Future of KOH 4400 chassis/car development?

JR4X said:
That’s pretty fair. When people come running to me and my brother for parts they are hoping to find an assembled 3rd to slam in because they are in the middle of a comp.

If I was smart I’d build some 5.29 spooled thirds to sell come October. Or even just buy some gears sets to sell. Then the people who don’t have spare anything will be mad at my mark up for planning ahead better than they do.
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I'm shocked that a comp guy wouldn't have spare thirds on hand anyway. I literally plan to have at least one spare 9" with just a spool in it for my or the wife's car. Just makes sense; especially as inexpensive as 9 inches are with full spools. Obviously, Toyotas aren't as cheap or readily available but still.

EDIT** I think the preferred 3rds are the V6 ones...though in the case of being in a competition, you'll take what you can get and the 4cyl interchange. I don't think anyone's really running the misnamed 8.4"s...with the extra girdle; at least not that I've read and HP 8" thirds out of the front FJ80s are probably not that popular either since they'd be 'low pinion'....though I do wonder which side of the gear you'd be driving on in that flipped instance. Flipping the diff ****s with my head but it seems like flipping a HP and putting it in the rear, would put you back on the drive side of the gear for forward motion which might be best??
 
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Stephen said:
Nope, my triton is about 93 wide outside of tire to outside of tire. I know well from trying to buy an enclosed trailer to haul the thing without bolting on rollers. I think the rear engine cars (fun havers and dykstra) might be running a little less backspace on the wheels that would push them to 95" outside of tire to outside of tire. The 111 was about 95 outside when Stearns had it because of wheel backspace. Mine are 6", his were 4.5 or 5". Our old car ('09 to '13 vintage) was on a full width 80's ford width axle and was 86" outside on the 42" goodyears we were running. It's likely a little narrower on the Maxxis 40s. They're not as wide as you think but they are kinda wide and sit low and have a low CG and can do dumb stuff on hills.
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My bad I guess my eyes deceive me, I also didn't realize yours was front engine!

I dealt with the same width issue and have a 90" rear door on my enclosed.

I run a 6.5 and 7" BS wheels to keep the scrub and width down.

On another note you guys drove an awesome race last week! :beer:
 
Sean said:
I don't think anyone's really running the misnamed 8.4"s...with the extra girdle; at least not that I've read
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Like I said, Jesse Haines is.
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'84 Bronco II said:
Like I said, Jesse Haines is.
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I meant commonly. Jesse is....but he's the only one I know of.....not that I know everyone running portals with Toyota 3rds either. I was just trying to give JR a heads up on what is most commonly going to be needed at the comps in his area if he was serious about building up 3rds to sell during the season.
 
I like those Toyota 8.4 caps. Gives me ideas for Corvette model 44's that I have put Dana lockers in...for rec and dunes.

I looked a LONG time for a heavy duty 9" drop out in alum. I found one from a limited run by Aerospace____? that is about 1.5x thick. At that Time I wanted to make an all alum front and rear SA. I had 6061 center diffs poured in Australia that I could bolt axle tubes to. Where there is a will...there are ways. Today, Forging alum is the real answer to anything life threatening if broken. (Again...Billet is not the same temper beyond about 1" in depth. FAFO.

Just do some diligence, like the steel discussion, when messing around and light-weighting.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
I believe he was having some issues with 8" thirds and switched to 8.4" thirds.
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8.4 > 8 by a good margin.

Nuff said.

matzell said:
Anyone else notice Miller in the top 5 in 11 of 20 races. Good showing.
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Miller is always impressive, as is Slawson.


Sean said:
EDIT** I think the preferred 3rds are the V6 ones...though in the case of being in a competition, you'll take what you can get and the 4cyl interchange. I don't think anyone's really running the misnamed 8.4"s...with the extra girdle; at least not that I've read and HP 8" thirds out of the front FJ80s are probably not that popular either since they'd be 'low pinion'....though I do wonder which side of the gear you'd be driving on in that flipped instance. Flipping the diff ****s with my head but it seems like flipping a HP and putting it in the rear, would put you back on the drive side of the gear for forward motion which might be best??
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Yes, the v6 diffs have extra ribs and deflect less. That said, the 8.4 deflects even less and should be the diff to go to for anyone running an 8" Yota. DC and Brian E. proved that years ago.
 
Tech Tim said:
8.4 > 8 by a good margin.





Yes, the v6 diffs have extra ribs and deflect less. That said, the 8.4 deflects even less and should be the diff to go to for anyone running an 8" Yota. DC and Brian E. proved that years ago.
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I don't disagree. Bought an '04 Tundra axle with the 8.4 and put a Detroit and 5.29s in it....but it requires a different housing than the 8" stuff and most guys who've built JHF portals have been using a standard 8" housing (typically a TG), not the 8.4 (they are not as ubiquitous as 8" stuff and you often have to supply the core to build)....which is why I was telling JR what comp guys would likely be looking for.
 
mobil1syn said:
chasing ground clearance numbers. IIRC JHF was heavily considering sami stuff
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Kevin Riemer did the sami diffs with portals. He moved on from that car pretty fast. 2nd owner also didn't have for very long. Haven't seen it since.
 
Sean said:
I'm shocked that a comp guy wouldn't have spare thirds on hand anyway. I literally plan to have at least one spare 9" with just a spool in it for my or the wife's car. Just makes sense; especially as inexpensive as 9 inches are with full spools. Obviously, Toyotas aren't as cheap or readily available but still.

EDIT** I think the preferred 3rds are the V6 ones...though in the case of being in a competition, you'll take what you can get and the 4cyl interchange. I don't think anyone's really running the misnamed 8.4"s...with the extra girdle; at least not that I've read and HP 8" thirds out of the front FJ80s are probably not that popular either since they'd be 'low pinion'....though I do wonder which side of the gear you'd be driving on in that flipped instance. Flipping the diff ****s with my head but it seems like flipping a HP and putting it in the rear, would put you back on the drive side of the gear for forward motion which might be best??
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Spare parts is more trail wheeler stuff. You gotta be prepared when out in the middle of nowhere mentality. Most comp guys only compete and don't carry much for parts. Racer mentality vs trail is very different, at least in cone dodger world.
 
Sean said:
I meant commonly. Jesse is....but he's the only one I know of.....not that I know everyone running portals with Toyota 3rds either. I was just trying to give JR a heads up on what is most commonly going to be needed at the comps in his area if he was serious about building up 3rds to sell during the season.
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I've never seen a Toyota 3rd (portal diff) fail in comp. The trail guys burn them up..
 
POR said:
Spare parts is more trail wheeler stuff. You gotta be prepared when out in the middle of nowhere mentality. Most comp guys only compete and don't carry much for parts. Racer mentality vs trail is very different, at least in cone dodger world.
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Thanks for the insight. I'm coming from the trail mentality. I guess I can't wrap my mind around traveling to a cone dodging event to compete and not bringing stuff to fix if you break....especially since most of these guys seem to run a lot of trails so they likely have a lot of spare parts (usually back at the truck or trailer; obviously not on the rigs).
 
POR said:
I've never seen a Toyota 3rd (portal diff) fail in comp. The trail guys burn them up..
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Why do you think that is? Genuinely curious...

I guess it must happen though....based on JR saying when the comps are in town, there's demand.
 
Tryloff said:
This dude is running jhf portals and 8.4 diff.
Not 4400 class by any means.
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I didn't catch that he was actually running 8.4" centers, but Jesse Bennett's ZJ was the one I was referring to in my previous posts.

Sean said:
I meant commonly. Jesse is....but he's the only one I know of.....not that I know everyone running portals with Toyota 3rds either. I was just trying to give JR a heads up on what is most commonly going to be needed at the comps in his area if he was serious about building up 3rds to sell during the season.
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I'd bet there are a lot more guys than you think running 8.4" stuff these days since Jesse made the switch about 3 years ago. Where do you think all of these guys are getting their axles?
 
