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ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Your charge air cooler that run on its own circuit with its own radiator? You have a temp gauge on those coolant lines?
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Yea, the intercooler is plumbed off the aluminum tank you see on the right. (It doubles as an overflow tank for the rad) I don’t have a gauge on it. I have pulled over and pointed a temp gun at it. I think it was like 130. Might have gone up with my reverse of the rad fans.

I’ve got a couple tests to do in the next few days. I want to put a temp gauge in the engine compartment on a 95 degree day. I wish I had done that before the rad fan reverse. Not sure exactly where I want to put the sensor. Anyways, I’ll get a reading at, say, 60 mph and idle. Then I want to pull the engine cover and get the same readings. I also want to pull the radiator grill and make a run.

These tests could tell me if I want to make some holes in the engine cover or more holes feeding the rad.

I have a temp gauge that blue tooth’s to a remote unit, but it doesn’t work inside the truck. I guess because of the metal cab. So I’m going to have to get someone to ride in the back. Kind of tough on a 95 degree day.
 
WaterH said:
Yea, the intercooler is plumbed off the aluminum tank you see on the right. (It doubles as an overflow tank for the rad) I don’t have a gauge on it. I have pulled over and pointed a temp gun at it. I think it was like 130. Might have gone up with my reverse of the rad fans.

I’ve got a couple tests to do in the next few days. I want to put a temp gauge in the engine compartment on a 95 degree day. I wish I had done that before the rad fan reverse. Not sure exactly where I want to put the sensor. Anyways, I’ll get a reading at, say, 60 mph and idle. Then I want to pull the engine cover and get the same readings. I also want to pull the radiator grill and make a run.

These tests could tell me if I want to make some holes in the engine cover or more holes feeding the rad.

I have a temp gauge that blue tooth’s to a remote unit, but it doesn’t work inside the truck. I guess because of the metal cab. So I’m going to have to get someone to ride in the back. Kind of tough on a 95 degree day.
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Is there a radiator to cool water from the intercooler? Or you just using a heater hose line off the main radiator to cool the intercooler system?
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Is there a radiator to cool water from the intercooler? Or you just using a heater hose line off the main radiator to cool the intercooler system?
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If the intercooler is just running the engine coolant, that cant be that much cooler than the air when the engine is running along at 230degF. Meaning it wouldn't cool the air much. Decreased intake air would directly drop EGT and im sure decrease engine temp with the confined engine.

I love this rig. WaterH you did a great job and i cant wait till you get this cooling dialed in and can cruise at 70 :dustin:
 
Clemson13 said:
If the intercooler is just running the engine coolant, that cant be that much cooler than the air when the engine is running along at 230degF. Meaning it wouldn't cool the air much. Decreased intake air would directly drop EGT and im sure decrease engine temp with the confined engine.

I love this rig. WaterH you did a great job and i cant wait till you get this cooling dialed in and can cruise at 70 :dustin:
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This is what I was getting at. Unsure if it’s a second system or just a loop to the tank or plumbed into the radiator. WaterH was pretty unclear in his answer to me earlier.
 
It sounded to me like the water to air intercooler is plumbed into engine coolant, like the oem after cooler setup on some variations of these engines. Effective, but it has limitations. At 220* coolant temp the intercooler isn't doing much of anything imo.

I know I've been a bit abrasive, but I also really like this truck and what WaterH is doing with it. The rad needs more airflow, or needs to be larger at current airflow, to shed enough heat. Imagine trying to drive up a mountain with the current setup, it'd pop a hg before the first 1000'.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
At 220* coolant temp the intercooler isn't doing much of anything imo.
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220 indicated engine temp doesn't mean the cool side of the rad is 220. And that's probably where it's getting its coolant if he copied an OEM setup.

That said, he has radiator airflow issues so it's probably not particularly cool on the cold side of the rad.
 
Clemson13 said:
If the intercooler is just running the engine coolant, that cant be that much cooler than the air when the engine is running along at 230degF. Meaning it wouldn't cool the air much. Decreased intake air would directly drop EGT and im sure decrease engine temp with the confined engine.

I love this rig. WaterH you did a great job and i cant wait till you get this cooling dialed in and can cruise at 70 :dustin:
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I had it plumb in to the rad at first and it worked, but I separated it later. Like Arse said, the cool side of the rad is much cooler than the head. Even then, I had the cool side of the rad plumbed to a separate mini rad to cool it further just for the IC. I went through several changes. It is all documented a few pages back.

