1000 yards

[Poke]

I pocket up a REM 700 6.5 creedmoor Enhanced off the shelf. It’s been ok at 300 and 500. We shoot prone.

So a dropped a Razor on it. Gen 2 4.5-27 x 56

Then a we shot at 1000 and I was hitting a 2x3’ plate maybe 1 of every 6 shots. My buddies did better with 6BRA and everything else they had. I’ve only shot Factory match gold hybrids with it.

Then I put a 800 yard range in at my house and was getting a 14” group, if you call that a group. My buddy shot a 3” group.

So I ordered a 26” threaded Remage Criterion barrel. A bored retired friend is going to install and bed it. Then he’s going to make up a load test and bring me back a recipe for the rounds.

I do not have a reloading set up. I want to keep working on this rifle slowly and make it a true 1000 yard gun where I can memorize the dope, etc. maybe use it on long range whitetail when I’m confident in the dope.

I do love my 10mm hand guns but don’t shoot much cause if cost. I do have a target 10mm I hunt with using Buffalo bore.

Are there entry lever reloaders that can do pistol and rifle that will work for long range tolerances? The guys I shoot with are expert reloaders. Or should I just horse trade my buddies for loads?

 

[aron82]

The brand of press isn't that important. A basic rcbs or Lee will work just fine. Where you want to focus is in brass prep and powder charge consistency. Bullet consistency is also important.
Spending on a good scale is more important than the press.
Might be best to barter with friends for reloads and instruction in how they do it. Just about anyone can throw together satisfactory hunting loads with minimal case prep.
I got out of long range shooting, found it was too tedious for me.

 

[78bronco460]

14” is in the 20” 10 ring on an NRA LR target at 800 yds. I would call that a group.

 

[Poke]

14” is in the 20” 10 ring on an NRA LR target at 800 yds. I would call that a group.

Huh. Cool, well it didn’t impress me probably because I don’t know any better. At 1000 my buddies expect to hit an 18” target pretty much all the time.

The 3” group at 800 was fun to watch. I was impressed with that. I don’t expect that but I do expect to produce 6-8” groups. I’d be content with that. But like I said, I’m new so I don’t know if that’s amazing, mediocre, or sub par.

 

[total newb]

So much comes into play and that distance
Technique, conditions, equipment, and and on.

How many rounds did you have thtough it?

 

[Poke]

So much comes into play and that distance
Technique, conditions, equipment, and and on.

How many rounds did you have thtough it?

The old barrel? Less than 200.

We shoot over valleys from hill to hill. The wind is nutty sometimes.

I think we we’re aiming or adjusting the scopes 10’ left one day.

I’m learning mil’s but can’t do them in my head yet.

 

[Poke]

So much comes into play and that distance
Technique, conditions, equipment, and and on.

How many rounds did you have thtough it?

Oh. My break lossened and was spinning a little each shot unbeknownst to me for a bit. I shot a perfect 3 foot circle around the target. Guys said it was harmonics, every 4th shot it was back on target.

 

[Stuck]

Why would you replace the barrel without really having shot it in or having a good load worked up on your gun? For a first timer shooting a 14" group at 800 yds with box ammo is respectable. If thats why you replaced the barrel you threw money away for nothing.

I think its funnier than hell when new "precision" shooters start buying doodads for their gun without knowing what goes in to real accuracy or what their rifle is actually capable of. To further that why are you going to have a bored retired guy install and bed the barrel? Why not have an actual gunsmith familiar with precision shooting bed the action and leave the barrel floating? If he actually recomended bedding the barrel and not the action, find someone else.


Anyway my point is dont just go bolting shit on and changing things on you rifle without knowing whats happening and why

 

[Stuck]

The 3” group at 800 was fun to watch. I was impressed with that. I don’t expect that but I do expect to produce 6-8” groups. I’d be content with that. But like I said, I’m new so I don’t know if that’s amazing, mediocre, or sub par.

