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4 yrs since fatties ventilated their neighbor in Texas alley

Bonanza said:
Well... group shootings and self defense are the top of the complexity mountain in criminal law. I'll do my best to break it down.

In a group beat-down, or a group shooting, whoever fires the killing shot doesn't necessarily matter. As long as you're part of the team, you get the prize. But even knowing that, while there are a few ways to prove murder, the prosecution still has to prove it wasn't in self defense for each defendant. From what I gather, there was an allegation the father pointed a gun at the dead guy. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, then it triggers a right to self defense for the dead guy. This is important because self-defense doesn't get to grow on itself, and you can't provoke fights and use self defense to get out. For instance, I can't point a gun at someone, lower it, and then try to claim self defense when the guy I just pointed a gun at tries to kill me, but I kill him first. Nor can you shoot someone because they punched you. You can't use deadly force as defense when not faced with deadly force.

So here it's possible the defense successfully argued that the skinny guy didn't do anything to provoke the dead guy. When the shooting starts, he could have claimed self defense, defense of others (father) or mistaken self defense to shoot. Whereas, since the father pointed the gun first (maybe), he instigated a confrontation that resulted in him killing someone who was trying to defend himself. But since son is separate from that equation, he could claim self defense because he didn't provoke the confrontation.

That's all speculation, and I'd be curious to have heard the evidence and argument. For example, the case apparently involved the relationship between the three men before the day of. This could impact who could use self defense, at what point, etc. If skinny son got his ass kicked by the dead guy earlier, it could result in him being legally able to use self defense at an earlier point in father. Father also was saying many times that he wasn't afraid of the dead guy's threats.

There's a LOT to unpack in that interaction. And Texas self-defense is different that what I'm used to, but similar in many respects. And finally, the law is the law, but 12 people can do whatever the hell they want with it in a case like this.
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I'm confused, we're we watching the same video? I saw no skinny son.....
 
rockota said:
i've always found this confusing... how does one know, definitively, that the force would not turn deadly at some point?
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Or even worse, "great bodily injury".

What is that? I've seen countless videos of someone simply being punched and having convulsions and/or suffering brain damage.
Is being knocked out by a punch considered great bodily injury, and therefore reasonable to use a gun as a force against someone looking to punch you?


I wonder if someone goes to pick a fight with you and you say to them "do you intend to cause me great injury"? And if they say yes, you can pop them in self defense?
 
Stuck said:
That doesnt make sense from that video.
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Gee, it's almost as if there could be other information that was not shown in that video. Is this the way you always conduct yourself? By assuming facts not in evidence? Tell us how this tendency of yours factored into the active shooter situations you were personally involved with.
 
plym49.2 said:
Gee, it's almost as if there could be other information that was not shown in that video. Is this the way you always conduct yourself? By assuming facts not in evidence? Tell us how this tendency of yours factored into the active shooter situations you were personally involved with.
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I mean.... he is a fed :laughing:
 
plym49.2 said:
Gee, it's almost as if there could be other information that was not shown in that video. Is this the way you always conduct yourself? By assuming facts not in evidence? Tell us how this tendency of yours factored into the active shooter situations you were personally involved with.
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No shit fucktard. Thts why I specifically said in THAT VIDEO. When you gonna pull my cock out of your mouth? Its getting pretty sad.
 
Stuck said:
No shit fucktard. Thts why I specifically said in THAT VIDEO. When you gonna pull my cock out of your mouth? Its getting pretty sad.
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So what the fucks your point? Next you going to post about how the sky doesn't look blue at night therefore the sky cannot be blue?
 
Stuck said:
No shit fucktard. Thts why I specifically said in THAT VIDEO. When you gonna pull my cock out of your mouth? Its getting pretty sad.
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No, that's not what you said, fedboicumbucket. You said it was outright murder.

Typical fed, lie after lie.

Stuck said:
Fat piece of shit with the shotgun straight up committed murder. He should hang.
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Now, tell us about your active shooter situations. We're waiting.
 
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plym49.2 said:
No, that's not what you said, fedboicumbucket. You said it was outright murder.

Typical fed, lie after lie.



Now, tell us about your active shooter situations. We're waiting.
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Based on what was shown on that video, yes. That is my opinion. Thedude that got shot was no longer a threat to anyone. Then fatty 2 pointed his shotgun and fired. The only way that wouldnt be murder or at least aggravated homocide is if the guy was already dead.
 
This thread, the action should be a thing of joy and reverence that reaches us special people on the beautiful level. Let's get back to that :lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
Stuck said:
Based on what was shown on that video, yes. That is my opinion. Thedude that got shot was no longer a threat to anyone. Then fatty 2 pointed his shotgun and fired. The only way that wouldnt be murder or at least aggravated homocide is if the guy was already dead.
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Changing your tune over and over. Can't keep track of his lies. Typical shit-for-brains, mouth-breathing, blowhard fed. Go snort broken glass.
 
rockota said:
i've always found this confusing... how does one know, definitively, that the force would not turn deadly at some point?
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Agreed.

