What's new
By:
Filters

'25 RAM/Cummins ZF transmission

My old 7.3 use to light off in sub zero temps without being plugged in. I never did the glow plugs or the relay, replacing the battery cables with welding cables made a massive difference. I think I had that turd for 6 or 7 years. Still have the engine in the shop for a "one of these days" project, along with a zf6.

You can't compare an heui diesel starting to an injection pump diesel starting. Heui will always feel like a sluggish turd. Its the nature of attempting to pump oil as thick as molasses. Cat 3126's can be a bitch to start when cold, too.
The mechanical dt466 sitting next to it will start with a flick of the switch down to -10 with no ether. I'm 80% sure it doesn't have glow plugs or a grid heater, either.
 
cj3a said:
Is the grid heater bolt dropping into the intake real or just an internet problem. Asking for a friend with a 6.7
Click to expand...
I know of two for sure. My little brother unscrewed his bolt with two fingers and no tools, said it was hanging by a thread. Friend Paul just yesterday. His grid heater bolt fell all the way out and made it into cylinder #6. If I had one I’d check it. Sounds pretty easy to check.
 
Just great. Is the Banks heater and intake worth it then?
 
cj3a said:
Just great. Is the Banks heater and intake worth it then?
Click to expand...
Brother did the banks kit that is a coil spring heater instead of a plate heater and came with the new intake elbow. I asked him if you can fix it by replacing the bolt and this is what he said. And the attached picture

I’m super glad I did the banks. The bolt melts in half it doesn’t just come loose. I’ll look for a picture
Click to expand...

sddefault.jpeg
 
JR4X said:
Yeah, like triple your electric bill without that timer.
Click to expand...
My work keeps probably 100 or more units plugged in 100% of timeanytime they are in yard,from oct 1st thru april1,i can only imagine the cost.
cj3a said:
Is the grid heater bolt dropping into the intake real or just an internet problem. Asking for a friend with a 6.7
Click to expand...
Yes its real, i have seen one that dropped the bolt into #6 and make a huge mess and i have found two bolts that were pretty close to coming in two and dropping myself.
 
CarterKraft said:
Easy fix in the interim is to just disable the grid heater?
Click to expand...
I don’t know the answer to that. I would think that if you have one that unplugging it would stop any further issues. Then we’d get to see if Arse is right and they’ll start year round without one. If I was going to bet on anything that it would start good with no pre heat my money is on Cummins. It’s summer time now, everything should start with no pre heat.
 
JR4X said:
I don’t know the answer to that. I would think that if you have one that unplugging it would stop any further issues. Then we’d get to see if Arse is right and they’ll start year round without one. If I was going to bet on anything that it would start good with no pre heat my money is on Cummins. It’s summer time now, everything should start with no pre heat.
Click to expand...
On my old 5.9 I never waited to hit the key unless it was 0 or colder. But, it was grumpy at times.

-30 and I had to cycle the key twice...and it was not happy it wasn't plugged in.
 
Probably a case to case basis, my 7.3 didn't have the air intake heater for 15 years, wasn't a problem for me.

Cranky cold start in Taos one year though but it did start.
 
JR4X said:
I don’t know the answer to that. I would think that if you have one that unplugging it would stop any further issues. Then we’d get to see if Arse is right and they’ll start year round without one. If I was going to bet on anything that it would start good with no pre heat my money is on Cummins. It’s summer time now, everything should start with no pre heat.
Click to expand...
Mine definitely won't start in winter without it.
Maybe if it's only 5-10* it'd be ok, but when it's well below zero, not happening.
 
I looked online for a minute and could only find videos of single digits at the coldest and the starters/engines weren't too happy.

I've been told by several the Banks heater isn't great either compared to the stock one.
I got an email this week that the Banks intake kit came out for the C&C trucks.
Not sure what is different between the engines. The pickup truck kit has been available for quite a while and is cheaper.

Sent Banks an email a couple days ago asking and no reply. Sure keep spamming me on buying it though... like multiple emails a day.

It's around $1400 with shipping...not exactly throw away money, least not for me!
 
AKnate said:
I looked online for a minute and could only find videos of single digits at the coldest and the starters/engines weren't too happy.

I've been told by several the Banks heater isn't great either compared to the stock one.
I got an email this week that the Banks intake kit came out for the C&C trucks.
Not sure what is different between the engines. The pickup truck kit has been available for quite a while and is cheaper.

Sent Banks an email a couple days ago asking and no reply. Sure keep spamming me on buying it though... like multiple emails a day.

It's around $1400 with shipping...not exactly throw away money, least not for me!
Click to expand...
$1400 buys a lot of 5/16 bolts :laughing:
 
I must have missed the terribleness on 7.3s. My 01 work truck always started down to -25°f or so (not wind-chill like the camper tard in AK) and my 99 personal truck got a new set of glow plugs and a relay at 132k and maybe 2 more glow plugs and a new GP harness when I did injectors at 200k (lost the fuel pump and didn't catch it), it was still starting fine below zero in north Dakota last I heard at 260k (it would start at -20°f not plugged in but it was pissy) The only one I own that hard starts is my 97 but I suspect that the harness is mediocre in that one as all the glow plugs ohm out when cold and the relay works.

I've never owned a Cummins but working in the oilfield I saw a lot of wouldn't start unless plugged in Dodges in North Dakota and Wyoming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DMG
For stock motors it would seem to make more sense to cut a new plate for that grid heater to remove it, then tap the intake delete plates for the Duramax heater?
 
