Adjustable Up-Down/Forward-Back Seat Mounts?

[tribal4krawler]

Making this as a side post to the Team187 4400 Thread - Ken Hale is a good bit shorter than I am at roughly 5'9 ish and he's of course the owner/primary driver of the 187 4400 car but he really wants to have the ability to swap me into the driver seat as needed - I am 6'1 but i have a weird ass torso and sit in a car like i'm 6'3. The car right now is set up for somebody my size so I fit great, we put some hard foam in the driver seat so ken could see but once he's strapped down tight it still compresses and he is barely looking over the steering wheel. If we raise the seat up to where he can see well without the extra foam, i can't sit in the car safely (too close to the roof bars). I'm just curious if anybody's ever seen or thought of a solution where we could semi-quickly move the seat around (we'd need to move it mainly just up and down, but would be nice to be able to also move it back if needed). Right now we have Sparco EVO XL seats with the Sparco side mounts mounted to the floor to tabs welded to the chassis underneath. Thoughts?

 

[ridered3]

Making this as a side post to the Team187 4400 Thread - Ken Hale is a good bit shorter than I am at roughly 5'9 ish and he's of course the owner/primary driver of the 187 4400 car but he really wants to have the ability to swap me into the driver seat as needed - I am 6'1 but i have a weird ass torso and sit in a car like i'm 6'3. The car right now is set up for somebody my size so I fit great, we put some hard foam in the driver seat so ken could see but once he's strapped down tight it still compresses and he is barely looking over the steering wheel. If we raise the seat up to where he can see well without the extra foam, i can't sit in the car safely (too close to the roof bars). I'm just curious if anybody's ever seen or thought of a solution where we could semi-quickly move the seat around (we'd need to move it mainly just up and down, but would be nice to be able to also move it back if needed). Right now we have Sparco EVO XL seats with the Sparco side mounts mounted to the floor to tabs welded to the chassis underneath. Thoughts?

Kartek has some adjustable seat mount options but not sure if they would adjust enough for the height differences.

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[tribal4krawler]

Kartek has some adjustable seat mount options but not sure if they would adjust enough for the height differences.

Seat Mounts - Kartek Off-Road

Seat Mounts for offroad racing in the King of the Hammers, New Zealand Taupo 1000, Dakar Rally, Tatts Finke Desert Race, Score International Baja 500 or Baja 1000, Mint 400, Vegas to Reno, Silk Way Rally, Crandon International, East African Safari Rally, Rallye Aicha des Gazelles, Formula Off...

www.kartek.com

yeah i've looked at those but the chassis unlimited (which are the closest to being semi what we need) don't go up and down. up and down is the critical part, i can make it work from a front/back standpoint. it also needs to be fairly quickly adjustable where a pit guy could hop in, pull some pins or whatever and move it down/up while we're switching seats. it may not really be doable, idk.

 

[ridered3]

yeah i've looked at those but the chassis unlimited (which are the closest to being semi what we need) don't go up and down. up and down is the critical part, i can make it work from a front/back standpoint. it also needs to be fairly quickly adjustable where a pit guy could hop in, pull some pins or whatever and move it down/up while we're switching seats. it may not really be doable, idk.

Understandable there for sure and figured you'd looked at Kartek etc.

 

[ParadisePWoffrd]

Ive thought about this same type thing, as my wife is 5'3 and I am 6ft, so it would be nice to be able to adjust the seats. Having multiple sets of belt mounts or lengths seems ciritcal also. My needs are maybe a little different than racing pit stop though.

My thought has been to take the ChassisUnlimited mounts, but mount them on an angle. As it slides forward it also raises higher. the tabs for the seat could still be such that the seat is at the correct angle vs the slide angle. Would still need to figure out belts, either extra length and adjustable, or multiple sets or belts/mounts.

Could you possibly make the pedal set and wheel adjustable?

What about a separate seat with quick release belts and a subframe built under it? Build the mounts to fit the larger person, and the subframe bolted to the other seat pins into those mounts. The mounts could use pins vs bolts so it was quick removal.

