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80% ban?

animator said:
Agree that it’s not going to do shit to stop crime. I don’t have the factual ability to refute the claims made by that graph, but being that it’s from the gov with a clear agenda, I’m a bit more than slightly skeptical.
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Biggest “gun crime” thing I’ve heard recently from LEO’s are “Glock switches” being used by gang members.

But unregistered machine guns are already illegal…
Killing people is already illegal…
Drug trafficking is already illegal…

So that’s a hard one to legislate :laughing:
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
Biggest “gun crime” thing I’ve heard recently from LEO’s are “Glock switches” being used by gang members.

But unregistered machine guns are already illegal…
Killing people is already illegal…
Drug trafficking is already illegal…

So that’s a hard one to legislate :laughing:
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Maybe we could regulate what size magazine you can buy, that'll stop them!

The Glock switches are actually being used in crimes at least, I have seen very few cases of 80% anything being used in a crime around here, excluding the cases where it's decided that building one is the crime.
 
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animator said:
Agree that it’s not going to do shit to stop crime. I don’t have the factual ability to refute the claims made by that graph, but being that it’s from the gov with a clear agenda, I’m a bit more than slightly skeptical.
Click to expand...
I dont know if it will stop anything. I do know a friend of mine is a local LEO on a task force and more than half the guns theyre finding are "ghost" guns made out of 80% or 3d printed recievers and parts kits. He said the majority are "glocks" but theyre finding ARs as well. Apparently one of the shitbags had a printer running and was finishing 80s and selling them.
 
TrikeKid said:
Maybe we could regulate what size magazine you can buy, that'll stop them!

The Glock switches are actually being used in crimes at least, I have seen very few cases of 80% anything being used in a crime, excluding the cases where it's decided that building one is the crime.
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The NE is getting flooded with them.
 
Stuck said:
I dont know if it will stop anything. I do know a friend of mine is a local LEO on a task force and more than half the guns theyre finding are "ghost" guns made out of 80% or 3d printed recievers and parts kits. He said the majority are "glocks" but theyre finding ARs as well. Apparently one of the shitbags had a printer running and was finishing 80s and selling them.
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And the law is going to do nothing to stop them, a half dozen 3D printed receivers and the 3D printer is paid for even if they have to walk away from it.

Aaron Z
 
I live under a rock

So on the 24th 80% stuff cant be sold anymore? Or owned?
 
Steve300xcw said:
I live under a rock

So on the 24th 80% stuff cant be sold anymore? Or owned?
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This isn't comprehensive, and is just what I can gather from my brief readings up on it thus far.

Can't be sold unless it's serialized and the one serializing it has the appropriate FFL. Any sales afterward are done on a 4473 same as any other firearm.
Can't be in an FFL's possession for greater than 24 hours without getting a serial number applied by the FFL in possession of it. So gunsmiths who do work on a home-built gun now have to serialize them unless they come and go from the shop in the same day.
Can still possess and are not required to serialize, but are required to serialize upon the sale or transfer.


Most 80% suppliers are not going to be getting an FFL just to serialize unfinished parts, and most end users aren't going to deal with FFL transfers on an unfinished firearm, since that was one of the benefits to buying an unfinished gun to begin with, so the market is essentially now closed on 80% options until this clusterfuck of a ruling is challenged in court, and I don't see anything coming from that given our current administration and the lack of anyone in opposition actually doing anything about it.
 
Weasel said:
when's the market going to a 50-60% finished?
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80% is just a term... not necessarily an accurate number. Any partial receiver is essentially an "80"
 
D_JEEPER said:
80% is just a term... not necessarily an accurate number. Any partial receiver is essentially an "80"
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And that's the bitch of it since there's no accurate way to make that determination.

Big daddy gov is saying any receiver that is recognizable as a part intended for a firearm is now a firearm. So if I drill two FCG holes in a piece of billet aluminum that is big enough to become an AR15 lower, and since those holes are specific in size and placement for an AR15 FCG, does that piece of billet now qualify as a firearm requiring a serial number to sell? It's all a bunch of horse shit.
 
animator said:
And that's the bitch of it since there's no accurate way to make that determination.