FYI I dont follow the scene super close but a decent number of 2025 portal car builds and current builds are running 9" centers.
Seems like the trend is leaning more toward 9" and atlas over the antiquated 8" and 300.
 
Sean said:
Thanks for the insight. I'm coming from the trail mentality. I guess I can't wrap my mind around traveling to a cone dodging event to compete and not bringing stuff to fix if you break....especially since most of these guys seem to run a lot of trails so they likely have a lot of spare parts (usually back at the truck or trailer; obviously not on the rigs).
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I think you'd be surprised how many comp guys actually have zero trail wheeling experience.
 
POR said:
I've never seen a Toyota 3rd (portal diff) fail in comp.
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I have. I’ve also seen Jesse break the gears inside the portal and not break the third. Woody and I’s friend Jeff has broken everything there is to break including the actual portal case itself. Kevin Reimer is one of the guys who’s been looking for parts in Farmington during the comps, both Toyota and Samurai.

I talked to my co-driver last night. He’s got a James Traecey portal buggy. He carries a spare third in the trailer. He told me he’s one of the guys that backs up to oil the front diff pinion bearings before going out for the day. Says even running them over full the long pinion snout doesn’t hold oil well.

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YJ4Rox said:
FYI I dont follow the scene super close but a decent number of 2025 portal car builds and current builds are running 9" centers.
Seems like the trend is leaning more toward 9" and atlas over the antiquated 8" and 300.
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8's are hard to fit links around. Atlas is twice as strong as 300. The big question I have is how many of these u4 cars are gonna switch to the tmi 300 in the future since they are so much stronger than atlas's lol
 
POR said:
Kevin Riemer did the sami diffs with portals. He moved on from that car pretty fast. 2nd owner also didn't have for very long. Haven't seen it since.
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Ryan Maxfield had it at Moonrocks Nevada werock comp in August last year, for his daughter to drive. Had swaped one housing for 8 or 8.4 stuff because the Sami wasn't holding up.
 
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JR4X said:
I have. I’ve also seen Jesse break the gears inside the portal and not break the third. Woody and I’s friend Jeff has broken everything there is to break including the actual portal case itself. Kevin Reimer is one of the guys who’s been looking for parts in Farmington during the comps, both Toyota and Samurai.

I talked to my co-driver last night. He’s got a James Traecey portal buggy. He carries a spare third in the trailer. He told me he’s one of the guys that backs up to oil the front diff pinion bearings before going out for the day. Says even running them over full the long pinion snout doesn’t hold oil well.

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Im not saying they don't break if that's what you mean? I've just never seen a Toyota 3rd member on a portal car
fail during a comp. I've seen them spit everything else out of them one way or another doing trail stuff . I haven't been to nationals last couple yrs but I don't remember Jesse saying he broke a 3rd there.
 
JR4X said:
I have. I’ve also seen Jesse break the gears inside the portal and not break the third. Woody and I’s friend Jeff has broken everything there is to break including the actual portal case itself. Kevin Reimer is one of the guys who’s been looking for parts in Farmington during the comps, both Toyota and Samurai.

I talked to my co-driver last night. He’s got a James Traecey portal buggy. He carries a spare third in the trailer. He told me he’s one of the guys that backs up to oil the front diff pinion bearings before going out for the day. Says even running them over full the long pinion snout doesn’t hold oil well.

IMG_9136.jpeg
IMG_9135.jpeg
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Do the OEM oil slingers for the high pinion 8" not work in his application?
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JR4X said:
I have. I’ve also seen Jesse break the gears inside the portal and not break the third. Woody and I’s friend Jeff has broken everything there is to break including the actual portal case itself. Kevin Reimer is one of the guys who’s been looking for parts in Farmington during the comps, both Toyota and Samurai.

I talked to my co-driver last night. He’s got a James Traecey portal buggy. He carries a spare third in the trailer. He told me he’s one of the guys that backs up to oil the front diff pinion bearings before going out for the day. Says even running them over full the long pinion snout doesn’t hold oil well.

IMG_9136.jpeg
IMG_9135.jpeg
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What's your co driver name? I think he wheeled with us one day at koh... Our group was dropping like flies that day haha. We ended up with his soft shackle af and would like to send it back to him.
 
Chkn said:
Do the OEM oil slingers for the high pinion 8" not work in his application?
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Sean said:
Why do you think that is? Genuinely curious...

I guess it must happen though....based on JR saying when the comps are in town, there's demand.
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They burn up from lack of oiling.. he has big stuff in his area, they have a pretty good chance of tearing cars up playing around there.
 
Opiebennett said:
Ryan Maxfield had it at Moonrocks Nevada werock comp in August last year, for his daughter to drive. Had swaped one housing for 8 or 8.4 stuff because the Sami wasn't holding up.
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Didnt he sell that car also?
 
POR said:
Im not saying they don't break if that's what you mean? I've just ever seen a Toyota 3rd on a portal car
fail during a comp. I've seen them spit everything else out of them one way or another doing trail stuff . I haven't been to nationals last couple yrs but I don't remember Jesse saying he broke a 3rd there.
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I just said, I saw him break PORTAL
gears and NOT break the third member. We also sold someone a used set of megahi9 gears last year during the comp because they broke a set and had zero spares. So we see 9” stuff broken also. Not just picking on Toyota stuff.

POR said:
What's your co driver name? I think he wheeled with us one day at koh... Our group was dropping like flies that day haha. We ended up with his soft shackle af and would like to send it back to him.
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Jason Crick. He did wheel with you, you did end up with his soft shackle and he would like it back. :laughing: I think I met you on outer limits pre running then. Jason and I came through in my big yellow LJ and you let us play through. We stopped and talked to someone in a buggy about the soft shackle and then hauled ass.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
I didn't catch that he was actually running 8.4" centers, but Jesse Bennett's ZJ was the one I was referring to in my previous posts.



I'd bet there are a lot more guys than you think running 8.4" stuff these days since Jesse made the switch about 3 years ago. Where do you think all of these guys are getting their axles?
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I can't speak for everyone, I bought his portals....the housing was up to me. So, it's entirely possible that there are a lot of 8.4s out there....I just know they were much harder to source thirds for. When I geared mine back in 2015 (IIRC) I couldn't just order a complete 3rd from Marlin, ECGS or Randy's...I had to supply the core just to be built. Maybe that's changed as the photo posted above looks like a brand spankin' new third....
 
JR4X said:
I just said, I saw him break PORTAL
gears and NOT break the third member. We also sold someone a used set of megahi9 gears last year during the comp because they broke a set and had zero spares. So we see 9” stuff broken also. Not just picking on Toyota stuff.
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I pick on Toyota stuff all the time lol. Chinese junk hahaha
JR4X said:
Jason Crick. He did wheel with you, you did end up with his soft shackle and he would like it back. :laughing: I think I met you on outer limits pre running then. Jason and I came through in my big yellow LJ and you let us play through. We stopped and talked to someone in a buggy about the soft shackle and then hauled ass.
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Haha awesome! Super nice guy. I do remember you guys playing through.
 
JR4X said:
I have. I’ve also seen Jesse break the gears inside the portal and not break the third. Woody and I’s friend Jeff has broken everything there is to break including the actual portal case itself. Kevin Reimer is one of the guys who’s been looking for parts in Farmington during the comps, both Toyota and Samurai.

I talked to my co-driver last night. He’s got a James Traecey portal buggy. He carries a spare third in the trailer. He told me he’s one of the guys that backs up to oil the front diff pinion bearings before going out for the day. Says even running them over full the long pinion snout doesn’t hold oil well.
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Are they running the oil slingers most people leave out on the pinion? I did that on mine hoping it would help.
 
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