 

[2big bronco]

What about a different base on the drivers and passenger seat... one that fits each of you... swap sides as needed

 

[tribal4krawler]

yeah we've thought of that too, but again its a similar issue where we're having to unbolt shit and then bolt it back together. i really don't want pit guys rushing seat bolts in the heat of the moment on a hot pit and forget to tighten something up and create a real safety issue. IMO, the EASIEST solution is to use some SFI foam that's real high density and wont squish easily. I think if we stacked/glued two 2" sheets together and put velcro above/below, and put the sparco seat pads on top of it, that would work. the downside would be that he wouldn't be as "in" the seat as far as the side bottom bolsters. but this way the seat stays securely bolted, we should be able to finangle the seat belt adjustments to where it can work for either of us, etc. I've also thought about doing the custom SFI seat insert but then we're talking more money, and I have zero experience with that and how much we can manipulate it to get him to the height that we want him to sit at.

 

[ridered3]

Figured it out...put cameras on the rig with a tv in the center of the steering wheel or on top of the dash for when Ken is driving and remove it all when it's your turn to drive. This way you can leave the seats mounted and belts in place and Ken wouldn't need to see over the dash anyway. Added benefit is that you could partner with Hammerking for in-car content during KOH24'.

 

[benw]

What about pivoting mounts for the seat tabs. When it’s back the pivot is flat, then you remove a pin and the mounts pivot forward and up. You only get 2 positions based on the length of your pivot arms but it would be very quick to reposition the seat.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Mount it on rails that let it go from position A to B and cram an OEM scissor or screw jack in there to make it move and position it so that the pit guy just has to reach in with a drill or 1/4 impact.

Or, if you're comfortable about the strength of a normal seat slider base just use one of those mounted at an angle and add a spring pulling on the seat so that it's not a PITA to make it go uphill.

 

[tribal4krawler]

What about pivoting mounts for the seat tabs. When it’s back the pivot is flat, then you remove a pin and the mounts pivot forward and up. You only get 2 positions based on the length of your pivot arms but it would be very quick to reposition the seat.

That’s kind of a cool idea. I’d have to think about how to make that robust enough to handle a high speed crash.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

When I initially saw this thread I wondered about some sort of swinging mount, looks like you guys area already thinking the same thing. Ignore the shape of the brackets and such, just easy shapes to slap the concept together for renderings. Have it ride on shoulder bolts, then figure out some way to conveniently add like two decent diameter pins to lock it in place at whichever position you choose. I would expect the options are either up or down, but really you could do multiple positions in between as well

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Do those Sparco's have a mounting hole for the back of the seat?

The thing I don't like about the swinging mount is that it moves the seat away from whatever is bracing it from behind when the mount is in the upright position. A high force rear impact to the chassis is probably a least likely scenario but I'd hate to have my seat move backwards mid crash and loosen all the belts in the process.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Do those Sparco's have a mounting hole for the back of the seat?

The thing I don't like about the swinging mount is that it moves the seat away from whatever is bracing it from behind when the mount is in the upright position. A high force rear impact to the chassis is probably a least likely scenario but I'd hate to have my seat move backwards mid crash and loosen all the belts in the process.

I hear ya, but really how different would it be than a standard seat slider in that regard? If the seat does have an upper mounting point, you could put that on a swing as well, just needs to be the same length and angle and it'll all move in unison

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

If the seat does have an upper mounting point, you could put that on a swing as well, just needs to be the same length and angle and it'll all move in unison

Putting seat sliders in a race car is a big giant NOPE in my world.


The third swing point is a really good idea!

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Putting seat sliders in a race car is a big giant NOPE in my world.


The third swing point is a really good idea!

I get the hesitation, but what is the lesser of the two evils if you have two completely different sized people potentially driving a race rig? Having a fixed seat where one of the drivers doesn't fit in it properly due to those compromises, or an (intentionally overkill) adjustable seat mount?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I get the hesitation, but what is the lesser of the two evils if you have two completely different sized people potentially driving a race rig? Having a fixed seat where one of the drivers doesn't fit in it properly due to those compromises, or an (intentionally overkill) adjustable seat mount?

