total newb
senior jerk ass
Youre right, i totaly didnt take one out and rebuild itn put it back and test drive it or get paid when it was done.
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It must have been an aftermarket unit. I have been around H1s, H2s and H3s for 15 years and I have seen both generations of H2s and every trim level. There has never been a factory offered single speed t case in an H2.
Cowboy63b
Rusty garbage hoarder.
So, why not an NP249? Extremely common case. Downsides are really only the VC locking up with age (they are rebuildable, as parts are available from Mopar) and the 3 pinion planetary (I'm pretty sure it can be swapped to a 6 pinion, but I've never done it myself to be absolutely sure).
The input can be swapped just like a 231/242, and has a low range.
AgitatedPancake correct me if I'm wrong, but, Isn't the chain physically wider than a 231/242?
The input can be swapped just like a 231/242, and has a low range.
AgitatedPancake correct me if I'm wrong, but, Isn't the chain physically wider than a 231/242?
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
Sounds like another Arduino project.
I do find that intriguing, and given a lifetime of free time, that could be fun to mess around with, but not for this project.Yeah, and i get I could easily slap a 205 behind the 4L80E (have both), or pickup a 241 and it'd be fine. But I've also driven AWD cars aggressively on the gravel roads all around Michigan like a wannabe rally driver. I've done the same in 2wd and 4wd trucks, and in 2wd the rear end slides out too much, and in 4wd its harder to get them to rotate.
I enjoy slip, slip is fun. The Wagoneer will be built for fun. It's no DD. It's no tow pig. It's a weekend general fuck around rig, meant to be versatile and put a smile on my face.
Many years ago I read an article on Moby Dick running the Press On Regardless rally in the UP, and it talked about how much the QT helped it traverse the crappy conditions. Since the, I've thought it be fun to keep some form of slip capable t-case in it.
TrailTamer
🤣🖕🏻
I love my Tru-Trac. It’ll be sweet if there’s an AWD t-case with Tru-Trac based, or Torsen, in its center differential.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
On the 249 I don't actually know. My hunch is it has the standard "narrow" chain, and i'm pretty sure it has a 27 spline rear output, but I don't have info to back that up because I have a bit less experience with ZJs than I do WJs.
Sounds like another Arduino project.
Give me a year of spare time and I'll figure out the most basic concepts hahaha
. Yeah it's something I don't have any specific plans for, but the concept is trick. Similar to modern AWD vehicles that constantly drive the driveshafts, but have electronic clutches on the input to the rear diff to engage/disengage on demand
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
You can put this in an LT230..
Ashcroft Automatic Torque Biasing AATB - Rover
The Ashcroft Automatic Torque Biasing Limited Slip Differential The key features are: - Fully automatic, needs no driver input Totally transparent on road, i.e, no unwanted adverse effects Only comes into play when one wheel looses traction, i.e, a difference in wheel speed Enhances...
ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk
Pablo
Well-known member
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- Nov 8, 2021
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I hope mine does one day... right now it just consumes massive amounts of money and time.
Speaking of which, time to go back out in the heat and fight some battles with the beast.
350TacoZilla
Well-known member
I think you are forgetting one. I don't know much about it other than what I have come across online but for awhile I was thinking about grabbing one to play around with.
NV126 out of the buick rainier, saab 9-7x, oldsmobile bravada and maybe isuzu ascender ( I can't remember if they came in AWD or just the 4WD setup). Basically all built on the trailblazer\envoy chassis but funny enough those two didn't get the AWD case from what I have seen. 27 spline input so should be common to the 1\2 ton transmission choices, not sure if GM did the dumbass stuff like making the bolt pattern different than all the rest of theor stuff like the S10 5 bolt transfercases or not. Also not sure if they were only available in the L6 powered models or if they came behind the 5.3 also. If OP is thinking about a 5.3 that would be a full setup you could grab for the aluminum block V8 and awd case. I'm betting the buicks and saabs don't hold value any better than the chevy & GMC twins so might luck into a driving donor for decent deal, though I'm guessing they are kinda rare to find around.
arse_sidewards
Contrary to everything
- Joined
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At bottom dollar price points it's all the same, based on miles and condition.
But the Buicks and the Saabs are much harder to find clapped out like that because they sold so few of them and those they did sell got sold to people who were willing to pay a stupid premium for a badge or a couple exclusive features and those people tended to not drive them into the ground as quickly.
