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9mm Major Reloading Questions

xr-nut

GROUP W BENCH
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May 19, 2020
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BFK. Bum Fuck Kansas
I recently got in to uspsa matches. Love it. Bought a gun way better than my ability. It is a finicky bitch and will run on box store ammo but it wants major power factor ammo. it says it in the literature and everyone I've talked with about the gun say the same. So, in an effort to not have to buy .80 cent plus per round ammo I want to load my own. I have a single stage lee, a couple scale options, the primer holder/feeder, a 9mm die set and a case tumbler.

I poked around the interweb for some load recommendations. I found a thread on brianenos specifically about 9 major using 124 grain bullets and WAC powder. That combo mixed up correct in the case puts the power factor in the 170 range.(165 is required for uspsa major scoring and what this gun is seeking) See the doc below with the recipes I stole from there, first pic.

Everyone on the web and few here have commented on the CZ barrel having the rifling contact the chamber. it does. So not any bullet will run in this gun. they just will not go to full battery, the projectile hits the rifling and stops it from loading. the option is there to ream the barrel some to get better/more forgiveness in the OAL. In the second pic you can see the trial rounds I loaded to check on the OAL and it fitting in the barrel. 9mm can have an oal of 1.160. That will just not go in this gun.(with this projectile shape) So I settled on 1.130, it fits in the barrel and just so happens there was a recipe on the enos forum that matched that oal. Seemed like a reasonable load at least compared to the rest of them in regards to powder load.

Here is the recipe I tried. 124grain coated lead bullet, 1.130 oal, 6.2gr of WAC. It is the 10th recipe down the list. I did my best to load them with the little knowledge I found reading and watching videos. Everything seemed to be good. This morning I tried the first batch of 9 in my gun. It fired the first round, tried to chamber the next. Cleared that one and the it picked up the next round(or at least it looked like it did). Turns out it didnt chamber it fully and blew the primer out. :homer: you can see in one of the pics where the case expanded from not being fully seated. In the third and fourth pics you can see a unloaded case fully seated vs one of the trial loads not being seated.

I had experimented with different recoil springs in an effort to run factory ammo. I had left the 8# spring it after the last try and forgot about it. So with that new knowledge, I think I need to put the 11 or 13# spring that came with the gun back in and give the reloads another try.

Any tips or tricks I need to know about heading forward? This shouldnt be this difficult. I really want to learn and load my own ammo to run this gun how it was meant to be run. TIA

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I know if I loaded 45's that looked like that. My 1911 would go on strike!

If your OAL is correct. I would start playing with your crimp until a round drops into the barrel.

Also are you crimping at the same time as you seat your bullets? Or are you using a different die to crimp
 
Yes, I ran them thru the crimp die. I can see why you are asking though. Do I need to run the crimper further down, tighten them up?
Yes

Are the CZ's known to have tight chambers ? I'd have someone kiss the chamber by hand with a reamer, just a habit that has served me well.

FWIW, I hand prime everything
 
back off your seating stem. And start bumping your die down 1/4 turn until your fingernail wont hang up on the case mouth. Then run the seating stem back down till it hits the bullet.

What bullets are you running?
 
I know if I loaded 45's that looked like that. My 1911 would go on strike!

If your OAL is correct. I would start playing with your crimp until a round drops into the barrel.

Also are you crimping at the same time as you seat your bullets? Or are you using a different die to crimp
It is a different die. there are 4 of them in the 9mm flavor for the lee press. first one to resize and boot the primer. second plant new primer and swells the mouth, plus drop in powder. third seats the bullet. fourth is the crimp. Im curious if that will help them in the barrel. Will try some tonight. I suppose then if that were the cause, I could use a different oal possibly.
Yes

Are the CZ's known to have tight chambers ? I'd have someone kiss the chamber by hand with a reamer, just a habit that has served me well.

FWIW, I hand prime everything
Notoriously tight chambers. When I got the gun I posted on here about race guns and matches, also about that cheap ammo I bought to run through it. I was scolded rather quickly on that. :laughing: Well now that I have put about 4k through it all factory ammo and figuring out which of that it tolerate. I picked up 1k rounds of fiochi recently and it jammed up on me twice at the october uspsa match. looking at the rounds side by side with the federal I had been using there is a marked difference in the bullet shape. the federals drop in easy and fall back out. the shoulder on the fiochi required a push to seat and then wouldn't come back out. I likely need to send my barrel to cajun gun works and have them ream it.
 
