1956 Cessna 182

[Bacho]

How do you like working on those RJs?

Currently I am an MX Sup. I enjoy it most days. The CRJ is pretty easy to work on.

Been unable to get back on this over X-mas break. I had the parking lot repaved over the summer and started getting some flooding issues. Thought I had that licked. Had ALOT of rain this past week and found the shop flooded again.

 

[Form&function]

Sweet project,are you reusing the 470?

 

[Bacho]

I have not yet made that decision. I think the engine will be the last step. While its certainly a big ticket item its also the easiest problem to solve.

Originally I was planning to purchase a mid-time engine and prop and sell these as cores. That would be the cheapest/fastest option.

Now the thought has come up that I could easily purchase something worse off than what I have. I have started to think about doing an in-house overhaul on what I have (the 0-470 and not prop). Dead simple engine to rebuild. Probably cost $10-15k but would have serious extra value down the road.

I have also wondered if I should re-fresh mags and try running it the way it is and see what happens. I am trying to determine the real downsides of that idea. The major risk would be possibly hurting the crank.

This project has opened my eyes pretty good on how much damage can be under the surface. I think I am pretty far from being willing to fly behind this engine without a tear down.

 

[Bacho]

Weekends over the Christmas were busy and I didn't get much time in the shop. Yesterday I managed to get back in there. I got the trim strap fully drilled, de-burred and counter sunk.

I planned to primer most of the parts I reworked for additional corrosion protection. I had some shelf life expired epoxy primer from work I had planned on using. I found all of the solids firmly separated an attempt to mix it quickly ruined a pair of shoes. Said screw it and used rattle can zinc phosphate primer.

So all parts are now primed and ready to install. I want to use some sealant for added corrosion protection in the stainless firewall to aluminum interface. I again have plenty of sealant from work, unfortunately its the “hot” variety with minimum cure time. Its pretty much cured within an hour which leaves minimal time for assembly. Im going to experiment with using half the hardener and seeing what happens.

No time in the shop meant no time for the 172 either. Here is a picture of it from the day I discovered the 182.

I went to go take it around the patten last night and found the brake leaking. Easy to repair but I didnt have my tools or a jacket with me. These calipers are single puck with a standard o-ring thats rather exposed. This is a common failure.

 

[Donk]

So then how does scrappy work? Experimental?

A legit scrappy can issue parts with a Form 8130 which certifies that the part is serviceable for aircraft use and on that form will be listed the hours/cycles the part has done and time remaining if it's a life limited item. Not sure on the exact qualifications a scrappy needs state side but I'd expect an A&P minimum and probably some sort of FAA approval.
Another option (again not sure of the exact FAA rules) here in Europe, inter-fleet parts transfer can be covered by an A&P following an approved robbery procedure without the need for raising an 8130. So if the OP had a parts plane he could sign off any parts as being serviceable (after doing the appropriate checks) and use them without issue.



Another one following .

OP If you need any input regarding avionics drop me a PM and I'll help if I can. I've done a avoinic few retrofits now and am currently doing a GDI/GNC/GTR/GTX installation in an old cherokee, when real work isn't getting in the way

 

[Bacho]

A legit scrappy can issue parts with a Form 8130 which certifies that the part is serviceable for aircraft use and on that form will be listed the hours/cycles the part has done and time remaining if it's a life limited item. Not sure on the exact qualifications a scrappy needs state side but I'd expect an A&P minimum and probably some sort of FAA approval.
Another option (again not sure of the exact FAA rules) here in Europe, inter-fleet parts transfer can be covered by an A&P following an approved robbery procedure without the need for raising an 8130. So if the OP had a parts plane he could sign off any parts as being serviceable (after doing the appropriate checks) and use them without issue.



Another one following .

OP If you need any input regarding avionics drop me a PM and I'll help if I can. I've done a avoinic few retrofits now and am currently doing a GDI/GNC/GTR/GTX installation in an old cherokee, when real work isn't getting in the way

I think he was talking about an entirely different scrappy.

