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80% ban?

Weasel

Weasel

Red Skull Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
712
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Black Hills, SoDak
Didn't see this but got a email with the following:

Screenshot_20220412-185458.png
 
While not a fan of FFL impediments but IIRC isn't the issue more of one needing to have a requisite permit/license and deal with the serialization paperwork for the ATF?

Basically one cant just be an importer/peddler of metal parts any longer, one has to serialize the parts which would also require a builder FFL permit and requisite log of the numbers and who sold to as I read it.

BTW, this hit the muzzle loader builder folks back around 2005 when builders found they had to serialize their flintlocks before peddling them per the ATF...yep rock locks can be "ghost guns" as well. :dustin:
 
i went ahead and bought a couple 80% ak receivers from them, even though prices are still high. Even if prices come down, not having to pay the transfer fee from an FFL makes up for a bunch, so figured why not.

even though i have no real plans to put together an AK.

Not a direct ban, and the actual ATF definition is wonky as all fuck, in typical fashion. "parts which can be assembled into" is the new definition of what a firearm is. so what part is going to be serialized? who the fuck knows. it's going to be a shitshow.

biggest change, in my opinion, is the change from 20 year to lifetime record keeping. Can't imagine how much capactiy it will take for a place like buds guns who do massive volume to keep all those records for that long :shaking: or just shut down your business and reopen under a new name and a new family member every couple of years like a furniture store :lmao:

It was already an existing rule that a weapon had to be serialized to transfer it. I guess this is their attempt to work around the state-level laws which allow for "made in idaho" and other non-interstate transfers to avoid serial numbers :confused: still not sure how the ATF will be able to play that one out, simply saying "any weapon in FFL inventory must be serialized" is still out of their reach, though in typical fashion it will take a long and life destroying court battle to prove they can't do that, and they will just drop it at the end anyways.
 
www.justice.gov

Justice Department Announces New Rule to Modernize Firearm Definitions

Today, the Department of Justice announced that it has submitted to the Federal Register the “Frame or Receiver” Final Rule, which modernizes the definition of a firearm. Once implemented, this rule will clarify that parts kits that are readily convertible to firearms are subject to the same...
www.justice.gov www.justice.gov

Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, April 11, 2022

Justice Department Announces New Rule to Modernize Firearm Definitions​

Rule Addresses ‘Ghost Gun’ Proliferation​

Today, the Department of Justice announced that it has submitted to the Federal Register the “Frame or Receiver” Final Rule, which modernizes the definition of a firearm. Once implemented, this rule will clarify that parts kits that are readily convertible to firearms are subject to the same regulations as traditional firearms. These regulatory updates will help curb the proliferation of “ghost guns,” which are often assembled from kits, do not contain serial numbers, and are sold without background checks, making them difficult to trace and easy to acquire by criminals.
“One year ago, the Department committed to address the proliferation of ghost guns used in violent crimes,” said Attorney General Merrick B. Garland. “This rule will make it harder for criminals and other prohibited persons to obtain untraceable guns, will help ensure that law enforcement officers can retrieve the information they need to solve crimes, and will help reduce the number of untraceable firearms flooding our communities. I commend all our colleagues at the ATF who have worked tirelessly over the past 12 months to get this important rule finalized, and to do it in a way that respects the rights of law-abiding Americans.”
The rule goes into effect 120 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register, and once implemented, will address the proliferation of these un-serialized firearms in several ways. These include:
  1. To help keep guns from being sold to convicted felons and other prohibited purchasers, the rule makes clear that retailers must run background checks before selling kits that contain the parts necessary for someone to readily make a gun.
  2. To help law enforcement trace guns used in a crime, the rule modernizes the definition of frame or receiver, clarifying what must be marked with a serial number – including in easy-to-build firearm kits.
  3. To help reduce the number of unmarked and hard-to-trace “ghost guns,” the rule establishes requirements for federally licensed firearms dealers and gunsmiths to have a serial number added to 3D printed guns or other un-serialized firearms they take into inventory.
  4. To better support tracing efforts, the rule requires federal firearms licensees, including gun retailers, to retain records for the length of time they are licensed, thereby expanding records retention beyond the prior requirement of 20 years. Over the past decade, ATF has been unable to trace thousands of firearms – many reportedly used in homicides or other violent crimes – because the records had already been destroyed. These records will continue to belong to, and be maintained by, federal firearms licensees while they are in business.
As the final rule explains, from January 2016 to December 2021, ATF received approximately 45,240 reports of suspected privately made firearms recovered by law enforcement, including in 692 homicide or attempted homicide investigations. The chart below demonstrates the total annual numbers of suspected PMFs recovered by law enforcement over the past six years:
forf_rule.png