It definatley aint mediocre or sub par. The rest depends. Was it one 3 shot 3" group at 800yds? Thats good. Multiple 3 shot 3" groups? Thats pretty good. Or multiple 5 or 10 shot 3" groups. Thats really fucking good. 8ish"'s is one MOA at 800 yds. So a repeatable 3" group at that distance is a sub .5MOA gun. Most of your "factory" gun makers brag if its a 1moa gun.

 

[Roc Doc]

The old barrel? Less than 200.

We shoot over valleys from hill to hill. The wind is nutty sometimes.

I think we we’re aiming or adjusting the scopes 10’ left one day.

I’m learning mil’s but can’t do them in my head yet.

Remember, a mil is 1/1000 of any distance. 1000 yards, one mil is one yard or 36" 100 yds 3.6", 200 7.2", etc. easy peasy.

You need to have MV, bullet BC for the rounds you're shooting and current atmospherics, or you're going to be guessing. I use a Kestrel, but many of the phone apps are pretty good too, Shooter, Strelok Pro, etc..

Creedmoor Sports sells a kick ass scale for $300 that is just as accurate as my FX-120 balance. It comes with calibration weights and is reasonably fast. Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 Precision Reloading Scale

That dark spot at your feet is the rabbit hole. Welcome.

 

[Roc Doc]

It definatley aint mediocre or sub par. The rest depends. Was it one 3 shot 3" group at 800yds? Thats good. Multiple 3 shot 3" groups? Thats pretty good. Or multiple 5 or 10 shot 3" groups. Thats really fucking good. 8ish"'s is one MOA at 800 yds. So a repeatable 3" group at that distance is a sub .5MOA gun. Most of your "factory" gun makers brag if its a 1moa gun.

It drives me nuts when someone posts up a single 3 shot group, yay, you got lucky. Now do that 4 more times and we'll talk.

 

[Stuck]

It drives me nuts when someone posts up a single 3 shot group, yay, you got lucky. Now do that 4 more times and we'll talk.

Yup. I mean if you pull your gun straight out of the case, fire 3 shots and its a 3" group at 800yds. Ill be a little impressed. If you been shooting all day and show me 1, 3" group not so much.

 

[krttrkllr]

Remember, a mil is 1/1000 of any distance. 1000 yards, one mil is one yard or 36" 100 yds 3.6", 200 7.2", etc. easy peasy.

You need to have MV, bullet BC for the rounds you're shooting and current atmospherics, or you're going to be guessing. I use a Kestrel, but many of the phone apps are pretty good too, Shooter, Strelok Pro, etc..

Creedmoor Sports sells a kick ass scale for $300 that is just as accurate as my FX-120 balance. It comes with calibration weights and is reasonably fast. Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 Precision Reloading Scale

That dark spot at your feet is the rabbit hole. Welcome.

I use a kestrel with the weather meter also. When I first got it around 700 yds. It started having me dial too much elevation. At 1200 yds. it had me dialing 2 MOA too high. I did an update last year and has improved. Not quite perfect, but better.

 

[Roc Doc]

I use a kestrel with the weather meter also. When I first got it around 700 yds. It started having me dial too much elevation. At 1200 yds. it had me dialing 2 MOA too high. I did an update last year and has improved. Not quite perfect, but better.

That's why you have to do your MV cal.

 

[Halffastford]

Have your friend shoot the gun before you rebarrel it. I'm betting it's not the equipment. And you're seriously going to bed over a full length aluminum bedding block? You should be more concerned with milling it out to fit the new barrel nut. They aren't small by any stretch of the imagination. And while that ammo is good, I'd try others first. 143 eldms are a good start for just about every rifle in that caliber.

 

[Poke]

Why would you replace the barrel without really having shot it in or having a good load worked up on your gun? For a first timer shooting a 14" group at 800 yds with box ammo is respectable. If thats why you replaced the barrel you threw money away for nothing.

I think its funnier than hell when new "precision" shooters start buying doodads for their gun without knowing what goes in to real accuracy or what their rifle is actually capable of. To further that why are you going to have a bored retired guy install and bed the barrel? Why not have an actual gunsmith familiar with precision shooting bed the action and leave the barrel floating? If he actually recomended bedding the barrel and not the action, find someone else.