Thanks. Because the aircraft currently has no avionics, and instruments with no or minimal value the Dynon or Garmin glass systems appear to make a whole lot more sense than they normally would. I haven’t made this decision yet but Dynon probably the way to go if I have to buy new, The main reason being Garmin will not sell to me direct.

Used Garmin products on eBay are a possibility. But that might get sticky if I wanted to upgrade it along the way with an auto pilot or such.

I haven’t yet figured out how I’m gonna pay for any of that though.

 

[Donk]

Thanks. Because the aircraft currently has no avionics, and instruments with no or minimal value the Dynon or Garmin glass systems appear to make a whole lot more sense than they normally would. I haven’t made this decision yet but Dynon probably the way to go if I have to buy new, The main reason being Garmin will not sell to me direct.

Used Garmin products on eBay are a possibility. But that might get sticky if I wanted to upgrade it along the way with an auto pilot or such.

I haven’t yet figured out how I’m gonna pay for any of that though.

I'd be tempted to stick with mostly steam driven, maybe throw in a G5/G500 if you're feeling posh. Nothing wrong with the older GNS430/530 units for nav/com/GPS, GTX330 for the transponder and maybe a KAP140 (used in the newer 182s) for the autopilot. Do you need it to be IFR capable?
When I was playing with new Seneca Vs they were using an EFD1000 made by a company called Aspen as their backup display. It was a pretty nifty and capable little unit designed to fit in 2 regular instrument holes with it's own built-in battery in case of total power failure.

 

[Bacho]

Been down with Covid and haven‘t really made progress that shows up with in pictures.

I did get my hands on a blast cabinet! Pretty excited about this. I have no media for it but plan on walnut shells for removing corrosion from these rather delicate parts. Some miscellaneous parts for it are due in tomorrow.

So I thought I had my new skin finished. Exactly how the counter sinks were going to work for some of these rivets has been bothering me. The skin is .032” thick and some of these rivets have heads .055” thick. Ideally you do not counter sink the full thickness of the skin, even leaving the rivets the maximum .010” proud these would still were way thicker than skin.

So I spent about two days trying to research a factory drawing which would illustrate the factory installed rivet sizes. It’s quite possible these rivets have been upsized once or twice over the past 70 years. If I could have verified that for certain I could go with a reduced head rivet which would alleviate these issues without losing strength. I was unsuccessful and looking at photos of other aircraft it appeared that others have the same sizes in the skin as I do. While doing that research I noticed the newer airplanes use universal head rivets (domed) which are not countersunk. Ultimately decided to forget about trying to flush rivet the skin on. Using universal results will be superior strength at a very very slight loss of theoretical speed.

So that decided I scrapped the skin I had been working on and started over. This time I decided to transfer each hole from the old skin to the new one and pilot drill them with a #40. There were a handful that were oblong and I could not transfer well. Then I use the 3/32 clecos to attach the skin and back-drilled to #30. This seem to have worked out really well the skin fit very well.

I’m anxious to prime the skin and rivet it on but I think I decided that the tunnel half needs to come out and get blasted first.

 

[Donk]

FWIW I'm currently playing with Cessna CJs and the things are lousy with reduced head counter sunk rivets (NAS1097). The SRM also permits use of standard counter rivets that are then milled flush.

I've assisted with a firewall change in a 2000's 182T and might still have some photos floating about that would show a bit of detail if that's any help?

 

[Bacho]

FWIW I'm currently playing with Cessna CJs and the things are lousy with reduced head counter sunk rivets (NAS1097). The SRM also permits use of standard counter rivets that are then milled flush.

I've assisted with a firewall change in a 2000's 182T and might still have some photos floating about that would show a bit of detail if that's any help?

The 1097s also very common in the CRJ.

I am assuming the 182 is universal heads in the area? By newer 182s I was referring to 1962ish

Got the blast cabinet running yesterday. Walnut doesn't seem aggressive enough to remove heavy corrosion, but looks like a great pain prep tool.

 

[Form&function]

I wouldn't worry about the flush rivets on that particular plane. Might concern me on a laminar flow rv or something like that but a 182 boundary layer is kinda a mute point.