I think I understand what you are saying to do, what will that accomplish?
That would be how to adjust if you were using a normal 2 die set. Wich you dont have, so forget about those adjustments.

If your OAL is correct then your issue will be with your crimp. Just start giving your crimp die about a 1/4 turn. The try it in your barrel, then give it another 1/4.

Every issue I have had with reloading for semi auto's had been OAL or the crimp.

I have bought alot of bullets from this guy Summers Enterprises – Summers Enterprises
 
It is a different die. there are 4 of them in the 9mm flavor for the lee press. first one to resize and boot the primer. second plant new primer and swells the mouth, plus drop in powder. third seats the bullet. fourth is the crimp. Im curious if that will help them in the barrel. Will try some tonight. I suppose then if that were the cause, I could use a different oal possibly.

Notoriously tight chambers. When I got the gun I posted on here about race guns and matches, also about that cheap ammo I bought to run through it. I was scolded rather quickly on that. :laughing: Well now that I have put about 4k through it all factory ammo and figuring out which of that it tolerate. I picked up 1k rounds of fiochi recently and it jammed up on me twice at the october uspsa match. looking at the rounds side by side with the federal I had been using there is a marked difference in the bullet shape. the federals drop in easy and fall back out. the shoulder on the fiochi required a push to seat and then wouldn't come back out. I likely need to send my barrel to cajun gun works and have them ream it.
Got to be someone close to you that can hand ream the chamber, I'd start there. Then find an OAL that works consistently but agree your crimp doesn't look tight enough
Those coated bullets are notorious for needing a slightly tighter crimp, be careful when loading major as it can change your pressures.
 
That would be how to adjust if you were using a normal 2 die set. Wich you dont have, so forget about those adjustments.

If your OAL is correct then your issue will be with your crimp. Just start giving your crimp die about a 1/4 turn. The try it in your barrel, then give it another 1/4.

Every issue I have had with reloading for semi auto's had been OAL or the crimp.

I have bought alot of bullets from this guy Summers Enterprises – Summers Enterprises
I forgot to mention I put all of the ones I loaded in this and they were all loose. By loose I mean they fell in to bottom and freely fell out.

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I would use your barrel the same way, as you are with that round checker . As thats where the ammo's goona end up anyhow. Do they plop into it just as easy?
 
An being a tight chamber on that cz. A guy might chamber a round. Then pull it out an see if you are making contact with the rifling.
 
I would use your barrel the same way, as you are with that round checker . As thats where the ammo's goona end up anyhow. Do they plop into it just as easy?
So I took the advice and ran the crimp die 3/4 turn tighter. My oldest is here tonight and he found measurements to confirm the crimp amount. Case thickness plus bullet thickness then .003" crimp. If that makes any sense.

After crimping them tighter they did fit slightly better in the barrel and I verified full battery with a micrometer against a factory load. With the oe 13# spring in it was time to try them again. Made it thru 5 rounds before it jammed. Pic below. Turns out 2 of the 5 fired spit out the primer.
 

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You have some weird shit going on.

Only time I have had primers remove themselves, was in a rifle that was way overloaded. What's the brass look like?

I have never measured a crimp before. Just always adjusted things until they worked. Pretty sure we are using different styles of crimp dies. But I'm normally set to where I can see a tiny bit of taper and the case mouth isn't hanging off the side.
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About the only time I've experienced blown out primers is when the cartridge doesn't get fully chambered (bolt doesn't go into battery, bolt face not resting firrnly against the head of the case allowing primer to evacuate). Looking at your handloads in your first post I can see a shiny area on the case about where the base of the bullet would be. Is that occurring during the initial resizing/de-capping stage or is it happening during bullet seating? If it's happening during bullet seating something is wrong (bullet is not correct diameter most likely, or not concentric). Additionally, one has to exercise caution during crimping, too much and the case will buckle. How many times have these cases been reloaded? You can wear out pistol brass just like rifle brass, it just takes a LOT more times of reloading. I wore out some .38 spl brass, took years and years of reloading though.
 
I'm still struggling with this. For now I have ordered a new scale to be 100% sure on the load amount. I am going to back it down from 6.2 to 6.0 and give it another shot.(pun intended). The new scale should be here this week and I will get back at it.