GLTHFJ60 said:
It sounded to me like the water to air intercooler is plumbed into engine coolant, like the oem after cooler setup on some variations of these engines. Effective, but it has limitations. At 220* coolant temp the intercooler isn't doing much of anything imo.

I know I've been a bit abrasive, but I also really like this truck and what WaterH is doing with it. The rad needs more airflow, or needs to be larger at current airflow, to shed enough heat. Imagine trying to drive up a mountain with the current setup, it'd pop a hg before the first 1000'.
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There are no temperature problems at slower speeds. I have climbed mountains (4000’) without issue. I just have to drive slower like a big rig. Not sure if a 12,000’ mountain will be a problem. Does the turbo run out of air up there?
 
WaterH said:
There are no temperature problems at slower speeds. I have climbed mountains (4000’) without issue. I just have to drive slower like a big rig. Not sure if a 12,000’ mountain will be a problem. Does the turbo run out of air up there?
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No, the turbo wouldn't be running out of air at 4k. It would start wheezing at 12k though. If you can't keep speed because of engine temperature then that's definitely a problem. Big rigs have to slow down going up steep grades because they're power limited, not because they're on the verge of overheating.

For example, my F550 towing my enclosed trailer grosses 26k and going up a 5.3% average grade, 1400' elevation gain in just under 5 miles, is power limited. I can't keep the speed up even with my foot on the floor, but the coolant temp doesn't get above 235*. That engine likes to run warm too, seems to like being at 215-220* all the time while towing.

No issue at slower speeds because the engine isn't working as hard. That's obvious. I guess if that's all you're going to use it for, then you're good, but for a highway driver, nah.

Bebop said:
This means it's an airflow issue.
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^^ I think this is known at this point, but how to fix it. More fan, bigger radiator, more directed airflow, or all of the above.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
No, the turbo wouldn't be running out of air at 4k. It would start wheezing at 12k though. If you can't keep speed because of engine temperature then that's definitely a problem. Big rigs have to slow down going up steep grades because they're power limited, not because they're on the verge of overheating.

For example, my F550 towing my enclosed trailer grosses 26k and going up a 5.3% average grade, 1400' elevation gain in just under 5 miles, is power limited. I can't keep the speed up even with my foot on the floor, but the coolant temp doesn't get above 235*. That engine likes to run warm too, seems to like being at 215-220* all the time while towing.

No issue at slower speeds because the engine isn't working as hard. That's obvious. I guess if that's all you're going to use it for, then you're good, but for a highway driver, nah.


^^ I think this is known at this point, but how to fix it. More fan, bigger radiator, more directed airflow, or all of the above.
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Your F550 is a factory detuned motor. If I were to return the 4BT in mine to factory specs, I also could put my foot on the floor without any heat related issue. But I don’t choose to do that. I don’t mind monitoring EGT and water temps while I’m driving to gain spirited performance.

I have a friend that has a Dodge pickup with a 1000 hp. It’s quite a thrill to ride in, but he doesn’t keep his foot on the floor very long or he will melt the engine.

As far as “how to fix it” , I don’t consider it broken. What I’m trying to do is improve it.



In other news, I had an interesting drive today. I drove down to a near by town about 70 miles away. It was in the high eighty’s and poring down rain. I was driving about 60 mph and the water temp was typical just under 210 degrees. The boost was 20 psi and EGT was running 1200 degrees! That kind of numbers would normally have me doing 70 mph. On the way home, the rain had cleared and it was slightly warmer. I drove at the same speed (60mph) and the boost and EGT was back to normal. I’ve always heard water injection would bring down temps. I guess poring rain is not the same thing.
 
My tuned (canned tune) F450, running 16k all the time, only get 1200+ going up a pass at 60+ mph. I hit 40-50 psi....

You really need a bit more cooling...
My water Temps are 205 regularly. It's a 8' wide 12' tall brick also.

6.4 Ford FWIW.
 
What exhaust size do you have? Driving my old 12 valve truck, I’d drive by the egts only while towing, but that’s because I had 5x14s, 18* of timing, and a stock hx-35. You have a flow problem somewhere.
 
bad zuki said:
What exhaust size do you have? Driving my old 12 valve truck, I’d drive by the egts only while towing, but that’s because I had 5x14s, 18* of timing, and a stock hx-35. You have a flow problem somewhere.
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Looking back in this thread waterh took the stock turbo off and put a smaller exhaust housing on the turbo so it would spool better. This could be the root of the problem.
 
