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1988 Samurai Turned Buggy

FleshEater said:
Unfortunately the rear can’t work. I’m going to whip up another 2 driveshafts for spares. It will give me three total.
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What do you mean it won't work?

My drive shafts were like 18" different in length and I was still able to make a square spare that would fit both.

Also, I've always ran Toyota driveshafts and they've heald up to a lot of shit. Good chance you'll never hurt one.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What do you mean it won't work?

My drive shafts were like 18" different in length and I was still able to make a square spare that would fit both.

Also, I've always ran Toyota driveshafts and they've heald up to a lot of shit. Good chance you'll never hurt one.
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Different lengths. The rear shaft is too long and will break shit on full compression. Difference is like 4”, maybe 5”.
 
FleshEater said:
Dude that is with the HP…

It cannot move back. If it moves back it has to go up. Every 1/2” back it has to go a 1/2” or more up. Then the driveshaft binds.
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Elaborate on why it has to go 1/2” up. Looking at the pics, I was going to suggest the same thing. It looks like you have 3-4” of length to gain… but sure I’m missing something
 
FleshEater said:
IMG_4650.jpeg
IMG_4653.jpeg
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You need lots more tube tying in those lower link mounts. That rear chassis tube has no chance Un supported like that.
 
rockota said:
Elaborate on why it has to go 1/2” up. Looking at the pics, I was going to suggest the same thing. It looks like you have 3-4” of length to gain… but sure I’m missing something
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Imagine this, as you move back it’s dropping the mounting position at the pillow block, which brings the shaft closer to the lower link at full droop.

If I hard mounted it I could probably get it right on top of the tube. But no way to do it with the rubber mounts. BUT, I also have so much room between the drive shaft and the link because it’s shorter than the rear. The rear driveshaft worked when it was behind the tube, but it put the sch. 40 right over the lower link.

Opiebennett said:
You need lots more tube tying in those lower link mounts. That rear chassis tube has no chance Un supported like that.
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A .188 wall tube has no chance with 3/8” link mounts that will be getting 1/4” gussets on top? Not to mention it’s a light Toyota axle with SXS tires and a 90HP engine.
 
.188 or not you should tie the back side of the link mount into something. It will eventually fatigue the chassis, or bend that bar if left unsupported.


Put the slip end of the driveshaft at the pinion. Won’t that give you more lower link clearance?
 
Covecrawler said:
.188 or not you should tie the back side of the link mount into something. It will eventually fatigue the chassis, or bend that bar if left unsupported.


Put the slip end of the driveshaft at the pinion. Won’t that give you more lower link clearance?
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I can add gussets to the belly. I just don’t have any room to add tubes from the link mount tube up. I could in the rear, but not the front.

Nothing helps on the front driveshaft. I literally spent almost 12 hours on that trying numerous different ways. If I flip the driveshaft the tube side is into the engine.
 
this is a shitty idea but i am tossing it out there.

move the lower link out side the mid ship shaft. rework for sure. but no drama. again shitty idea.
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chaplinfj60 said:
this is a shitty idea but i am tossing it out there.

move the lower link out side the mid ship shaft. rework for sure. but no drama. again shitty idea.
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Can’t. Sure wish I could, but not possible. Unless my lower link is fine being 7” shorter than my upper. :homer: :laughing:
 
FleshEater said:
I can add gussets to the belly. I just don’t have any room to add tubes from the link mount tube up. I could in the rear, but not the front.
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It's not the up and down, it push and pull from torque wrap, hitting trees, ledges ect.

Maybe a diamond shape to triangulate the center of the link cross member out to the outter belly tubes.
 
Added support to the main tubes.

The rear is not ideal. I landed the driver’s side support dead center. The other is as close to the t-case as I want to get. Still no idea how much this is going to move, if any.

I could start over on the drivetrain mounts, but it’s going to be into my seats. Would also lose my degrees on the engine lean.

Front:

IMG_4664.jpeg


Rear:

IMG_4663.jpeg


These are also going over the lower links.