JR4X said:
I don’t know the answer to that. I would think that if you have one that unplugging it would stop any further issues. Then we’d get to see if Arse is right and they’ll start year round without one. If I was going to bet on anything that it would start good with no pre heat my money is on Cummins. It’s summer time now, everything should start with no pre heat.
Click to expand...
Anecdotal, but the old M939-series Army 5-tons have no grid heater, fuel heater, etc. The A0 and A1 versions had the N/A 855 Cummins NHC-250 and the A2 versions had the 8.3C set to 235 hp. When I was stationed in Korea, one of the duties on the roster was "cold start detail", where you had to get up every 4 hours and start every truck in the motor pool and let them run for an hour, then shut them all off.

They had a "cold start" button that gave it a sniff of ether when cranking, but the bottles never got replaced.

They almost always started, even down to -15f, unless there was some mechanical issue. No, they weren't happy on 15w40 dino oil at those temps, nor trying to light off on JP8, but they would go after a bit of cranking to warm the cylinders via compression strokes.
 
I wonder if you can tag weld the nut to the bolt. I am guessing lock rite won’t work due to heat.
 
I would say the less you use the grid heater the less likely you are to have a problem. I checked my 14 the other day and it seems as tight as the day it came off the assembly line. Of course I live on central california coast. The coldest it gets here is maybe 25deg on a winter morning. I don't normally drive this truck in winter and when I do I don't ever wait for the grid heater to warm up. I would think disconnecting the grid heater relays would be a good way to keep a truck that still has the bolt tight to not ever have an issue. Could always keep the relays in the glove box and replace them for those few times when you venture into the cold. Obviously this really only works for warmer climates.
 
cj3a said:
I wonder if you can tag weld the nut to the bolt. I am guessing lock rite won’t work due to heat.
Click to expand...
If I had one I’d take it apart and look at what comes apart and see what can be done to fix it. A bolt is a couple dollars. I wouldn’t be above drilling/tapping. Upsizing the fastener if possible. Use a grade 8 instead of grade 1, whatever it takes. And if I ruined it, it was already ruined in the first place and go ahead with the replacement after the fact.

The alternator on my dad’s semi has the same issue. The stud that goes through the housing that the big positive cable goes on is a grade one pile of trash that gets literally red hot. Burns through the isolator and welds the stud in half. Those alternators are $700 bucks. After the 3rd one did the same thing we got the parts to fix two of them and made our own stud out of a grade 8 bolt instead the cheese soft stud your supposed to use. The “correct” stud gets smoking hot, if not turn cherry red. A grade 8 bolt in its place doesn’t get hot at all, with my IR temp gun that stud is now only the same temp as the alternator body.
 
JR4X said:
If I had one I’d take it apart and look at what comes apart and see what can be done to fix it. A bolt is a couple dollars. I wouldn’t be above drilling/tapping. Upsizing the fastener if possible. Use a grade 8 instead of grade 1, whatever it takes. And if I ruined it, it was already ruined in the first place and go ahead with the replacement after the fact.

The alternator on my dad’s semi has the same issue. The stud that goes through the housing that the big positive cable goes on is a grade one pile of trash that gets literally red hot. Burns through the isolator and welds the stud in half. Those alternators are $700 bucks. After the 3rd one did the same thing we got the parts to fix two of them and made our own stud out of a grade 8 bolt instead the cheese soft stud your supposed to use. The “correct” stud gets smoking hot, if not turn cherry red. A grade 8 bolt in its place doesn’t get hot at all, with my IR temp gun that stud is now only the same temp as the alternator body.
Click to expand...
Probably not enough clamp load.

We also ran into an issue where the plating used now is actually electrically isolating not conducting....
CAT put out a bulletin, I'll share.
 
DRTDEVL said:
Anecdotal, but the old M939-series Army 5-tons have no grid heater, fuel heater, etc. The A0 and A1 versions had the N/A 855 Cummins NHC-250 and the A2 versions had the 8.3C set to 235 hp. When I was stationed in Korea, one of the duties on the roster was "cold start detail", where you had to get up every 4 hours and start every truck in the motor pool and let them run for an hour, then shut them all off.

They had a "cold start" button that gave it a sniff of ether when cranking, but the bottles never got replaced.

They almost always started, even down to -15f, unless there was some mechanical issue. No, they weren't happy on 15w40 dino oil at those temps, nor trying to light off on JP8, but they would go after a bit of cranking to warm the cylinders via compression strokes.
Click to expand...
I've owned 2 Big Cams, neither started on their own much below freezing.
Had to plug them in for at least 3-4 hours or use ether.
Both had ether injectors.
 
JR4X said:
If I had one I’d take it apart and look at what comes apart and see what can be done to fix it. A bolt is a couple dollars. I wouldn’t be above drilling/tapping. Upsizing the fastener if possible. Use a grade 8 instead of grade 1, whatever it takes. And if I ruined it, it was already ruined in the first place and go ahead with the replacement after the fact.

The alternator on my dad’s semi has the same issue. The stud that goes through the housing that the big positive cable goes on is a grade one pile of trash that gets literally red hot. Burns through the isolator and welds the stud in half. Those alternators are $700 bucks. After the 3rd one did the same thing we got the parts to fix two of them and made our own stud out of a grade 8 bolt instead the cheese soft stud your supposed to use. The “correct” stud gets smoking hot, if not turn cherry red. A grade 8 bolt in its place doesn’t get hot at all, with my IR temp gun that stud is now only the same temp as the alternator body.
Click to expand...
Why would hardness grade affect conductivity?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh