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$6M in revenues

considering they likely have very few actual employees, i'd believe it. aren't they just an arm, er, shell, of another media conglomerate?
 
Provience said:
considering they likely have very few actual employees, i'd believe it. aren't they just an arm, er, shell, of another media conglomerate?
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45 employees, I think. For the number of forums they zombied, that number seems low.
 
spork said:
130 employees according to https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/13223-62#overview

Glassdoor has some interesting comments
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/VerticalScope-Reviews-E485412.htm

Torstar aquired a 56% stake in 2005 for 200 Million :eek:
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130 sounds high, i wonder if that is counting contractors ? Guess i have no idea how tech shit works, but what in the fuck could they possibly need 100 employees for. the 14 "board members" plus maybe another 2 dozen...maybe, sounds like way more than enough warm bodies as full time staff. And hell, that is with 35 people simply there to suck up investor money and provide nothing :lmao:
 
Paragon said:
45 employees, I think. For the number of forums they zombied, that number seems low.
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that's closer to what i would imagine. including giving the former babysitter an office job to make coffee runs in a mini skirt types. it isn't like it is very resource intense to buy a forum and run it in to the ground.
 
Paragon said:
Is that all Vertical Scope does?
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It's not about the ad revenue. It's about controlling information dissemination. That's what Alphabet does. That's what the big social networks do. How do you think the venture capital guys who funded that feel about spending hundreds of millions to buy up all the forums just to generate 6 million in revenue before expenses?

How much of Pirate now uses Facebook since VS bought out PBB? Now ask yourself how many would still be on PBB instead of locked out for their email change?

"whoops, sorry all your data got hacked. We're just a foreign company, you litigious hosers."

-VS :caugh: Torstar :caugh:

Seriously, this isn't even conspiracy. It's just multi-national corporatism. Look at how companies like Monsanto behave. All of the media conglomerates were in charge of all the information we all recieve about the present. That's a huge amount of power and influence. You don't think those media conglomerates are making sure they still have a roll to play?

Think about the demographic that frequents automotive forums. That's probably one of the most valuable subcategory in the population. It would be a shame if they lost their freedom space in the internet where nobody could control what they said, how they shared knowledge, and what products they used their money on.
 
I honestly don't think it is that complex. I really do think it is sheer incompetence. it's like Richard Rawlings making millions doing his shit TV show. i mean, hell, good for him for making millions i guess.

I really think this is just a fun way that VS is using venture capital money to get hookers and blow. just that simple
 
Action Fab said:
It's not about the ad revenue. It's about controlling information dissemination. That's what Alphabet does. That's what the big social networks do. How do you think the venture capital guys who funded that feel about spending hundreds of millions to buy up all the forums just to generate 6 million in revenue before expenses?

How much of Pirate now uses Facebook since VS bought out PBB? Now ask yourself how many would still be on PBB instead of locked out for their email change?

"whoops, sorry all your data got hacked. We're just a foreign company, you litigious hosers."

-VS :caugh: Torstar :caugh:

Seriously, this isn't even conspiracy. It's just multi-national corporatism. Look at how companies like Monsanto behave. All of the media conglomerates were in charge of all the information we all recieve about the present. That's a huge amount of power and influence. You don't think those media conglomerates are making sure they still have a roll to play?

Think about the demographic that frequents automotive forums. That's probably one of the most valuable subcategory in the population. It would be a shame if they lost their freedom space in the internet where nobody could control what they said, how they shared knowledge, and what products they used their money on.
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WTF????

Dude, everything comes down to money. The Toronto Star is not some huge multinational conglomerate. They are a fucking decal on the size of someone like Monsanto.

It's about the money and if that $6M is accurate, that's not a lot of money for the headache. Granted, print media companies have been look for new revenue for 15 years, but I just assumed their share would be more with 600+ sites owned.
 
Provience said:
I honestly don't think it is that complex. I really do think it is sheer incompetence. it's like Richard Rawlings making millions doing his shit TV show. i mean, hell, good for him for making millions i guess.

I really think this is just a fun way that VS is using venture capital money to get hookers and blow. just that simple
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for real, honestly, this is the basis of my question.
 
Paragon said:
WTF????

Dude, everything comes down to money. The Toronto Star is not some huge multinational conglomerate. They are a fucking decal on the size of someone like Monsanto.

It's about the money and if that $6M is accurate, that's not a lot of money for the headache. Granted, print media companies have been look for new revenue for 15 years, but I just assumed their share would be more with 600+ sites owned.
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We're saying the same thing.

I'm not saying TorStar is the big multinational. I'm saying alphabet and the other social networks are.