 

[Form&function]

And I use small glass bead for corrosion.

 

[Leadfoot21]

Awesome thread very interesting ! Keep up the great work !

 

[Donk]

The 1097s also very common in the CRJ.

I am assuming the 182 is universal heads in the area? By newer 182s I was referring to 1962ish

Got the blast cabinet running yesterday. Walnut doesn't seem aggressive enough to remove heavy corrosion, but looks like a great pain prep tool.

I managed to get out for a wander today and had a quick look at a 1980s 182R and a few newer 182Ts. They all had countersunk rivets most of the way round, the only mush heads are on the belly. They also looked to be 1/8" rivets, are you sure it's supposed to be 0.032" and not a 0.040" skin?

 

[azdirt3.0]

Glad you're documenting this. I have been keeping an eye out for a similar project but won't be able to get into one until my vehicle project and side work gets finished. I love the straight tail 182s for a tricycle gear plane.

 

[Bacho]

I managed to get out for a wander today and had a quick look at a 1980s 182R and a few newer 182Ts. They all had countersunk rivets most of the way round, the only mush heads are on the belly. They also looked to be 1/8" rivets, are you sure it's supposed to be 0.032" and not a 0.040" skin?

Well, I removed .032”, no doubt about that. Below is a 79 model.

Spent the day removing the tunnel and firewall doublers to clean and paint them before putting the skin back on.

 

[Bacho]

Glad you're documenting this. I have been keeping an eye out for a similar project but won't be able to get into one until my vehicle project and side work gets finished. I love the straight tail 182s for a tricycle gear plane.

I really want to convert to conventional gear. I cannot come up with any practical reason to do that though. I must be getting old, things like that never stopped me before.

 

[azdirt3.0]

I really want to convert to conventional gear. I cannot come up with any practical reason to do that though. I must be getting old, things like that never stopped me before.

That would be killer but also would probably be nice to just get this back in the air for cheaper/less work

 

[Bacho]

The tunnel structure had lots of minor corrosion and glue remains. I decided to remove it to blast ans treat. That turned into lots of work! I decided I should only remove half of the tunnel at a time. I have concerns over keeping all of this structure straight. Pulling the tunnel meant the firewall doubler might as come out and get treated as well.
The flap handle assembly came out as well and has been blasted/primed. Below is the elevator trim structre for an example of what I was dealing with.

While painting this I used an expired epoxy primer leftover from work. I found some runs in it in problematic areas. Turns out I couldn‘t hardly blast the paint back off. Took a grinder with a scotch brite wheel. This paint was 1000x better than the rattle can primer I had been using. There was nothing to do but take everything I had rattle canned apart and start over.

Then I finally got to do some perm re-assembly, which felt great.

 

[Bacho]

So the last item to sort between buttoning on the skin is the upper engine mount stringer. I purchased a used one and had planned to use it. Unfortunatly its not in as good of shape as my original. Some of the rivet holes were also oversized. The reason I need a new one is the bracket on the original is corroded. I decided I should just make a new bracket. Its made from 7075 T-6. The original shaped extrusion is not something I could find. I purchased a bar of 7075 and started carving. I should note that I have very little time on my mill, this took half a day.

The best path forward appeared to be to re-create the extrusion and cut the bracket from there. This required longer end-mills than I had on hand (my mill tooling is minimal) a trip to the store got me some new end mills and a mist coolant system and I went to town. The below picture shows some chatter issues I was having cutting 2” deep with the 5/16 cutter.

Eventually I re-created the extrusion shape.

Then I ran out of time. The plan is to cut this out on the mitre box saw. The legs of the bracket will need bent to shape. I will try and NDT this at work prior to install.

 

[Bacho]

More work on the engine mount fitting. Went with high precision cutting methods.

Then the fitting put into place and drilled for rivet holes.

Then it got an alodine treatment while the rest of stringer got hit with primer.

Finally installed in the stringer.

I have run into a snag though, turns out my bucking bars are not enough for the 3/16 rivets in the tunnel. Bought a 3lb tungsten bar on ebay this morning for $130 (about a 1/3rd retail ) I considered using screws there but will give the rivets a solid try.

