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96 12 Valve Crank, No Start

Otis

Active member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Member Number
1249
Messages
29
I'm working on my 96 Dodge and trying to get her started up. I installed a new head, head studs, .055 delivery valves, 5x .012 injectors. AFC live with max travel spring, K27 turbo, timing set to 17 degrees... So a lot of variables to sort through.

I cracked the injection lines to bleed them and have fuel at each. I verified valve lash and timing are correct and the shut down solenoid is working. I can't even get it to fire with starting fluid. What else am I missing? Thanks!
 
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Basically all it needs is compression and fuel, if it won't light the ether, you don't have compression. Valve timing is where I'd start, then verify pump timing from there
 
Yeah, that's the frustration. Valves are at.010 intake and .020 exhaust. I double checked the pump timing. It's 17°.
 
Yeah, when the batteries are charged. It's been sitting for a few months, so they're not exactly factory fresh. I charge em back up between attempts, and it spins normally.

I'm going to open up the AFC housing to make sure I didn't put the foot back in backwards or something dumb like that...
 
Push whats? I thought those leftover parts were fancy chopsticks.


They're in and seated in the tappets.
 
Projectjunkie said:
Basically all it needs is compression and fuel, if it won't light the ether, you don't have compression. Valve timing is where I'd start, then verify pump timing from there
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Like he said, if it won't fire on ether you probably don't have enough compression, I wouldn't go digging too deep into the fuel system until you figure out what's going on mechanically causing low compression.
 
Wheelerfreak said:
Fuel shut off solenoid? But if you're getting fuel when you bleed it probably not, but who knows.
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he said he checked it and it works. he also said he cant get it to start with starting fluid.

p.s.can starting fluid start a diesel? i dont know tbh
 
Compression test failed...
200
160
180
210
220
220

I'm not too happy about pulling the head. I bought it complete, machined, valves, springs, seals, and o-rings installed. I assumed they lapped the valves?

The truck ran great until I started the upgrades..
 
Like Projectjunkie said, I'd make sure your cam and pump are aligned correctly first, being a tooth off could cause the low compression.
 
bunk said:
Before yarding the head i would loosen all the rockers and do a leak down
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Off to find an adapter for the compression tester. I assume 1 cylinder at a time, each at TDC?
TanTJJim said:
Like Projectjunkie said, I'd make sure your cam and pump are aligned correctly first, being a tooth off could cause the low compression.
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The p-pump is on a tapered shaft. I'll pin time the pump and take it back to factory.
 
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Otis said:
Off to find an adapter for the compression tester. I assume 1 cylinder at a time, each at TDC?

The p-pump is on a tapered shaft. I'll pin time the pump and take it back to factory.
Click to expand...

Cam timing is more likely to be the problem here, I'd double check that as well.
 
I'm not sure how that'd be off? I didn't touch the bottom end or pull the cam.
 
Otis said:
I'm not sure how that'd be off? I didn't touch the bottom end or pull the cam.
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well something has to be off, genius!

wnana sell it to me? i think I can fit an engine crate somewhere between all the junk laying around :flipoff2:
 
Otis said:
I'm not sure how that'd be off? I didn't touch the bottom end or pull the cam.
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Didn't know that, yeah can timing should be good then, sounds like leakdown time.
 
Did you pull the injection pump gear off? Or install delivery valves without pulling the gear or anything? Timing can't be off if it was running before and you just pulled the head.

You put all the governor springs back in and didn't miss a washer or anything? No start after IP mods is almost always something missed in the IP. Go back through and verify you put it together correctly.
 
I did the 3k governor springs around 15 years ago. :) However, I did bump the timing to 17° while I was waiting the 8 weeks for the head to come in... I double checked it and it is still at 17.

I did the leak down test this morning and the heads coming back off. There's so much air flowing it's hard to tell what's the worst: intake, exhaust, or crank case pressure. :( Power Driven Diesel tech support was less than helpful. They stated the valves were lapped "to a point". Guess that means probably not very well? He started getting pretty vague when I tried to narrow him down on what that meant.

What should I check as long as everything is going to be pulled apart anyway? I can see some crank case pressure since I have over 400k on the engine, but blow by was minimal, the cylinder walls still showed cross hatching, and the truck ran well prior to the head job.

Thanks for the help!
 
When the head is off on the table, prop it up upside down so the valves are facing up. Put some dyed water around the valves and see if it drains through to the intake/exhaust runner. If it does, that's your problem, and the head work was done wrong.

Leakdown test was done with the rockers all loose?
 
Yeah, I backed all the rockers off.
 
You didn’t happen to leave a rag in the intake???? Silly question but it happens sometimes.
 
I triple checked everything before I dropped it in for the last time, but anything is possible.

Unfortunately we're leaving for the lake this weekend and there's no time to get this sorted in time. Now I need to transition to planning on a car camping trip instead of the 5th wheel. I'm getting too old to be sleeping on the ground!
 
Yeah, "To a point" makes no sense to me?. He said when it ran it would finish the process. Seems like they either are, or are not...

I'm not sure how to proceed with them?
 
You have to diagnose the problem before you can place blame.

The valves are supposed to rotate when the engine is running, and they'll bed into the valve seats somewhat, so that's probably what he's talking about.

For the compression to be that low across the board, every single valve would have to be fucked up. That seems unlikely to me, but I guess it's possible. Doing the liquid test on the valves will help tell you what's wrong, if the problem is in the head itself.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
You have to diagnose the problem before you can place blame.
....
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GLTHFJ60 said:
For the compression to be that low across the board, every single valve would have to be fucked up. That seems unlikely to me, but I guess it's possible. Doing the liquid test on the valves will help tell you what's wrong, if the problem is in the head itself.
Click to expand...
But it ought to pass the water test, correct?
 
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