I'm not saying I know the details. I'm just saying on a big picture. This isn't about money, it's about information.

What we know as facts:

-Hundreds of millions from unknown sources funded the acquisitions.

-A track record of destroying communities is seen, without any change to business policies. VS is well aware of the repercussions of their actions form large analytical data. They have been at this process over a decade.

-They do not turn a profit. They hardly make enough revenue to cover expenses. They will never recoup the initial investment.

So what's the motivation of this enterprise if it's not to make money?
 
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Paragon said:
WTF????

Dude, everything comes down to money. The Toronto Star is not some huge multinational conglomerate. They are a fucking decal on the size of someone like Monsanto.

It's about the money and if that $6M is accurate, that's not a lot of money for the headache. Granted, print media companies have been look for new revenue for 15 years, but I just assumed their share would be more with 600+ sites owned.
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it's got to be a way for the right hand to wash the left when their media companies advertise on their media formats
 
It's a venture capital parking space. There is so much goddamned money out there, has been since the first dot.com bust 2000-2002. That's why corporate bailouts right now are an obscenity. There's more than enough capital out there to bailout cruise lines, airlines, and casinos.

VS doesn't have to do anything but keep a legal accounting system.

In short, it's a tax shelter and capital movement vehicle. Money laundering for non-gangsters. There's a million companies like this, I worked for one. Usually they are in the Information economy because the it has a traditionally very high level of value to revenue ratio. Federal regulators tend to believe it's possible for a company like Facebook to be worth several dozen billion dollars but show no profit.

So VS hiding a few hundred million is nothing.

PBB was the hair on the mole on the ass of the tick in the armpit of Capital.
 
evernoob said:
It's a venture capital parking space. There is so much goddamned money out there, has been since the first dot.com bust 2000-2002. That's why corporate bailouts right now are an obscenity. There's more than enough capital out there to bailout cruise lines, airlines, and casinos.

VS doesn't have to do anything but keep a legal accounting system.

In short, it's a tax shelter and capital movement vehicle. Money laundering for non-gangsters. There's a million companies like this, I worked for one. Usually they are in the Information economy because the it has a traditionally very high level of value to revenue ratio. Federal regulators tend to believe it's possible for a company like Facebook to be worth several dozen billion dollars but show no profit.

So VS hiding a few hundred million is nothing.

PBB was the hair on the mole on the ass of the tick in the armpit of Capital.
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I have no idea of what you refer to as VS hiding a few hundred million and I don't think this is a tax shelter.

I think it was a sweetheart deal that was likely designed to shield cash from investors after torstar sold off a romance novel division.

The acquisition multiple paid by Torstar is approximately 12 times VerticalScope's trailing adjusted EBITDA and 10 times VerticalScope's expected forward adjusted EBITDA. Torstar's investment has been financed from its cash resources.

Torstar has acquired ABRY Partners' minority interest in VerticalScope along with more than one third of the shares held by the continuing shareholders, with whom Torstar will share control. The aggregate consideration paid by Torstar was $200 million based upon an enterprise value of $404 million
 
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evernoob said:
It's a venture capital parking space. There is so much goddamned money out there, has been since the first dot.com bust 2000-2002. That's why corporate bailouts right now are an obscenity. There's more than enough capital out there to bailout cruise lines, airlines, and casinos.

VS doesn't have to do anything but keep a legal accounting system.

In short, it's a tax shelter and capital movement vehicle. Money laundering for non-gangsters. There's a million companies like this, I worked for one. Usually they are in the Information economy because the it has a traditionally very high level of value to revenue ratio. Federal regulators tend to believe it's possible for a company like Facebook to be worth several dozen billion dollars but show no profit.

So VS hiding a few hundred million is nothing.

PBB was the hair on the mole on the ass of the tick in the armpit of Capital.
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indeed.

which is why it's stupid they won't let people delete posts or migrate custom emoticon thingys :rasta:

Not every company exists to make money, many of them exist to simply launder it
 
evernoob said:
It's a venture capital parking space. There is so much goddamned money out there, has been since the first dot.com bust 2000-2002. That's why corporate bailouts right now are an obscenity. There's more than enough capital out there to bailout cruise lines, airlines, and casinos.

VS doesn't have to do anything but keep a legal accounting system.

In short, it's a tax shelter and capital movement vehicle. Money laundering for non-gangsters. There's a million companies like this, I worked for one. Usually they are in the Information economy because the it has a traditionally very high level of value to revenue ratio. Federal regulators tend to believe it's possible for a company like Facebook to be worth several dozen billion dollars but show no profit.

So VS hiding a few hundred million is nothing.

