the VATS and rear 02s but that's not what we're talking about here.
Click to expand...
Actually you mis interpreted that. I think its probably leaving some power on the table but it's a low priority to have it tuned by a pro. Plus I have changes at some point I'd like to make first before getting that finalized. Not sure where you got that it runs like shit. But thanks for speaking on my behalf on my own fucking truck chief 👌


But as it came it still had code issues which I didn't want to go back and forth on through the mail. Yes this was a reputable place and they did want to make it right. But I decided to spend the money and do it myself. Did not change any mapping with timing or fuel, just codes and set parameters.

I also had other projects I needed to make engine swaps works so I could justify spending the money. If I own the truck I'd prefer to have the tooling to do whatever I want.
 
Rockwood said:
Which you probably removed to swap the pump and everything else during the refresh, and also doesn't have alignment pins. :flipoff2:
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Remove the oil pan gasket.
Bolt and tighten the oil pan directly against the block.
Bolt the front and rear covers loosely.
Tighten the cover to oil pan bolts.
Tighten the cover to block bolts.
Remove oil pan.
Install oil pan gasket.

That's what I do.
 
for the front/rear covers, the video i linked earlier seems to have a good approach. in the front he used the balancer partially sucked in, and a straight edge across the block/cover to check

rear he used the plastic filler thing that comes with the gasket and the crank, then checked it with a straightedge too.

i've also seen a video or two where they do the above pan install method.



appreciate all the tips and input guys, really. Hoping other newbies are finding it interesting too
 
Bebop said:
You said :


Looks like all of the signs of a truck that runs perfectly
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Thanks for your remote diagnostics. No idea of what hardware is on the engine, what the fuel trim is doing, or any other pertinent information.
You are aware that an engine may be slightly rich or lean of 14.7 but yet still run fine right?

Maybe if you weren't trying to club everything with your big swinging dick you'd know that...
 
So circling back to this thread, what I wound up ordering for the internals:

Cam, springs/seals/retainers, LS7 lifters/trays, full gasket kit, head bolts, balancer bolt, cam retainer plate. grabbed the cheap metal barbell/galley plug/hold down combo for $10 off ebay because I'll be in there and the original plastic has a billion heat cycles over the 175k miles it's seen.

I'll probably throw in some reman flex fuel injectors once I confirm what it has now.

Going to re-use the front and rear covers with new gaskets since I have the full gasket kit.

Hoping to keep the truck oil pan, that'll depend on the test fit and how low it hangs. I've played the slammed car game, I don't want to have to overthink driving this. Maybe I'll fab up a simple skit plate instead depending on how low it sits. TBD

was VERY tempted to go with the $60 head stud set, but I went with the $30 TTY bolts instead. the 1 of 100 reports of the stud breaking off deep down in the block scared me enough to stay away from the studs


think thats about it. Current plan for tuning is OEM computer, cheap-ish harness, keep the DBW pedal, and contact the local guy who did some stuff on my Yukon a couple years back. the ACES package is still tempting, since for $1k I'd get the whole harness, software, handheld 7" screen/dash, etc. Figuring staying OEM I'll be somewhere around $300/harness, $3-500/tune, $xx for gauges/display. BUT the OEM option has a true tuner versus me playing with software or letting it auto-learn, however it would do that. In reality, that's an issue for many months from now
 
for newbies like me, I'm learning from some videos. dropping the tips here:

You'll also need an oil cooler block off plate. only $10-20, but another piece I didn't realize I'll need.

I will also have to buy knock sensors since mine broken when trying to disconnect. Reading up, you can delete them but that may make tuning harder and they're probably a good safeguard to leave in place. They sell valley pan covers without the holes for cheap. I have to do more reading before I order a pair

as well as a dipstick tube since mine wouldn't come out without vise grips and a deadblow.

you do NOT need the special balancer puller, you just need the medium size 3 jaw from your HF set and a bolt/washer smaller than the ID of the harmonic balancer to stick in place of the crank bolt and push against.

exhaust studs, all mine came out after about 8 sprays of PB and sitting for days. had 4 broken off studs too, 3 came out. the 4th was corroded so bad it just twisted off with no effort. I have 2 to get out of the head once I have them on the bench, one in each head.
 