Anyway my point is dont just go bolting shit on and changing things on you rifle without knowing whats happening and why

Your assumptions are hilarious. Now I see why you won the ban pole. Go spew elsewhere kiddo.

 

[Stuck]

Your assumptions are hilarious. Now I see why you won the ban pole. Go spew elsewhere kiddo.

Ok douchebag. I based the answer off the stupidity in your post.

 

[Roc Doc]

Have your friend shoot the gun before you rebarrel it. I'm betting it's not the equipment. And you're seriously going to bed over a full length aluminum bedding block? You should be more concerned with milling it out to fit the new barrel nut. They aren't small by any stretch of the imagination. And while that ammo is good, I'd try others first. 143 eldms are a good start for just about every rifle in that caliber.

If you can find it, the Berger 140g ammo is amazing for a.factory load, and once its been shot, you have that primo Lapua brass.

 

[Leadfoot21]

You don’t mention having shot it much at that distance . When I first shot out to 800 or anywhere past 500 for that matter it took an incredible amount of self control and controlled breathing/movements to get accurate . I still remember the first time and how far off my scope would get by the slightest movement despite the equipment I was shooting with/on. Keep practicing and leave your buddies at home and focus .

 

[krttrkllr]

That's why you have to do your MV cal.

More input on my end is needed for sure. Wish I had more time to shoot. I thought having a range in the backyard would help but hasn't. Also need to pick up a new chronograph. Mine was giving me issues last November.

 

[Roc Doc]

You don’t mention having shot it much at that distance . When I first shot out to 800 or anywhere past 500 for that matter it took an incredible amount of self control and controlled breathing/movements to get accurate . I still remember the first time and how far off my scope would get by the slightest movement despite the equipment I was shooting with/on. Keep practicing and leave your buddies at home and focus .

Yup. And dry practice is as good as live fire for building fundamentals, body position, natural point of aim, breathing, trigger press, follow through, etc.

More input on my end is needed for sure. Wish I had more time to shoot. I thought having a range in the backyard would help but hasn't. Also need to pick up a new chronograph. Mine was giving me issues last November.

MagnetoSpeed works well. Spend the dollars and get the V3, it's worth the extra over the Sporter.

 

[Poke]

You don’t mention having shot it much at that distance . When I first shot out to 800 or anywhere past 500 for that matter it took an incredible amount of self control and controlled breathing/movements to get accurate . I still remember the first time and how far off my scope would get by the slightest movement despite the equipment I was shooting with/on. Keep practicing and leave your buddies at home and focus .

Not a ton over 500, minimal. But I do have a few accurized .22’s for NRL 22.

Accurate shooting isn’t totally foreign to me. My deer lever gun is good to 500. The dope on that gun is in my head and it’s a very long hard crunchy trigger.

I certainly need more trigger time on my range. Too much coffee and watching the scope shake didn’t help last time .

 

[krttrkllr]

Yup. And dry practice is as good as live fire for building fundamentals, body position, natural point of aim, breathing, trigger press, follow through, etc.

MagnetoSpeed works well. Spend the dollars and get the V3, it's worth the extra over the Sporter.

Do you know anything about Lab Radar? My brother in-law has one and really likes it. I mostly shoot suppressed if that makes a difference between the 2.

 

[Roc Doc]

Do you know anything about Lab Radar? My brother in-law has one and really likes it. I mostly shoot suppressed if that makes a difference between the 2.

I have one but I fucked it up by shooting too close with a muzzle brake. It has the advantage of not touching the barrel like a magspeed (although there are workarounds for that), but I found it finikey. I know some guys love them, and a lot of the ELR guys use them on every shot. Lots of YouTube videos on them.

 

[Texas97]

Your assumptions are hilarious. Now I see why you won the ban pole. Go spew elsewhere kiddo.

He's not wrong actually.

But 14" at 800 yards is just under 2 moa. You didn't mention anything about wind, but that 6.5 manbun should be easy to cut the wind at 800, it's more forgiving than it's parent case.

Reading wind is the hard part, and making adjustments for your misses.