PBB was the hair on the mole on the ass of the tick in the armpit of Capital.
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They're not hiding shit. They spent more than 200 million. They're not in the business of giving money away to community owners for a tax write off.

Money laundering schemes use massive amounts of revenue to hide the money wash. VS doesn't receive a massive revenue. Landing 6 million dollars is low level gang banging shit. Not billion dollar tech company shit.
 
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Action Fab said:
They're not hiding shit. They spent more than 200 million. They're not in the business of giving money away to community owners for a tax write off.
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I can't imagine they (the board) are living like 'the poors' moving that money around. Their product is the acquisitions and then the sales of the ad 'space' to places with obscene budgets who can't control their money. Dedicated sub forums on 600 boards with 0 posts? How much do you think that costs, as a direct writeoff to jim bobs cousin to manage?
 
Provience said:
I can't imagine they (the board) are living like 'the poors' moving that money around. Their product is the acquisitions and then the sales of the ad 'space' to places with obscene budgets who can't control their money. Dedicated sub forums on 600 boards with 0 posts? How much do you think that costs, as a direct writeoff to jim bobs cousin to manage?
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Look, I hang out with super rich jet owning people who chum around at the upper levels. I know a lot of people who lose money on horses for a write off. I get how it works. This is not how they do it.

People who have fuck you money don't care about the money. It becomes about conquest. The purpose of life is to compete. We're all here to carve out our peice. Technology has allowed those who wield it to conquer more than ever.
 
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Action Fab said:
Look, I hang out with super rich jet owning people who chum around at the upper levels. I know a lot of people who lose money on horses for a write off. I get how it works. This is not how they do it.

People who have fuck you money don't care about the money. It becomes about conquest. The purpose of life is to compete. We're all here to carve out our peice. Technology has allowed those who wield it to conquer more than ever.
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yeah i just don't think VS is in the same league as a lot of those guys. they probably want to be, but i don't think they are there yet. or, likely, ever will get there.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
I believe your wrong on this one. What EN is saying makes alot more sense than your giving credit for. Think about it for a minute...


I cant believe I just posted that! :eek:
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I just initially dismissed whatever he said as a holding place. I generally just dismiss what he says without reading anything he said but I did go back and look at VS share sale to torstar and then edit my post
 
Paragon said:
I have no idea of what you refer to as VS hiding a few hundred million and I don't think this is a tax shelter.

I think it was a sweetheart deal that was likely designed to shield cash from investors after torstar sold off a romance novel division.

The acquisition multiple paid by Torstar is approximately 12 times VerticalScope's trailing adjusted EBITDA and 10 times VerticalScope's expected forward adjusted EBITDA. Torstar's investment has been financed from its cash resources.

Torstar has acquired ABRY Partners' minority interest in VerticalScope along with more than one third of the shares held by the continuing shareholders, with whom Torstar will share control. The aggregate consideration paid by Torstar was $200 million based upon an enterprise value of $404 million
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Look I'm not saying Torstar or VS is doing anything shady and it's a legit front.

People with loads of money can't just pile it in a vault and dive in every once in a while. The government is going to come and take it. You can either park it in a Trust like the Fords, in which case you're 'stuck' with what that Trust is, or you can pay mega taxes on it because it just won't stop making fucking money no matter what you do, or you can invest it in a company. If you put the money to work, taxes are much easier and you have a decent amount of liquidity which Trusts don't afford.

You can position your investments in everything from Real Estate, which can be quite hard to withdraw from, all the way to super VC shit like Shark Tank. They diversify.

Companies in Information are very attractive because there are no 'real' assets, and so someone like Mitt 'Fuck the Working Man' Romney won't come along and buy your company, fire everyone, liquidate the Pensions, and sell off the machines. That's Mitt's literal family business. There's a roll for that. It's a scum-scuking asshole-licking role, but there is one, and Mitt's family licks those assholes.

No, instead you invest it in a company which has intangible assets like Intellectual Property. You can also patent-troll, do Biotech (the VC-parking company I worked for just happened to serve a lot of Biotech... hmmm.....), and other non-tangible assets. Like, say, owning a perpetual-interest sharing space like Automotive Interest. Or, Vertical Scopalomine.

That way you can pretty much decide what the company is worth.

VS very much looks like one of those types of companies. I had that impression when they bought out Lance, and I have that impression now.

Nothing I'm saying is in any way Conspiracy Theory or speculation. This is literally how it's done.

There is an absolute fuckload of cash out there and it has to go somewhere. You can't just pay taxes to make welfare-recipients even fucking fatter, I guess unless you also invest in Beetus supplies and the like....
 