IMG_4659.png
 
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YotaAtieToo said:
Now you need to tie those tcase mounts into something.
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Yeah, I was going to do that when I did them. Just going to triangulate that dead ended tube back to the center tube. Still trying to keep weight down. If I don’t need Killdozer, I don’t want to build Killdozer. End up with a 4,000lbs. buggy.
 
FleshEater said:
Yeah, I was going to do that when I did them. Just going to triangulate that dead ended tube back to the center tube. Still trying to keep weight down. If I don’t need Killdozer, I don’t want to build Killdozer. End up with a 4,000lbs. buggy.
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Ya, but those will rip off right away as is. Even with 80hp, you have a ton of tq when in low low.

You don't always need to build heavy to be strong, just need to use strong designs.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Ya, but those will rip off right away as is. Even with 80hp, you have a ton of tq when in low low.

You don't always need to build heavy to be strong, just need to use strong designs.
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Well that is true.

I’m starting to wonder if I shouldn’t ditch the support tubes and just weld 1/4” AR500 plate to the bottom.

Other idea with all the support tubes was .120 aluminum with 3/8 UHMW.

Not sure which route to take. Sourcing AR500 isn’t easy locally.
 
Fwiw

1/4" steel plate is 10.2 lbs per sqft (ar may be slightly heavier)

1/8" aluminum is 1.8 lbs per sqft

3/8" uhmw is 2.25 lbs per sqft

Personally I think 1/4" ar would be over kill if it was all welded in. 10g (slightly more than 1/8" would probably be great.

If you did that, you could probably ditch all the bracing except that one side to side brace halfway between the link x members.

The tricky part would be access to things like driveshaft bolts and tcase mounts.

Also If you did do uhmw, I don't think aluminum backing would be necessary and is the lightest option, but doesn't solve your bracing issue.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Fwiw

1/4" steel plate is 10.2 lbs per sqft (ar may be slightly heavier)

1/8" aluminum is 1.8 lbs per sqft

3/8" uhmw is 2.25 lbs per sqft

Personally I think 1/4" ar would be over kill if it was all welded in. 10g (slightly more than 1/8" would probably be great.

If you did that, you could probably ditch all the bracing except that one side to side brace halfway between the link x members.

The tricky part would be access to things like driveshaft bolts and tcase mounts.

Also If you did do uhmw, I don't think aluminum backing would be necessary and is the lightest option, but doesn't solve your bracing issue.
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You’re thinking the bracing with UHMW would be fine? My biggest concern is a hard hit right below the t-case. It could be bad. There’s not a TON of room between the bottom and the case.

I don’t love the idea of welding…but I’m just trying to keep the weight down as much as I can. The access through the sides is pretty incredible. Just need drain plug holes and it’d probably be okay. A removable skid plate would be ideal, and superior IMO.

1/4” AR500 bolted on would be nice to be one and done, no concerns, but this belly bottom is around 3’x3’ so that is a ton of weight.

OR…I just try to re-work my drivetrain mounts and see if I can eek it up enough to fully clear the 1.75” tube.

EDIT: looks like 1/4” AR500 would be 91lbs. So that’s not terrible.
 
i like your idea of steel plate. not 1/4 inch maybe 3/6 also dont want it welded. weld these orang tabs to the top of the lower tube. put weld nuts on the back. then get your full plate you desire for the bottom. then weld a 3 inch strips to each side of that plate and let it go over the out side edge of the tube. all the hits that happen dont impact the bolts because they are out of harms way. you just added thickness to the lower tubes also. kinda a rude shitty drawing but hope you get the idea.
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FleshEater said:
You’re thinking the bracing with UHMW would be fine? My biggest concern is a hard hit right below the t-case. It could be bad. There’s not a TON of room between the bottom and the case.
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I think the tcase mounts need something else.

But the uhmw it's self would be fine without the aluminum.

