Gravy
Red Skull Member
Pay someone good from the start. It's more incentive not to quit.
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- Thread starter clodhopper
- Start date
Pay someone good from the start. It's more incentive not to quit.
Gtrplyr78
Nuttin’
Agreed.
That incremental increases statement reeks of cheap ass employer. Dragging a carrot and all that comes to mind.
Wonder if Tiha as a newcomer to his company would stick around for mediocre wage and small raises, probably not.
clodhopper
Get off my lawn, punk!
Are you guys even responsible to source, hire and retain employees? Maybe, but your comments make you sound like a "i hate management but dont really know what they do" kinda guy.
Everyone doesnt show up with teh same drive or interest for a job. Some jobs arent for everyone. We arent a communist country (yet) so you are free to try a job and see if you like it, or skip a job and find one that fits you better. I can throw money at potential hires and still have them walk away cause they didnt like the job. I can throw money at potential hires and get alot to start immediately, but never really had interest in the position, just liked the pay rate and then I end up a turnover mill. Tons of wasted dollars onboarding people who wont stick. Hiring shitbags isnt an obligation (again, not yet anyway). There is a significant overhead cost to process a new hire and intiate training. And I certainly dont need to deal with job jumpers just looking for another dime/hr.
Tiha
Red Skull Member
Every new hire is well aware of the earning potential here. If they are not willing to put some time and effort into improving themselves and earning it then we don't want them.
Let McDonalds grow them up..
CarterKraft
Red Skull Member
We have HEAVY intern programs from various sources, local high schools, technical schools, military.
They get to work in the job for a period then may/not get offered a full time position.
www.linkedin.com
Even hosted a mock signing day (seems weird but maybe not)
They get to work in the job for a period then may/not get offered a full time position.
HOLT CAT on LinkedIn: #nationalinternshipmonth #holtcat #internship #technicians
It's #NationalInternshipMonth and our teams have positions available for those who want to pursue trade school certifications! Join #HOLTCAT and help shape…
Even hosted a mock signing day (seems weird but maybe not)
HOLT CAT Taps Into High School Pipeline
HOLT CAT has partnered with Bridgeport High School, allowing students Tate McClellan and Paul Naquin to participate in an internship program. This initiative offers practical experience in automotive equipment skills and includes benefits like tuition reimbursement for trade or tech school.
www.holtcat.com
Ghetto Fab.
No idea what I'm doing
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Change is inevitable, and I think things are hard now because we are in a transitional phase. A lot of threads on here remind me of this. This thread, the pro hamas protesters vs DPS, and the thread on engine machine shops.
I feel like my dad's generation was one of the last to work at the same company for a lifetime, then retire with the company retirement. I believe he still has medical benefits from his job even.
Things changed and I don't know if employers or employees stopped caring, but eventually the employment model moved from long term employment to shorter term and employees jumping ship to get better pay, benefits, or move upward. Its been pretty common in my work lifetime that you have to change jobs every 3-4yrs to keep pace. Employers no longer offer a pension, instead employees have some form of 401k that they manage.
When I was growing up, if you didn't go to college, you might as well be a drug addict living on the streets. You just weren't going to make it. I did some college buy never finished. It took me awhile to realize I didn't need a degree to live decently. I still have issue with that today.
There is always unrest in colleges. Young kids are always trying to fight the "Man" in some form. However, the cost of college and the degrees they pump out has been questionable for some time. Obviously we will always need doctors and scientists, but not everyone can be a software engineer, and there isn't much need for generic liberal arts degrees.
At the same time the economy is changing, the pendulum has swung too far one way. Time to bring some of that outsourcing back and fix things at home. Blue collar jobs are in demand, almost as much as that google software job was 15yrs ago. Our perceptions are changing on what a good job is and the school system will need to catch up. I don't foresee large universities changing, but I do see a lot of tech schools starting. It would also be nice to see a shift in the school system to more like something that europe does where some students get on a track to college, and other on a track to tech schools. I think employers will need to be heavily involved and will need to be more committed to their employees to retain them. Maybe then the employees will be less likely to move on.
I think that idea of a signing for the CAT program is great. May seem dumb to us, but its a step in breaking the blue coller stigma this country has had and hopefully improving employer-employee relationships.
Sorry for wall-o-text.
I feel like my dad's generation was one of the last to work at the same company for a lifetime, then retire with the company retirement. I believe he still has medical benefits from his job even.
Things changed and I don't know if employers or employees stopped caring, but eventually the employment model moved from long term employment to shorter term and employees jumping ship to get better pay, benefits, or move upward. Its been pretty common in my work lifetime that you have to change jobs every 3-4yrs to keep pace. Employers no longer offer a pension, instead employees have some form of 401k that they manage.
When I was growing up, if you didn't go to college, you might as well be a drug addict living on the streets. You just weren't going to make it. I did some college buy never finished. It took me awhile to realize I didn't need a degree to live decently. I still have issue with that today.
There is always unrest in colleges. Young kids are always trying to fight the "Man" in some form. However, the cost of college and the degrees they pump out has been questionable for some time. Obviously we will always need doctors and scientists, but not everyone can be a software engineer, and there isn't much need for generic liberal arts degrees.
At the same time the economy is changing, the pendulum has swung too far one way. Time to bring some of that outsourcing back and fix things at home. Blue collar jobs are in demand, almost as much as that google software job was 15yrs ago. Our perceptions are changing on what a good job is and the school system will need to catch up. I don't foresee large universities changing, but I do see a lot of tech schools starting. It would also be nice to see a shift in the school system to more like something that europe does where some students get on a track to college, and other on a track to tech schools. I think employers will need to be heavily involved and will need to be more committed to their employees to retain them. Maybe then the employees will be less likely to move on.
I think that idea of a signing for the CAT program is great. May seem dumb to us, but its a step in breaking the blue coller stigma this country has had and hopefully improving employer-employee relationships.
Sorry for wall-o-text.
grumpy356
bordering on illiterate
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Not to go all "grammar nazi”, but when you're slamming the intelligence of your applicants, it somehow becomes relevant, or ironic, or something.... but it's "know-nothing"
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Tiha
Red Skull Member
Bingo, That right there.
Same here, taught I had to have a degree. Got one in Robotics. Did that industry for 4 years and hated every second. Money wasn't all they said it would be either.
Show your kids let them decide. My oldest is turning 30 and he is finally figuring out what he wants to do in life.
grumpy356
bordering on illiterate
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When employers cut pensions it killed it. That, , in conjunction with the realization that the company always meant far more to people like your dad, than your dad meant to the company, and the ad looking to fill your position will be in the paper before your obituary.
Talk to the high school ag teacher. Have them recommend a few and send them your way if you are serious about training.
We use indeed, but our HR guy looks at resumes and calls candidates rather than posting our jobs and wating on an applicant to choose us. It works very well, but our HR dude is a fucking master at his craft.
We pay on the lower end of our counterparts and I rarely have an opening. Our benefits are decent to very good if you make it a career. Hiring is hard, manage better to minimize hiring is our philosophy and it works.
We typically grab people with some type of technical background, apartment maintenance, hotel maintenance, auto maintenance or similar and just train them to do what we need. In the long run, it works better than someone from another plant with experience that was taught bad habits.
We try to promote within unless it's a new area where we don't have any knowledge so our managers know what the line employee is dealing with. We promote based on performance and attitude rather than seniority.
We use indeed, but our HR guy looks at resumes and calls candidates rather than posting our jobs and wating on an applicant to choose us. It works very well, but our HR dude is a fucking master at his craft.
We pay on the lower end of our counterparts and I rarely have an opening. Our benefits are decent to very good if you make it a career. Hiring is hard, manage better to minimize hiring is our philosophy and it works.
We typically grab people with some type of technical background, apartment maintenance, hotel maintenance, auto maintenance or similar and just train them to do what we need. In the long run, it works better than someone from another plant with experience that was taught bad habits.
We try to promote within unless it's a new area where we don't have any knowledge so our managers know what the line employee is dealing with. We promote based on performance and attitude rather than seniority.
Etyler2
Your kind of Asshole
My son is at Cal Poly, Construction Management. He is starting a paid internship in So Cal at $24 / hr., and reimbursement for housing this June.
Will be working on a new water treatment plant under construction.
It’s kind of like hiring a temp for them. The company is hiring like crazy. They came to the job fair at the school, did real interviews, and he received 3 similar offers.
If all goes as planned like it did for his roommate last year, he’s got a $120k job starting after graduation a year or so from now.
Chasing some trade schools, job fairs, high schools, etc. wouldn’t be a waste of time.
Will be working on a new water treatment plant under construction.
It’s kind of like hiring a temp for them. The company is hiring like crazy. They came to the job fair at the school, did real interviews, and he received 3 similar offers.
If all goes as planned like it did for his roommate last year, he’s got a $120k job starting after graduation a year or so from now.
Chasing some trade schools, job fairs, high schools, etc. wouldn’t be a waste of time.
Etyler2
Your kind of Asshole
For sure. I’ve changed jobs every 2-3 years in the last 10 just to get raises.
“Here’s a dollar, thanks for taking on 15 other tasks that people that work here can’t do.”
I’m now making 40% more than I did 7 years ago.
Kurtastrophe
New member
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We were looking for a couple of engineering techs, and I went to job fairs at the local tech school and university, advertised on Linkedin. etc,...
There are (hopefully) plenty of capable employees over the age of 22 that have been out in the workforce for a couple years. I think reaching out to them is not easy. Overall, we found two inside the company, and hired two recent 4 yr grads after a long search. I'm pretty certain two out of the four will work out; one of the grads, and the older internal guy.
There are (hopefully) plenty of capable employees over the age of 22 that have been out in the workforce for a couple years. I think reaching out to them is not easy. Overall, we found two inside the company, and hired two recent 4 yr grads after a long search. I'm pretty certain two out of the four will work out; one of the grads, and the older internal guy.
DRTDEVL
Mothfukle
Hang on to your hat... the trucking world is on its head right now. Warehouses for rent everywhere. Temp agencies with people lined up hoping to make money that day. People still being duped into trucking school looking for work.
The world is changing... and the economy is falsely strong. Almost every driver who has left our company this past year is begging for their old position back.
Heck, even Heartland Express posted another losing quarter, and they are cash-based, not running on credit.
We are holding on strong, but a few of our customers are on the ropes. That doesn't bode well for anyone's future, but at least we're on solid ground for now.
Gravy
Red Skull Member
True. I haven't worn them shoes.
The person everyone really wants (deep down) is 28-30 year old with experience and ethic. Someone to do the bitch work.
So what's the harm in good pay up front if they are going to quit anyway
Labor job at 25 hr (or) sit on your ass for 20 hr.
DRTDEVL
Mothfukle
What's the cost per hire? An employer needs to factor this expense into his labor costs, and must recoup this during the average employee's tenure. If it costs $8k to hire someone, but the average guy only lasts until the first payday, then they aren't going to be able to pay very much. If the average person sticks around a couple years, the employer can spread this average expense out over 104 weeks, and the employee's hire expense would only be about $77/week.
Tiha
Red Skull Member
And some people do that. Amazon for one was paying far more than anyone. My daughter went to work there. 3 months she was burnt out. 6 months and she tired for get written up for not handling enough packaged during her shift.
Also on the flip side, if we start them at top dollar, then where do they go? No motivation to do better.
Gee you are doing a great job, here is a thumbs up for you.
Or would you rather, .50 an hour.
And I will admit we are old school and behind the times on almost everything.