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In the late 90s I helped start a roll-up company. We had cash from J.O. Hambro, Greenberg Trauig was our legal, Deloitte was our accounting. We had to make up shit to generate a 10x EBITDA multiple. Ours had nothing to do with dot.com stuff but when that rolled around I stayed away because it made no sense then and still makes no sense. Wall Street is completely detached from Main Street and with institutional mega insta-trades it has warped the market beyond recognition. Before there a few blue sky areas, now the whole market is blue sky and very little reality. That said, this still doesn't make sense because internet ad revenue is not going to increase and is too consolidated as it is.
 
evernoob said:
Look I'm not saying Torstar or VS is doing anything shady and it's a legit front.

People with loads of money can't just pile it in a vault and dive in every once in a while. The government is going to come and take it. You can either park it in a Trust like the Fords, in which case you're 'stuck' with what that Trust is, or you can pay mega taxes on it because it just won't stop making fucking money no matter what you do, or you can invest it in a company. If you put the money to work, taxes are much easier and you have a decent amount of liquidity which Trusts don't afford.

You can position your investments in everything from Real Estate, which can be quite hard to withdraw from, all the way to super VC shit like Shark Tank. They diversify.

Companies in Information are very attractive because there are no 'real' assets, and so someone like Mitt 'Fuck the Working Man' Romney won't come along and buy your company, fire everyone, liquidate the Pensions, and sell off the machines. That's Mitt's literal family business. There's a roll for that. It's a scum-scuking asshole-licking role, but there is one, and Mitt's family licks those assholes.

No, instead you invest it in a company which has intangible assets like Intellectual Property. You can also patent-troll, do Biotech (the VC-parking company I worked for just happened to serve a lot of Biotech... hmmm.....), and other non-tangible assets. Like, say, owning a perpetual-interest sharing space like Automotive Interest. Or, Vertical Scopalomine.

That way you can pretty much decide what the company is worth.

VS very much looks like one of those types of companies. I had that impression when they bought out Lance, and I have that impression now.

Nothing I'm saying is in any way Conspiracy Theory or speculation. This is literally how it's done.

There is an absolute fuckload of cash out there and it has to go somewhere. You can't just pay taxes to make welfare-recipients even fucking fatter, I guess unless you also invest in Beetus supplies and the like....
Click to expand...


I mean to say that PBB and other Auto-interest boards are perpetually visited by people asking quesitons and showing off (and we love our showoffs don't we?), but there's not really anything there. It's just a space where people come together to talk about terrible shit like the smell of rear end pig oil.

There's nothing there, but it's worth a lot. Ad revenue doesn't pay much, so why are these companies so goddamined high-valued?

Because it's a place to put money that you can withdraw if you need it.

God I wish my family was fucking rich. I'd own the goddamned universe.

No it's not that easy though, literally everyone knows this so you have to compete with every fuckhead with cash. Which is a lot of fuckheads.
 
evernoob said:
Look I'm not saying Torstar or VS is doing anything shady and it's a legit front.

People with loads of money can't just pile it in a vault and dive in every once in a while. The government is going to come and take it. You can either park it in a Trust like the Fords, in which case you're 'stuck' with what that Trust is, or you can pay mega taxes on it because it just won't stop making fucking money no matter what you do, or you can invest it in a company. If you put the money to work, taxes are much easier and you have a decent amount of liquidity which Trusts don't afford.

You can position your investments in everything from Real Estate, which can be quite hard to withdraw from, all the way to super VC shit like Shark Tank. They diversify.

Companies in Information are very attractive because there are no 'real' assets, and so someone like Mitt 'Fuck the Working Man' Romney won't come along and buy your company, fire everyone, liquidate the Pensions, and sell off the machines. That's Mitt's literal family business. There's a roll for that. It's a scum-scuking asshole-licking role, but there is one, and Mitt's family licks those assholes.

No, instead you invest it in a company which has intangible assets like Intellectual Property. You can also patent-troll, do Biotech (the VC-parking company I worked for just happened to serve a lot of Biotech... hmmm.....), and other non-tangible assets.

That way you can pretty much decide what the company is worth.

VS very much looks like one of those types of companies. I had that impression when they bought out Lance, and I have that impression now.

Nothing I'm saying is in any way Conspiracy Theory or speculation. This is literally how it's done.

There is an absolute fuckload of cash out there and it has to go somewhere. You can't just pay taxes to make welfare-recipients even fucking fatter, I guess unless you also invest in Beetus supplies and the like....
Click to expand...

as I said earlier, this looks like VS was right place right time and torstar had just had a cash inflow from another sale

How I got to even look at this is all of the "big bad VS" shit and a VC firm is backing, etc. They're ticks. The OG shareholders got them some cash based on a maximum 10x EBITDA.
 
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