gt1guy said:
What cam did you get? Specs?
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Copy/paste of my comments from my build thread:

Cam/springs/retainers ordered. Went with a Summit Stage 3 Truck cam after much reading into things I don't fully understand. But I went with this one for 3 main reasons:
1. I'm still a cheapass at heart and BTR/TSP cams are $100+ more. I'm also doing lifters high lift cams meant another $150-200 in springs, plus probably pushrods. This can run with $60 LS6 springs and stock pushrods (unless any look like shit, then I'll throw in new OEM spec ones). If I wasn't doing lifters I'd probably have gone ST2 high lift
2. higher lift reduces reliability/spring life (maybe meaningless at the miles it'll see, but whatever)
3. I prefer lower end power to high RPM max. I'd rather another 20TQ at 3,000RPM than 20HP at 6,000RPM for this build
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on the FITech, I've read some mixed reviews. I'd also rather keep the DBW pedal for simplicity of install and clean engine bay, and it says in the specs it requires DBC. that'd mean another $50-150 or whatever in parts to convert to DBC, a different gas pedal probably or hack up the original IH one, etc.
 
ACES / FiTech are terrible products imo. Keep your OEM ECU for your build.

I don’t understand something you’re claiming to be a cheap ass and counting pennies as a justification to buy a lower quality camshaft just to buy a headgaskets kit + $30 shitty TTY bolts vs reusing the factory ones which are better quality anyway.

A good cam is THE ingredient for a happy top end. Keep the LS6 springs, they’re good, but IMO dropping the coin on a Truck Norris is worth it.
 
I’d pass on the Fitech, I put one in a buddy’s truck that had problems right out of the box. We sent it back to summit and found out they were dealing with multiple returns of them.
 
Bebop said:
ACES / FiTech are terrible products imo. Keep your OEM ECU for your build.

I don’t understand something you’re claiming to be a cheap ass and counting pennies as a justification to buy a lower quality camshaft just to buy a headgaskets kit + $30 shitty TTY bolts vs reusing the factory ones which are better quality anyway.

A good cam is THE ingredient for a happy top end. Keep the LS6 springs, they’re good, but IMO dropping the coin on a Truck Norris is worth it.
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It was more I didn't want to spend another $150-200 on valve springs for a higher lift cam, which are also from what I read less reliable and harsher on the valvetrain and wear out quicker. Again, reading only. I'm eventually hoping to put 5-10k miles/year on this thing, it's not going to be a 500 mile/year driver.

What does the Truck Norris give me the Summit doesn't, other than name? I've got larger duration, which I read somewhere wouldn't hurt on the larger 6.0 vs a 5.3. same lift. I saw TONS of uses of the TN / Chopacabra on the 4.8/5.3, way less on the 6.0, leading me to believe it's more focused at the 4.8/5.3 since they're more common in pickups. but is it 50% better, it's ~50% more cost. Maybe a little lower LSA would have been nice to get the idle chop? the TN / Chopa seem hyped for their names blowing up on social media as much as performance, but i'm not smart enough to know if it's actually warranted or if it's just all Cletus' followers talking them up to each other

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headgaskets were because I'm doing lifters, I had no choice. piecemealing the gaskets, even without doing the headgaskets, would have probably been $100+ so for another $100 I've got a full kit. I do not want lifter tick, and I have zero desire to rip the entire top end apart in the truck when I find the thing makes noise.


95% chance I stay stock PCM and get it tuned. I've read the same issues with FITech and ACES knowledge isn't out there yet, and I'm definitely not a tuner

appreciate the input/back and forth.
 
oh, and I ordered the cheap valve spring compressor tool for $15ish and the cover position tools for $25ish off Amazon. Also ordered a $20ish flexibile oil dipstick since mine's mangled since it was so stuck.

steam tubes/ports are another thing for newbies to read up on. Looks like similar to the knock sensors, they're better to keep but can be deleted with potential downsides
 
Honestly, if your working with a engine that already has 175k on it, I wouldn't be slapping a spicy cam in it.

Reseal it, new stock flow/psi oil pump, new timing chain. Have a look at the cam lobes and lifters. If either look sketchy, replace both. A spicy cam is going to really test your ring pack sealing, because the whole point of a bigger cam is more cylinder pressure.

Just another data point to consider.
 
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