Dougal said:
Nope. Smaller turbines boost harder and reduce EGT. It's flawed logic to think less turbo gives you cooler EGT and water temp problems.
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To small of a housing will increase EGT's. Yes it will spool faster, but it will choke of the upper end. If you never rev it up its not an issue. Highway speeds would be an issue.
 
bdkw1 said:
To small of a housing will increase EGT's. Yes it will spool faster, but it will choke of the upper end. If you never rev it up its not an issue. Highway speeds would be an issue.
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No it doesn't. I've run those exact experiments. The 4BT that he's running is all over before 3000rpm.

Have you ever run a diesel?
 
Dethmachinefab said:
High coolant temp is a symptom of egt, not the other way around.

I'm still thinking some time ought to be spent putting the pump on a bench and also verify injection timing.
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Today’s ride in the heavy rain contradicts that. I had 1200 EGT and the coolant temp did not go up. On the way back, I had 1000 and the same water temp at the same speed. I’m not sure what was going on.

bad zuki said:
What exhaust size do you have? Driving my old 12 valve truck, I’d drive by the egts only while towing, but that’s because I had 5x14s, 18* of timing, and a stock hx-35. You have a flow problem somewhere.
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Exhaust is 3”. I’ve heard if I increase the timing, the EGT goes down. But at the risk of popping a head gasket.

ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Looking back in this thread waterh took the stock turbo off and put a smaller exhaust housing on the turbo so it would spool better. This could be the root of the problem.
Click to expand...

I’ve tried multiple turbo experiments. This one is the most successful and the most common “after market” for this engine.

2big bronco said:
What rpms are you at at 55? What happens to your temps if you downshift?
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2071 at 55 mph

2636 at 70 mph

It has a 3200 governor spring, but it probably starts defueling before that. To be honest, I start defueling before that. lol.

I would probably do better to run taller gears, but I love the low end.
 
Dougal said:
No it doesn't. I've run those exact experiments. The 4BT that he's running is all over before 3000rpm.

Have you ever run a diesel?
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Yes, I currently own 4. Tight AR housings build heat, this is a very well known fact.
 
bdkw1 said:
Yes, I currently own 4. Tight AR housings build heat, this is a very well known fact.
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ROFL. Fact. Nope. Tight housings drive boost which reduces EGT. This is physics.

Source: Engineer who has sized hundreds of turbos for thousands of diesel owners worldwide.
 
WaterH said:
Today’s ride in the heavy rain contradicts that. I had 1200 EGT and the coolant temp did not go up. On the way back, I had 1000 and the same water temp at the same speed. I’m not sure what was going on.



Exhaust is 3”. I’ve heard if I increase the timing, the EGT goes down. But at the risk of popping a head gasket.



I’ve tried multiple turbo experiments. This one is the most successful and the most common “after market” for this engine.



2071 at 55 mph

2636 at 70 mph

It has a 3200 governor spring, but it probably starts defueling before that. To be honest, I start defueling before that. lol.

I would probably do better to run taller gears, but I love the low end.
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Ding ding ding !!! Holy shit peak torque curve is 1750 RPM optimum cruise speed would be 17-1800 rpm. You’re going to kill it in short order running it like that. Want to see a nearly indestructible Cummins eat itself?! Lose overdrive for a while and maintain speed as if you didn’t .
 
Leadfoot21 said:
Ding ding ding !!! Holy shit peak torque curve is 1750 RPM optimum cruise speed would be 17-1800 rpm. You’re going to kill it in short order running it like that. Want to see a nearly indestructible Cummins eat itself?! Lose overdrive for a while and maintain speed as if you didn’t .
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He'll be fine. The 4BT marine engines are laughing at you. What do you think the problem is running at 2600rpm is?

Isuzu 4BD engines turned 3000rpm all day long in their box trucks.
 
Leadfoot21 said:
Ding ding ding !!! Holy shit peak torque curve is 1750 RPM optimum cruise speed would be 17-1800 rpm. You’re going to kill it in short order running it like that. Want to see a nearly indestructible Cummins eat itself?! Lose overdrive for a while and maintain speed as if you didn’t .
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Definitely I could get better mileage cruising at 1750, but I’ve not heard of any reliability problems with the higher rpms. I listed rpms for 70 for reference. I cruise about 60-62 most times. The truck feels good right there and I’m not in a race.
 
Dougal said:
ROFL. Fact. Nope. Tight housings drive boost which reduces EGT. This is physics.

Source: Engineer who has sized hundreds of turbos for thousands of diesel owners worldwide.
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So when I went from a .84 to a 1. on my stupid duty, it dropped EGT's around 200*. This is a common swap. So everybody that did this is wrong? My gauge is lieing to me?
 
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