 

[FC4X4]

A TCG (Triple Chip Grind) blade might work better than the ATB (Alternating Top Bevel) blade for aluminum.

 

[Donk]

I have run into a snag though, turns out my bucking bars are not enough for the 3/16 rivets in the tunnel. Bought a 3lb tungsten bar on ebay this morning for $130 (about a 1/3rd retail ) I considered using screws there but will give the rivets a solid try.

Some absolutely cracking work so far

3/16 rivets are fun what size rivet gun are you using? Maybe Hiloks instead?

 

[Bacho]

Some absolutely cracking work so far

3/16 rivets are fun what size rivet gun are you using? Maybe Hiloks instead?

Thanks, I have very little hand on sheet metal experience. I am learning for sure.

I have a 3x gun and a couple unknown guns. I had ASSumed they were stronger but after a test I am not sure.

Hi-loks might be in the works if I can find some on Ebay. The bracket in question connects the nosewheel mount to the tunnel. I am still undecided if the nose wheel mount is going back on.

 

[Donk]

Thanks, I have very little hand on sheet metal experience. I am learning for sure.

I have a 3x gun and a couple unknown guns. I had ASSumed they were stronger but after a test I am not sure.

Hi-loks might be in the works if I can find some on Ebay. The bracket in question connects the nosewheel mount to the tunnel. I am still undecided if the nose wheel mount is going back on.

Can you get your hands on a 4x? You'll notice the difference, IME smaller guns don't hit hard enough and you work harden the rivet before it forms properly.

 

[Bacho]

Can you get your hands on a 4x? You'll notice the difference, IME smaller guns don't hit hard enough and you work harden the rivet before it forms properly.

Once the bucking bar arrives I’ll try out the ones I have on a test piece and see what happens. I’m pretty sure I can borrow one from somebody at work If required.

 

[Donk]

Once the bucking bar arrives I’ll try out the ones I have on a test piece and see what happens. I’m pretty sure I can borrow one from somebody at work If required.

I've also put them down with hand squeezers in a pinch....
FC the tungsten works, if not then a 4x FTW

 

[Bacho]

Back on it today, I got the new skin shot on. I used some ratchet straps to pull the skin down around the firewall. The results were a little less than I had been hoping for. I was concerned about the skin not laying so flat. It had hard to compare to the rest of the plane with shiny compared to covered in old paint. Consulted some friends who said it looks great and quit worrying about it. For the next side I might take the skin to a roller and see if that works better.

Got my wife over to help shoot rivets. I have a handful to replace but that went well.

Now for repeating all of this on the next size. I know its hard to tell I loathe pulling out those old avionics. 99% of this is all trash, but I feel just snipping everything is not appropriate.

The engine mount fitting on this side is also corroded.

 

[Donk]

Back on it today, I got the new skin shot on. I used some ratchet straps to pull the skin down around the firewall. The results were a little less than I had been hoping for. I was concerned about the skin not laying so flat. It had hard to compare to the rest of the plane with shiny compared to covered in old paint. Consulted some friends who said it looks great and quit worrying about it. For the next side I might take the skin to a roller and see if that works better.

Got my wife over to help shoot rivets. I have a handful to replace but that went well.

Now for repeating all of this on the next size. I know its hard to tell I loathe pulling out those old avionics. 99% of this is all trash, but I feel just snipping everything is not appropriate.

The engine mount fitting on this side is also corroded.

Stupid question of the day.... Should the firewall-skin lap not be wet assembled with something prc1440 or dapco 2100?

Re: the avionics sometimes it's just easier to cut the lot out an start again. It's certainly easier for future if you lose the redundant wiring.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Stupid question of the day.... Should the firewall-skin lap not be wet assembled with something prc1440 or dapco 2100?

When I was in GA we never did a seam that didn't have something in it, not even for aluminim to aluminum. We used some variant of CorrosionX.

But we only had to climb high enough to put the windshield above the treetops to see the ocean, so that might have had a lot to do with it.