We want to see someone come in, train them and if they want to do sales or management later, great. Love to promote from with in. But you gotta show us you are willing to work for what you want. Not just complain until you get it.
Gtrplyr78
Nuttin’
They are not looking for that Gravy, exploit labor on the cheap is what is on the table.
Revolving door keeps swinging...
Anyone that knows their worth does not waste time on wishy washy outfits - why they are perpetually hiring.
As to their question, yes I have managed in retail/warehousing/logistics. To retain talent it costs $.
Everything other than that is verbal diarrhea...
Tiha
Red Skull Member
Friend of mine went to work for Trans am trucking.
During his road test the trainer told him. Hey we are only counting on you being here and moving freight for us for 6 months. That is what we budget.
You leave before that we lose money. You stay longer, then great.
DRTDEVL
Mothfukle
Yeah, but TransAm is the worst of the worst. They still only pay their OTR guys 32 CPM, while luring them in with promises of big wages on dedicated accounts. When they get to orientation they are told they can't even apply for a dedicated position until they have been there 90 days first, then only if there is an opening.
32 cpm x 1800 miles = $576 gross pay per week. That's why they lose them so fast, they are making less than $30k their first year.
Lots of companies lure people with false promises. We had a company 40 minutes down the road lure one of our good ones away last year... for 3 weeks. He came running back, tail tucked and said they are FOS. Another guy left to go team driving with his brother last month with an infamous outfit out of Chattanooga. He got out of the truck on Saturday, then called us the following Friday asking if he could come back. He was out of the truck for 12 days (had to re-do pre-employment drug screening).
Gravy
Red Skull Member
It's a good conversation.
For example, someone making good money won't stay because they aren't receiving raises? Where are they going go? Walk out to another job for less.
My argument is mostly the pay gap between labor intensive jobs and A/C sitting down jobs.
Preheating metal to 600 degrees and welding in 110 degree day for 23-24 an hour or roofing houses in July for 25 an hour.
Uber, door dash, fast food, ect ect for 20 an hour. Hard to justify 5 dollors more.
I think people are realizing the juice isn't worth the squeeze and finding other ways.
Tiha
Red Skull Member
And this is exactly what we were talking about in the machine shop thread. Or whatever that thread title was LOL
It can be hard to compare different companies, For us top dollar, not only are they hauling hazmat, that also means random drug tests, back ground checks. Age restrictions are still 21.
Not worth the hassle to a lot of people.
So who can we compare to? Only thing close locally are gas haulers and they are paid by the load/delivery.
totally agree with you. my daughter working for Amazon quit, got her CNA she is now working for 6 dollars and hour less than amazon but she loves her job.
To her the environment made it worth taking less money. Plus now she is starting class to advance her schooling, paid for by her employer.
Hospitals are desperate for nurses but starting pay is not great like it was during covid.
Gravy
Red Skull Member
Yea, threads here usually start off good but turn into old man bitching by page 3-4.
I was not factoring in the environment or people. Yes, this has a big effect on employees. I know guys that like a job simply because it's close to home, friends, family, or just enjoyable place to be.
roundhouse
Red Skull Member
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Place I used to work used to include the vacation and health insurance and retirement contributions on their weekly pay check stub , just so they employees knew how much those bennies were costing the companyThey're paying more
If it's like here, all the company's that complain about not finding new guys are the ones paying $15/hr when McDonald's pays $20/hr.
You somewhat need to do a Union style advertisement. $25/hr+$20 in benefits. It's astonishing how many people think they need to be paid $90/hr when the company charges $100/hr. They don't have a clue on business, and fail to realize their pay is a small portion to the cost of hiring them.
grumpy356
bordering on illiterate
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They often require it.
I always assumed it was just a matter of time before I’m taxed on the value of the complete package.
roundhouse
Red Skull Member
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The heavy haul trucking company my son drives for hires people with no experience, and trains them ,
They hire out of the nearby community collage CDL programs ,
Inexperienced new hires spend 6 to 9 months with a trainer at half pay of what the drivers get paid .