Before I replaced any barrel I'd work on breathing, shooting fundamentals and dry firing about 1000 times.

 

[Poke]

He's not wrong actually.

But 14" at 800 yards is just under 2 moa. You didn't mention anything about wind, but that 6.5 manbun should be easy to cut the wind at 800, it's more forgiving than it's parent case.

Reading wind is the hard part, and making adjustments for your misses.

Before I replaced any barrel I'd work on breathing, shooting fundamentals and dry firing about 1000 times.

His assumptions about the bored retiree. They were way off. That guy does all his own work and regularly shoots a mile. He’s an expert while my accurized gun smith built .22 is a POS. Guns smiths arnt all good.

I’m reading all this and taking it in.

What I am surprised to see is multiple people implying that a factory 20” barrel could be fine making a 26” Criterion unnecessary or not an upgrade.

 

[Texas97]

His assumptions about the bored retiree. They were way off. That guy does all his own work and regularly shoots a mile. He’s an expert while my accurized gun smith built .22 is a POS. Guns smiths arnt all good.

I’m reading all this and taking it in.

What I am surprised to see is multiple people implying that a factory 20” barrel could be fine making a 26” Criterion unnecessary or not an upgrade.

Well you didn't specify what you were mad at Stick about so that's on you. And it's also on you how you downplayed your buddy's skills. I think I'd have called him a " very competent gunsmith friend who I trust" rather than " bored retiree".

You are very right in gunsmiths arent all good and you are underselling your friend.

As to the gun and the barrel, I am admittedly not a fan of modern Remington quality. But what many people are saying here is you haven't even tried to make this barrel shoot well yet. And we don't know that it's not you who is the weakest link. Your gun may not like a certain bullet weight but I'd be threshing that out at 100 and 200 yards trying for tiny groups, using rock solid rests and trying to remove my self at the factor in it's inaccuracy.

It's your gun and you do you but it could as easily be you who is the problem and not the gun. I think people here are trying to help you not spend time and money rebarreling a perfectly fine oem barrel and you still can't hit at 800-1000 yards

 

[Poke]

Got it. My heads in a different place. I want it to be me and know it’s not the equipment.

He’s going to bring me back a gun and load recipe that he’s tack driving with. Then the guns out of the equation and it’s just me and the weather.

That’s why I was asking specifically about reloading. Do I start or just farm it out.


And to answer an earlier question. After 3-4 shots getting the scope set for the distance and conditions. The next 3 rounds were a 3” group. The same guy/gun had a 2.5” 5 shot group at 500 few weeks easier, it is not his most accurate gun.

These boys can shoot, and it’s like 20+ guns in different calibers they do it in. Im new guy who’s better than average with off the shelf equipment, just getting involved in better equipment. They were hitting an 18” circle at 1000 most every shot, I was aiming at the 2’x3’

 

[Texas97]

Got it. My heads in a different place. I want it to be me and know it’s not the equipment.

He’s going to bring me back a gun and load recipe that he’s tack driving with. Then the guns out of the equation and it’s just me and the weather.

That’s why I was asking specifically about reloading. Do I start or just farm it out.


And to answer an earlier question. After 3-4 shots getting the scope set for the distance and conditions. The next 3 rounds were a 3” group. The same guy/gun had a 2.5” 5 shot group at 500 few weeks easier, it is not his most accurate gun.

These boys can shoot, and it’s like 20+ guns in different calibers they do it in. Im new guy who’s better than average with off the shelf equipment, just getting involved in better equipment. They were hitting an 18” circle at 1000 most every shot, I was aiming at the 2’x3’

If I was you I would find some instruction, 3 day precision rifle class somewhere near you. 200-300 rounds. Learn what's important and what's not.

 

[Halffastford]

That’s why I was asking specifically about reloading. Do I start or just farm it out.

I'd never suggest shooting someone else's reloads. That's just a disaster waiting to happen. While harder to do with some rifle powders, hot loads are always a possibility. Reload them yourself or stick to factory loads. There are excellent factory loads out there for about or slightly more than the whole tooling up cost and purchasing components.