Talked with a local open competitor shooting 9 major and he thought that the shorter oal was increasing the pressure too much. This damn cz and its short chamber. I think after the novermber match I will send the barrel off to cajun gun works and have it reamed out for more bullet options.
 
I'm still struggling with this. For now I have ordered a new scale to be 100% sure on the load amount. I am going to back it down from 6.2 to 6.0 and give it another shot.(pun intended). The new scale should be here this week and I will get back at it.

Talked with a local open competitor shooting 9 major and he thought that the shorter oal was increasing the pressure too much. This damn cz and its short chamber. I think after the novermber match I will send the barrel off to cajun gun works and have it reamed out for more bullet options.
my glonk has a real short throat on the chamber too, the cast lead that comes outta my 6 cav lee mold has to be seated so far back that it looks like 9 makarov

I don't dare ream the chamber out though because that thing's barrel is like a mirror inside, it is crazy how good the surface finish is in there...
 
my glonk has a real short throat on the chamber too, the cast lead that comes outta my 6 cav lee mold has to be seated so far back that it looks like 9 makarov

I don't dare ream the chamber out though because that thing's barrel is like a mirror inside, it is crazy how good the surface finish is in there...
I get it. I spent a pile of money on this gun. BUT...... it has to be done. I shot uspsa this last sunday and finally got to talk the go fast guy there wearing a cz shirt. Turns out he works at CZUSA in Kansas city. He was #1 Sunday with the highest hit factor, setting the curve for the rest of us. He shoots a Czeckmate. In other words, out of anyone I could possibly talk to about my gun, this guy knows his shit. :laughing: He is sending me to his gun smith in kc for some throat work. He gave me his recipe for 9mm major loads. He gave me the rest of the tips they put into to his gun to make mine better.

So I think Im on the right track to get it to shooting major and me loading that ammo.

Fwiw, I took the comp off sunday and ran factory ammo. No malfunctions, gun performed fine. I on the other was slow. Fairly accurate but slow.
 
Also I showed him my pics from the primer fiasco and he told me Im trying to get to short an oal with the wac powder. He runs wac and an oal of 1.170 :eek: I was trying to get an oal of 1.130. A LOT less area for the pressure to go.

That has been a good thing about shooting uspsa, everyone there is willing to help newbies.
 
Glad you got to talk to the right people. Easier to get shit solved that way, rather than through a keyboard.

Crimp can affect pressure too
 
And it sure looked like you needed more crimp. It does affect pressure some though
 
I loaded a bunch of rifle and revolver. Pretty simple.

First pistol I loaded for was a 3" 1911. Ended up with a coffee can of ammo that was 50/50 if it would cycle or not. I put that shit in time out for a year or so before I started tinkering with it again. Got the dies set right, and I'm not goona touch them lol
 
I loaded a bunch of rifle and revolver. Pretty simple.

First pistol I loaded for was a 3" 1911. Ended up with a coffee can of ammo that was 50/50 if it would cycle or not. I put that shit in time out for a year or so before I started tinkering with it again. Got the dies set right, and I'm not goona touch them lol
I'm confident I can get it figured out. Now that winter is setting in, I will shoot less and can afford(time) to send my gun off to get it sorted. The chamber reaming will benefit me greatly in that I can play with the oal and fine tune my loads. I'm really kind of excited to get it shipped off and back so I can get to messing with the loading again. :laughing:
 
that guy you talked to that was running the longer ammo. He shooting round nose or swc?
 
Also I showed him my pics from the primer fiasco and he told me Im trying to get to short an oal with the wac powder. He runs wac and an oal of 1.170 :eek: I was trying to get an oal of 1.130. A LOT less area for the pressure to go.

That has been a good thing about shooting uspsa, everyone there is willing to help newbies.


Do you not pass them through a chrono ?
I've loaded 300K plus of 9mm major and never blown a primer. You need a chrono before you get hurt or damage your gun

USPSA is great for that. They have chronos at their matches.
 
that guy you talked to that was running the longer ammo. He shooting round nose or swc?
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this one specifically, said it has a coating that does not gunk up in the compensator. Running this shape bullet AND clear out to 1.170 there is NO way that will chamber in a czeckmate. no way. thats why it needs opened up.
 
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