Goin' on way back to Zimmerman case, if someone starts beating my ass by hand, and I shoot them, it appears imbalanced. But I've seen more than one case where a single punch causes death or serious bodily injury. The instructions provide that general set of ideas to apply to a given set of facts, and that's where an attorney's skill (or lack thereof) comes into play. This is why self defense (and my requirement to disprove it as an element of a violent crime) is so challenging. Every single defense attorney asks for the instruction in a violent crime case. It's no secret-- my job to DISPROVE it is insanely hard.

Once I put on my case, the defense can put on theirs. They can call witnesses to say defendant lives in a bad neighborhood, got beaten growing up, has anxiety/PTSD/etc, knew the dead guy was violent, etc, etc, etc, etc. All it takes is a single juror out of the 12 to believe the defendant had a belief he was in danger. He didn't even need to actually be in danger, just a belief he was.

This is also why prosecuting police officers in shootings is like catching a unicorn. Officers have all the training and experience in the world to articulate a believable tale of why they felt they were in danger. Like that case where the black guy who had a CCW, sitting in the driver's seat with his hands up and the cop lit him up. What seems egregious on video becomes diluted once the officer explains his subjective beliefs. The instructions make the jury stand in the place of the defendant's own shoes-- using his own world experiences is determining whether his subjective belief was reasonable. That cop was guilty as shit, but self defense applies to police as well...

Every single case of a violent crime is the same. And as a prosecutor, I can't bring in my own parade of witnesses to disparage the defendant, or bring up his past crimes. There are situations when I can, but it's insanely limited. And bringing it up gives a good appellate issue.

Most criminal cases aren't won in front of a jury, they are truly battled on appeal.
 
Bonanza said:
Agreed.

Goin' on way back to Zimmerman case, if someone starts beating my ass by hand, and I shoot them, it appears imbalanced. But I've seen more than one case where a single punch causes death or serious bodily injury. The instructions provide that general set of ideas to apply to a given set of facts, and that's where an attorney's skill (or lack thereof) comes into play. This is why self defense (and my requirement to disprove it as an element of a violent crime) is so challenging. Every single defense attorney asks for the instruction in a violent crime case. It's no secret-- my job to DISPROVE it is insanely hard.

Once I put on my case, the defense can put on theirs. They can call witnesses to say defendant lives in a bad neighborhood, got beaten growing up, has anxiety/PTSD/etc, knew the dead guy was violent, etc, etc, etc, etc. All it takes is a single juror out of the 12 to believe the defendant had a belief he was in danger. He didn't even need to actually be in danger, just a belief he was.

This is also why prosecuting police officers in shootings is like catching a unicorn. Officers have all the training and experience in the world to articulate a believable tale of why they felt they were in danger. Like that case where the black guy who had a CCW, sitting in the driver's seat with his hands up and the cop lit him up. What seems egregious on video becomes diluted once the officer explains his subjective beliefs. The instructions make the jury stand in the place of the defendant's own shoes-- using his own world experiences is determining whether his subjective belief was reasonable. That cop was guilty as shit, but self defense applies to police as well...

Every single case of a violent crime is the same. And as a prosecutor, I can't bring in my own parade of witnesses to disparage the defendant, or bring up his past crimes. There are situations when I can, but it's insanely limited. And bringing it up gives a good appellate issue.

Most criminal cases aren't won in front of a jury, they are truly battled on appeal.
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I’ve always maintained that if I had fuck you money that I wouldn’t worry about surrounding myself with a bunch of armed guards. I would instead surround myself with the squad of the best lawyers of all different flavors.
 
Stuck said:
On that note can someone explain what THEYRE protesting? The killers are being charged with murder what elsedo they expect to happen? Oh thats right its not about justice. Its about looting and getting paid. Gots to get that moneys.
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“Systemic racism”!!!!!
 
I don’t recall who shot the guy first, but if it was the younger man and his shotgun stopped the threat then pops had no reason to fire a shot and got the murder charge.
 
78bronco460 said:
I don’t recall who shot the guy first, but if it was the younger man and his shotgun stopped the threat then pops had no reason to fire a shot and got the murder charge.
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I think it was the other way. The defense argued that the dad killed the POS so the son didn’t murder him.

I didn’t see it mentioned in the thread but has anyone seen the dead guys back story? Apparently he is pretty crazy and tried to kill their mailman shortly before he got himself killed.
 
DMG said:
I think it was the other way. The defense argued that the dad killed the POS so the son didn’t murder him.

I didn’t see it mentioned in the thread but has anyone seen the dead guys back story? Apparently he is pretty crazy and tried to kill their mailman shortly before he got himself killed.
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I would really like to see a picture of said ventilated mattress dumpster-stuffer.
 
DMG said:
I didn’t see it mentioned in the thread but has anyone seen the dead guys back story? Apparently he is pretty crazy and tried to kill their mailman shortly before he got himself killed.
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This article goes pretty deep into witness statements that show the guy was a piece of shit.
 
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What exactly led up to all that?

Fatty Jr and Sr threw a shit stained mattress on the ground by the dumpster and the hi viz shirt dude got pissed?
 
AKnate said:
What exactly led up to all that?

Fatty Jr and Sr threw a shit stained mattress on the ground by the dumpster and the hi viz shirt dude got pissed?
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I thought is was the other way around. 🤷‍♂️
 
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