Skinny
Well-known member
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- Feb 28, 2023
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I'm building a V8 S10 which will be a 4L60 to NP242 using a Novak super slim adapter. My tcase from a V8 WJ. It is pretty beefy but does have a 3 pinion planetary which I doubt my TBI 350 will break.
I did a SYE and had to get a 32 spline 1350 CV yoke which Tom Woods had.
242 has a lot of support in general, easy to adapt to, and has a simple stand alone shift assembly which also bought from Novak.
I have a 99-04 Super Duty front axle that I cut down. I think the pinion will line up pretty good with the tcase output now that I cut like 7-8" out of it.
I did a SYE and had to get a 32 spline 1350 CV yoke which Tom Woods had.
242 has a lot of support in general, easy to adapt to, and has a simple stand alone shift assembly which also bought from Novak.
I have a 99-04 Super Duty front axle that I cut down. I think the pinion will line up pretty good with the tcase output now that I cut like 7-8" out of it.
Attachments
That's what I bought.You can put this in an LT230..
Ashcroft Automatic Torque Biasing AATB - Rover
The Ashcroft Automatic Torque Biasing Limited Slip Differential The key features are: - Fully automatic, needs no driver input Totally transparent on road, i.e, no unwanted adverse effects Only comes into play when one wheel looses traction, i.e, a difference in wheel speed Enhances...
tsomctl
Active member
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It won't bolt to a Chevy Transmission without a custom fabbed adapter, but the JF3A transfer case in modern Toyota Sequoias have a Torsen center diff. Basically the same TC as what's in a 200 series LC, which with a diesel puts out over 450 lb/ft torque.
Modern 4Runners have a weaker version, too.
Modern 4Runners have a weaker version, too.
Last edited:
Weasel
Red Skull Member
I'm planning on running a NP242 in my racer grand with a spooled rear end, seems like allowing some center diff slip will help the drivetrain a bit while running in 4 wheel and racing.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Alright that is a pretty cool transfer case, thanks for bringing up a lesser known model. I'm going to dive a little deeper, but this video from Weber Auto has great visuals on the Torsen diff and how it's all packaged.
Vid starts half way through, the first half is a standard case with no center diff
While I do like the NP242, I'd be a little wary of relying on them in a racing application due to that 2/4wd shift sleeve tooth rounding issue. While it's not super common, it might rear its ugly head more frequently in that kind of application
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
I don’t speak Toyota, and the references I can find are slim. What years, models, engines are they behind? Is there one that’s the holy grail?
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
Did some searching on JF3A, found that there's a swap between sequoia and tundra with minimal effort. Talks a bit about wiring up the transfer case controller.
www.tundratalk.net
Looking at car-part.com I see the 5.7 version interchanges from at least 2008-2017. Not many cheap cases, most are up around $1000-1500. From what I can tell it's a 22-spline input using the AB60F transmission.
The smaller engine sequoia doesn't seem to interchange. Not sure if there's differences beyond the input shaft diameter.
Not sure if this 22-spline is the common sizing, but someone had made an 23 to 22 spline adapter. I'd guess for a bigger GM trans, a spud shaft like this from 32-spline to 22-spline would be necessary.
www.tacomaworld.com
In comparing the L230 vs JF3A swap potential, it seems the JF3A would likely cost escalate quickly.
The LT230 can be found for < $500. Not sure if that's just a core or you could do some basic cleanup and run. The adapter would be another $1200-$1500 depending on 4L80E or 6L80E. To make it more comparable to JF3A you would have to buy the torsen diff, but that could be installed down the road.
The JF3A seems to be more expensive on average looking at prices on car-part. Figure in needing to make a custom spud shaft, and also a custom adapter to link the two and it probably starts get over $3000 pretty quickly.
The NP-242 could be cheapest if you can swap a 32-spline input into it and bolt up/modify the factory 4wd adapter.
AWD conversion completed
I guess this could go into the driveline section, but to me it is definitely a performance mod. Those of you with supercharged trucks and those with stock trucks in cold/snowy climates know how hard it is to get any traction in 2WD on take-off. I have an S/C truck in Canada, so I find that most...
Looking at car-part.com I see the 5.7 version interchanges from at least 2008-2017. Not many cheap cases, most are up around $1000-1500. From what I can tell it's a 22-spline input using the AB60F transmission.
The smaller engine sequoia doesn't seem to interchange. Not sure if there's differences beyond the input shaft diameter.
Not sure if this 22-spline is the common sizing, but someone had made an 23 to 22 spline adapter. I'd guess for a bigger GM trans, a spud shaft like this from 32-spline to 22-spline would be necessary.