Big daddy gov is saying any receiver that is recognizable as a part intended for a firearm is now a firearm. So if I drill two FCG holes in a piece of billet aluminum that is big enough to become an AR15 lower, and since those holes are specific in size and placement for an AR15 FCG, does that piece of billet now qualify as a firearm requiring a serial number to sell? It's all a bunch of horse shit.
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Exactly... the gray area is all-encompassing.... by design. They can make it as small or as large as they want in order to make the shoe fit.
 

Per: Policies & FAQ

8.24 ATF 80% LOWER REGULATIONS:

The regulations of 8.24.22 do not affect Venom Defense & Design's 80% Lower Receivers as we do not sell jigs, tooling, or anything related to finishing the lower receiver. Others have had to make major changes. This has caused a lot of false information in wide-spreading rumors and in non-truths posted on websites and in forums all over in hopes of drumming up more sales from customers who do not understand their federal or state laws and these regulations.

Federally, there is no requirement to add a serial number to an 80% lower receiver unless it is sold with a jig; and our company does not produce or sell any tooling or jigs of any kind. - We never have and we never will.

*Please note: state laws can and will supersede federal laws in certain situations.
 
I got sucked into false advertising. Had read a banner that said uppers and barrels were included.

That is not the case.

It is just confusion over the lowers right now.

I personally don't care if it has a serial number or not, but Nobody locally makes them. So it is nice to ship them without paying an FFL.
Kind of fun milling them out as well.
 
DWT said:
For those wondering that link still works. There may or may not be a dozen $35 pieces of forged alloy headed somewhere. :usa:
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Did they actually ship them though? I don't recall this being on their site when I bought mine a while back

Screenshot_20220823-125016.png
 
I've got several coming from thundertactical, so we'll see what shows up.

Got plenty more coming from AK-builder, and I know they're good for it. Got more coming from RTG as well, so maybe I'll have enough to hold me over until this is challenged and hopefully removed.
 
AK-builder has pulled all 80% blanks and flats from their website, but still shipped my last order before the deadline, and I've received it.


RTG appears to still be advertising flats. They haven't shipped my last order before the deadline, but imagine they're a bit behind. They got more of what I wanted in stock, so I'm going to order a few more and see if they ship them now that the deadline has passed.


I just got a shipping notification from thunder tactical. They're still advertising them and allowing them to be purchased.


HKParts shows all of their flats as OOS.
 
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animator said:
HKParts shows all of their flats as OOS.
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they were running a halfass sale, they'd jacked the prices up and then ran a "sale" that brought it back down above the previous price

dunno, maybe they'll start just selling them as completed rec's like sarco does
 
The ruling doesn't actually state what an unfinished receiver is, if fact if you watch the video they are very clear that just because something was listed as an 80% doesnt mean it is banned (since 80% was never an AFT term)

I asked my IOI about this and basically they have a department that will make determinations on what is and isn't (which seemed to be what they were doing before) and is going to consider what is sold with and included. So a company that only sells "80% ar lowers" with no jigs, bits, etc may be allowed, where one that sells the blank with a jig, bits and instructions may not be.

Flats (esp HK and similar) may be fine. No one is selling a kit that includes a hydraulic press and a welder - therefore its is not "readily" convertible into a firearm.

If I had to guess they are going to make some general rules at what is "readily" convertible aka can be completed with a handheld drill and no prior experience or skills. Or can be completed with a basic drill press.

But kits are done for. We may see 80% lower companies stick around, but they can only sell the blanks or the jigs, but not both

Who knows. This ruling says a lot without saying much. The biggest real change is if an unmarked PMF hits an FFL for more than same day they have to mark it (but not get an 4473 to return it)
 
kf4zht said:
If I had to guess they are going to make some general rules at what is "readily" convertible aka can be completed with a handheld drill and no prior experience or skills. Or can be completed with a basic drill press.
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mini 14
m1a
garand

10" long piece of string
 
[486] said:
mini 14
m1a
garand

10" long piece of string
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That's not readily convertible by the common populace. I don't think most Americans know more than 1 knot and that's only due to tying shoes. Heck, people who wear crocs might not even know 1

Reading over this more and more they basically wrote a do-over. They specifically say that if it wasn't allowed before it still isn't and it was it Might not be anymore. Otherwise you can still make your own gun, you can have a gunsmith work on it without serializing (provided it is there less than 1 day), they aren't make 4473s required if you do get it worked on and serialized.

Should they be allowed a do-over on creating laws they couldnt legally make in the first place - fuck no, but they are.
 
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