Today’s announcement marks one year since the Attorney General directed the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to issue a proposed rule within 30 days that would address the proliferation of unmarked firearms increasingly being used in crimes. On May 7, 2021, the Department of Justice issued a notice of proposed rulemaking, and during the 90-day open comment period, the ATF received more than 290,000 comments, the highest number of comments submitted to a proposed rule in ATF’s history. Today’s announcement is also the latest in a series of steps the department has taken to address violent crime and gun violence.
The final rule, as submitted to the Federal Register, can be viewed here: Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
To learn more about the rulemaking process, please see: https://www.federalregister.gov/uploads/2011/01/the_rulemaking_process.pdf
For more information, see the attached fact sheet.
 
More infringement, thanks FJB.
 
72blazer said:
Guess I should pick up a 80percentarms Jig soon. Been putting it off for a couple of years. :mad3:
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I bet the jigs will always be around. Maybe even get cheaper when people can't buy lowers anymore.
 
Jeez, somewhere, someplace I still have a brand new AK-47 flat. I guess if Uncle Joe wants it he can come over and get it, personally...
 
Ill be selling fixtures and code for CNC machines, if there is enough demand.
 
So why is there not a run on 80% right now?

I looked again today and still fair prices. Still available.

Something missing in the coming ban I don't know about?
 
Tiha said:
So why is there not a run on 80% right now?

I looked again today and still fair prices. Still available.

Something missing in the coming ban I don't know about?
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well i think prices are still high, but also for the past few years so i'm just old i guess, but also because this isn't a "ban", it is just a bit of fringing on the edges of a ban. Most people don't mind that you can get them, just need to pay a little more for a serial number, and an FFL and, well, it's basically a gun anyways and "who can even mess with those things?" and "it's cheaper to just buy a complete gun anyways" and "i'm not a criminal, so why should I care"

all those things.

was there a run on bump stocks when they got banned? That was much more of a "ban" than this and most people shrugged it off.
 
Provience said:
That was much more of a "ban" than this and most people shrugged it off.
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I was never interested in the bump stock.

and I am sure they can track a lot through upper, barrel, and other parts purchases.

The 80% is nice because no FFL, that helps keep the cost down. You can by a complete stripped lower for less than an 80% but shipping is different and the hassle of filling the paperwork out.

I am not trying to hide anything as much as I don't like to pay people for stuff I think is stupid.
 
Tiha said:
I was never interested in the bump stock.

and I am sure they can track a lot through upper, barrel, and other parts purchases.

The 80% is nice because no FFL, that helps keep the cost down. You can by a complete stripped lower for less than an 80% but shipping is different and the hassle of filling the paperwork out.

I am not trying to hide anything as much as I don't like to pay people for stuff I think is stupid.
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i agree, i like the low price, the ability to build over time. i don't give a damn about a serial number, not that the feds can even do shit with one anyways, if you look at their dismal success rate with current serialized stuff and it "solving a case"

this is just another way to make things more expensive, more restrictive and keep people from attempting to learn about stuff.

just like bumpstocks. literally shut down US build and founded business' to simply have their pissing contest :shaking:
 
People find you can build your own firearm, rifle or pistol, they take advantage of this fact, then maybe one criminal asshole also finds out about this "loophole" fact and takes advantage of it.

Government gets wind that a criminal somewhere made use of this "loophole" and buys or on the unlikely possibility "criminal" actually builds one and used it in the commission of a crime.