22 to 23 spline crawlbox adapter/coupling for Manual trans to 4.0L Marlin Crawler Tacobox
UPDATED 10-13-22 If that ain't a beautiful damn piece of machined steel, I don't know what is. [ATTACH] If you want to put a 23 spline marlin or...
www.tacomaworld.com
In comparing the L230 vs JF3A swap potential, it seems the JF3A would likely cost escalate quickly.
The LT230 can be found for < $500. Not sure if that's just a core or you could do some basic cleanup and run. The adapter would be another $1200-$1500 depending on 4L80E or 6L80E. To make it more comparable to JF3A you would have to buy the torsen diff, but that could be installed down the road.
The JF3A seems to be more expensive on average looking at prices on car-part. Figure in needing to make a custom spud shaft, and also a custom adapter to link the two and it probably starts get over $3000 pretty quickly.
The NP-242 could be cheapest if you can swap a 32-spline input into it and bolt up/modify the factory 4wd adapter.
tsomctl
Active member
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Pretty sure any Sequoia with the 5.7 is going to have that transfer case. Couple of years ago, they were $500, price has obviously gone up. Going off memory, I don't think it's a 22 spline input. If you're going off the Tacoma World, he's dealing with a Tacoma or 4Runner, (4 pinion planetary). Toyota likes to give the same name to different transmissions in different vehicles.
I've done some arm chair FEA by looking at the bearing and seal sizes. I'm pretty sure the JF3A is stronger, but LT230 is going to be more rugged with gears instead of chain.
I've done some arm chair FEA by looking at the bearing and seal sizes. I'm pretty sure the JF3A is stronger, but LT230 is going to be more rugged with gears instead of chain.
JohnnyJ
Low Range Drifter
I was hoping Toyota 22-spline was the same across the board. I got 22-spline looking up the output in a parts manual. I wouldn't put money on my method being correct.
Kinda like US-based trannies that use 23, 27, 31, 32 splines. Other than stickout, I've generally found if you match spline count it will slip together.
Kinda like US-based trannies that use 23, 27, 31, 32 splines. Other than stickout, I've generally found if you match spline count it will slip together.
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
271
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
271
I believe that one doesn't have an AWD option, just 4wd
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
total newb
senior jerk ass
If you put in 4wdn all the wheels drive.....duh!
Ghetto Fab.
No idea what I'm doing
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Bringing this back from the dead, it looks like a NP242 out of a WJ has 32spline outputs front and rear? Rear might be a slip yoke though?
If you were building a fun buggy, mid engine, so the t-case is flipped around, how well do you think the front output would hold up to rear end abuse? Thinking lighter weight V6 so not tons of horse torques in a sub 4k lbs car.
If you were building a fun buggy, mid engine, so the t-case is flipped around, how well do you think the front output would hold up to rear end abuse? Thinking lighter weight V6 so not tons of horse torques in a sub 4k lbs car.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the AWD portion a viscous coupler design? I’d prefer the open differential design like the LT230 or BW4494
Durango and Liberty too. Some outputs are wet vs dry; either way is slip.
Open diff afaik.
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
Yep the WJ's 242HD has 32 spline outputs, slip yoke rear. I believe Tom Woods has a 242HD-specific SYE now. I posted a bit about it in post #17, but not all the details. I don't think I'd have confidence to use its front chain driven output as a rear output. Not due to the chain though, due to the shift collar that can start slipping and rounding out on them.
The viscous coupler was in the ZJ's NP249. The WJs AWD option got the NP247 got a progressive coupler driven by pressurized oil. But the NP242 is just an open differential, that can be locked via the shift mode collar
The viscous coupler was in the ZJ's NP249. The WJs AWD option got the NP247 got a progressive coupler driven by pressurized oil. But the NP242 is just an open differential, that can be locked via the shift mode collar
Ghetto Fab.
No idea what I'm doing
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Are there any lightweight AWD case options with less low range gearing? Something more like 2-1 would work better, but an NP203 is a heavy bitch. I don't think I'd be hung up on having a viscous coupler or any of that nonsense. Since I'd flip the case around the viscous coupler would be impacting the rear, not the front, and I'm just looking to have fun in the desert or sand dunes. I would need to be able to lock it in 4wd though.
total newb
senior jerk ass
Nope.
All chain and planetary cases are 2.6-2.7:1.
All chain and planetary cases are 2.6-2.7:1.