Up until you showed me the seat swing idea there wasn't a quick safe solution to their dilemma.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Up until you showed me the seat swing idea there wasn't a quick safe solution to their dilemma.

I definitely agree that in the ideal world a rigid mount will always be the most favorable, but I think there's a good possibility these guys can have their cake and eat it too, without compromising too much on safety

 

[tribal4krawler]

When I initially saw this thread I wondered about some sort of swinging mount, looks like you guys area already thinking the same thing. Ignore the shape of the brackets and such, just easy shapes to slap the concept together for renderings. Have it ride on shoulder bolts, then figure out some way to conveniently add like two decent diameter pins to lock it in place at whichever position you choose. I would expect the options are either up or down, but really you could do multiple positions in between as well

this is fawking rad. I could see how this could work for us. I’d have to figure out how to get it to lock, I’d probably put the locking t handles or whatever on the front of the seat mount I’d still have some concerns about making damn sure the mount couldn’t collapse back from the upright position in a crash, as Slowpoke mentioned it would loosen the belts and potentially cause injury.

 

[benw]

Instead of just swinging 90 degrees, make it swing like 110+ so your forward position is over center and lands on a fixed stop. Gravity helps get the seat in position and you have something solid other than the pin taking some of the downforce.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Up until you showed me the seat swing idea there wasn't a quick safe solution to their dilemma.

F track mounted at an angle. If it can hold airline seats with the passengers strapped to them it can hold race car seats with the passenger strapped to the tubes.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

F track mounted at an angle. If it can hold airline seats with the passengers strapped to them it can hold race car seats with the passenger strapped to the tubes.

Seats on a plane are held down and the passengers are strapped in to keep them from flying about the cabin in inclement conditions and are in no way designed to save your ass in the event of a real crash.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Seats on a plane are held down and the passengers are strapped in to keep them from flying about the cabin in inclement conditions

In a race car you're strapped to the chassis and the seat just keeps you from sliding backward whereas in an aircraft you are strapped to the seat which is locked into the track. Race car seat has two tracks for one person. Aircraft seat has two tracks for two people or three people. Race car is maybe 6" above the track. Aircraft seat is 18" or so. Aircraft seat track is also rate to 16G.

Double up on the "seat side" portion of the hardware if you're worried about it.

 

[gt1guy]

Exactly how much up/down and fore/aft movement do you need?

In endurance racing each driver will have their own seat insert. Can swap it out in seconds. This is nothing new.

Since you're the bigger fella, set the seat for you and have the smaller fella make an insert. The ONLY thing that needs to be adjusted after the insert gets tossed in is the belts.

Don't mount you damn seat to some half ass swing set. Everything being suggested so far will increase seat movement in a crash. That is the opposite of what you want. Belts will get loose and you become dead. You want your seat mounts as short/small and stout as possible. Look how short the mounting tabs are that come on racing seats........there's a reason for that.

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[arse_sidewards]

Well if you're going down the insert route you should just glue some phone books to the ass of his racing suit.

 

[gt1guy]

Well if you're going down the insert route you should just glue some phone books to the ass of his racing suit.

They still make phone books?

 

[cdemart2]

without seeing what you have now its hard to determine what you need. also this site is mostly rec guys with suspension seats that mount completely different than shell seats in a race car. all those adjustable mounts on kartek are for suspension seats in a sand car and wont do you any good. a lot of desert teams with multiple drivers have chassis brackets with multiple slotted holes for different seats/driver positions. this is probably your best bet.

which brackets are you using now? I have cheap universal side mount brackets and wish I had went with the sparco ones. they have two different brackets. one style has much more adjustment.

you both may need different seats too. I went with the Evo L because at 5'10" and 34" waist, I'm right on the size break between the QRT and the L. you might need the XL where the other 5'9" driver might need the regular QRT.