In reality government just wants to remove guns of any kind from the hands of the firearm owning population.
 
Venom Defense and Design has the 6061 Billet for $40 ea... OR you can get extra discounted per item with the bulk packs.

Use 'NEWKID' coupon code for 5% more off. :grinpimp::beer:

So for a random example... 10 6061 billet 80s would be about $356 shipped to your door.
 
If I was going to buy a 80% anything it would be at a funshow face to face with cash, no credit card no shipping.
 
DavidVanVorous said:
While not a fan of FFL impediments but IIRC isn't the issue more of one needing to have a requisite permit/license and deal with the serialization paperwork for the ATF?

Basically one cant just be an importer/peddler of metal parts any longer, one has to serialize the parts which would also require a builder FFL permit and requisite log of the numbers and who sold to as I read it.
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That's a big one, to serialize stuff you've got to have the right FFL, and I suspect many of the places selling 80's and only 80's don't have that, and will likely get fucked around trying to get one. With our 80% ban here in WA we're all supposed to take our spooky guns to a qualified gunsmith to be serialized. Except you know, with no serial number who knows which ones were around pre-ban?
 
"Ghost Guns" was the topic of 1A yesterday, I didn't get to catch the whole thing when it aired, but listened to it in its entirety this morning.

It's astounding the number of EXPERTS that go on a national news program and have no clue what they're talking about. I wish they'd gotten someone from GOA, FPC, or P80 themselves in the debate, but the only pro gun speaker was Fudd Pincus, and he was prerecorded.

If I learned anything from the interviews, it's that I am 150% sure I'm glad Chipman didn't get the ATF directer job.

If you're on blood pressure meds, maybe don't listen.
the1a.org

The Biden administration just regulated 'ghost guns.' What does that mean?

Efforts amongst Senate Republicans to block the measure are already underway.
the1a.org the1a.org
 
Tiha said:
So why is there not a run on 80% right now?

I looked again today and still fair prices. Still available.

Something missing in the coming ban I don't know about?
Click to expand...
I realise older post is old. But there kind of is, at least now anyway. I was planning on getting a few specific cetme-c flats from RTG and those were gone sometime last week. I know for a fact I got the last bulgarian-marked AK74 pre-bent blank from AK-builder.com. I got several more flats, and a few more G3 flats at the same time.

Thing is with these 80s, companies had shit tons of them, and the 80% builder market is a tiny fraction of overall gun enthusiasts, and I'd speculate the AR and Polymer80 dominating most of that due to the simplicity and overall general lack of skill needed to complete one. 80% builders of literally any other gun are pretty rare, I'd say.

This whole thing sucks complete shit. I was hoping to get some 80% Tortort blanks to re-do some of my older re-welded kits, but those are gone.

I've been destroying and rebuilding many of my AKs onto serialized receivers and noticed Childers is back up to several weeks lead times on their FFL and non-FFL products. They were down to as little as 2 weeks just a month ago.

So shit's getting dumb and I hope that Garland motherfucker burns in hell for all this stupid shit he's putting on. And fuck the ATF.
 
DavidVanVorous said:
BTW, this hit the muzzle loader builder folks back around 2005 when builders found they had to serialize their flintlocks before peddling them per the ATF...yep rock locks can be "ghost guns" as well. :dustin:
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Is that a state thing because the fed doesnt require SNs on muzzle loaders. Walmart sells them over the counter with no FFL. They arent considered firearms. Even new ones.
 
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Not news for a hunnert
Welcome to the prk's wet dream president
 
I think the reason for “no run” on these is that the ATF is prone to show up on 6 months and say “we know you bought these, they are now illegal. We might do absolutely nothing, or we might show up at 3 am, kick your door in, shoot your wife and dog, and drag you to prison for 10 years.”

No thanks. Once again, it’s not going to do a single thing to prevent crime.
 
Agree that it’s not going to do shit to stop crime. I don’t have the factual ability to refute the claims made by that graph, but being that it’s from the gov with a clear agenda, I’m a bit more than slightly skeptical.
 
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