If any company isn’t willing to
Hire inexperienced people and train them , they have zero room to
Complain that they can’t find employees
If we don’t train the next generation of employees, who will ?
It’s like the guy that was head of IBM and someome found out what they spent on training , and asked “what if we train them and they leave ?”
He replied “what if we DONT train them , and they STAY ?”
roundhouse
Red Skull Member
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Company I work at has had four people leave in the last two years and mention ,( all four were very good employees who could work independently and didn’t need a lot of baby sitting and hand holding etc ), in the resignation letter , a name of another employee , a project manager , as THE reason they quit .
The company spent a ton of money hiring and training these folks to do what we do and then they won’t get rid of the one asshole who keeps causing people to quit .
I won’t work for the guy , I worked on one of his projects and he was such an incompetent ass that once that three day project was finished , I loudly announced I wouldn’t not work on any of his project again.
We’ve also had several people leave because they got job offers for DOUBLE what they were getting paid .
Because the company is good about hiring inexperienced people and training them but after a year or two they never get raises
Or the company will hire a new person and then someone that’s been doing she exact same job at the company for FIVE years learns that the new hire is making more money , and it goes downhill quick when that happens .
ScottRS
Not @Rockstomper today
My kids' high school has a votech or practical or something program, can't remember what it's called, but if you're looking for kids out of high school who are wanting into jobs not college, that'd be a place to start. Potentially a place to partner with if you want a flow.
I made my last two employment moves via LinkedIn, it doesn't sound like you're looking for me, so I'm not sure that's the right place to be, I know the techs at both of the last two places I've been, were not spending much if any time there.
I would second the job post or maybe even job forum here, at a cost of near nothing to get some networking going, could be a good thing.
Colorado does require posting the pay, but there are a lot of workarounds there so like a lot of "helping the poor folk" gestures, it's pretty meaningless at the end of the day. But I will also admit that it helps me weed stuff pretty fast when looking; anywhere seeking a 10+ year experienced degreed pro with a top end salary sub $60k didn't get any more attention.
I made my last two employment moves via LinkedIn, it doesn't sound like you're looking for me, so I'm not sure that's the right place to be, I know the techs at both of the last two places I've been, were not spending much if any time there.
I would second the job post or maybe even job forum here, at a cost of near nothing to get some networking going, could be a good thing.
Colorado does require posting the pay, but there are a lot of workarounds there so like a lot of "helping the poor folk" gestures, it's pretty meaningless at the end of the day. But I will also admit that it helps me weed stuff pretty fast when looking; anywhere seeking a 10+ year experienced degreed pro with a top end salary sub $60k didn't get any more attention.
barrelroll
Red Skull Member
My previous employer just upped their Colorado housing allowance from $450 a month to $1,450 a month. I think they are still having trouble finding people though the commute sucks, they are in Empire.
I do get some facebook ads for jobs. I'm guessing they are focused ads because they are usually something kinda related to what I'm interested in.
Will streaming services do focused job ads? I'm not big on streaming music though this might be a way to get through to the group you are looking to hire if you can pick a location and age range.
I do get some facebook ads for jobs. I'm guessing they are focused ads because they are usually something kinda related to what I'm interested in.
Will streaming services do focused job ads? I'm not big on streaming music though this might be a way to get through to the group you are looking to hire if you can pick a location and age range.
RunningProblem
Red Skull Member
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None of this changes with guys who have 10 years of experience, and it’s why people don’t try new careers frequently. Management doesn’t want to try someone without experience because it’s a waste of their time if the new hire doesn’t like the job. somehow people with more experience are worth the waste of time.
Still, if you’re not actively putting in an extra 30 percent of effort to go find new recruits at college beyond “we send them job openings and expec them to do the work for us” then you’re going to get the same results. Maybe someone should teach part time and use it as a way to recruit people. Otherwise just find the competition and start offering those guys an extra 25% and a work truck.