FleshEater said:
I don’t love the idea of welding…but I’m just trying to keep the weight down as much as I can. The access through the sides is pretty incredible. Just need drain plug holes and it’d probably be okay. A removable skid plate would be ideal, and superior IMO.
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I get it, I like the idea of welding the plate on to add a ton of strength.

FleshEater said:
1/4” AR500 bolted on would be nice to be one and done, no concerns, but this belly bottom is around 3’x3’ so that is a ton of weight.
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1/4" is overkill.

FleshEater said:
OR…I just try to re-work my drivetrain mounts and see if I can eek it up enough to fully clear the 1.75” tube.

EDIT: looks like 1/4” AR500 would be 91lbs. So that’s not terrible.
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What about a piece of plate just under the tcase welded in. Tie the tcase mounts and link mounts all together. But then uhmw everything else.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
i like your idea of steel plate. not 1/4 inch maybe 3/6 also dont want it welded. weld these orang tabs to the top of the lower tube. put weld nuts on the back. then get your full plate you desire for the bottom. then weld a 3 inch strips to each side of that plate and let it go over the out side edge of the tube. all the hits that happen dont impact the bolts because they are out of harms way. you just added thickness to the lower tubes also. kinda a rude shitty drawing but hope you get the idea.
1731431454833.png

1731431483106.png
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This is what will probably be done. It will also allow me to add protection to my pillow block mounts.

Byro’s buddy said he cracked 1/2” UHMW on his belly with steel backing it. This is probably a better safe than sorry situation.
 
FleshEater said:
This is what will probably be done. It will also allow me to add protection to my pillow block mounts.

Byro’s buddy said he cracked 1/2” UHMW on his belly with steel backing it. This is probably a better safe than sorry situation.
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There is a million factors in why it could have cracked. I'm betting it was a much heavier rig too.

All the sxs kits just run uhmw no backing.

I think something more rigid under the tcase is a good idea though.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
There is a million factors in why it could have cracked. I'm betting it was a much heavier rig too.

All the sxs kits just run uhmw no backing.

I think something more rigid under the tcase is a good idea though.
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I’m going to look tonight. I might just bite the bullet and move my whole drivetrain up. It will eliminate the t-case issue and another issue that’s been looming over my head for awhile. Engine oil pan protection.

IMG_4665.jpeg
IMG_4666.jpeg
IMG_4667.jpeg
IMG_4668.jpeg
 
Could you maybe atracha small oil pan skid to the top of the link mounts, run it up past the sump, angle up and dead end at the crank pulley with some braces going up to the chassis from there?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Could you maybe atracha small oil pan skid to the top of the link mounts, run it up past the sump, angle up and dead end at the crank pulley with some braces going up to the chassis from there?
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Maybe…Another thing I have to look at. Might end up looking goofy/retarded. Not trying to be all about looks…but it has to be a factor. :laughing:
 
I'm going to disagree with Jeff, I think unsupported UHMW is a poor choice, I also think while a welded AR plate provides some shear, the tube he added in belly are well worth the weight penalty.

Bolt on AR if you can find it and stomach the cost, or 3/16 or 1/4" mild steel if you have to. The steel will be plenty slippery and won't groove up or peel off.

I think my buggy belly is like 2'x3', and add an extra square for the oil pan skid.

7 sq ft at 10.2 lbs per square is 71.4lbs for 1/4" plate
7sq ft at 7.65 lbs per square is 53-1/2lbs for 3/16 plate.
7 sq ft at ~4lbs per square for 1/8" AL and UHMW is ~30 Lbs, but need more fasteners.

My 2017 buggy is on its original 3/16 mild steel bolted belly skid. It's not flat anymore when it's not bolted to the car, but comes of and goes back on just fine.

If sourcing material is tough, build something and go wheeling. can always buy more exotic light weight things later if 40lbs is the difference you need.
 
You think he would have a problem with uhmw without a full backing skid? Does 1/8" aluminum even make much difference?

My thought was like a 8-12" wide strip of steel down the middle, tie the link mounts and tcase mounts together. Then uhmw over that. Wouldn't leave many unsupported spans?
 
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