1976 F100 street machine

rattle_snake said:
Can't really find the oil leak on the rear of the engine. Snugged up the valve covers and oil pan a bit more.
Hooked up my brake bleeder apparatus as a temporary catch can in line with the wacky PCV system. Yes it is a glass moonshine jar, I made sure the contents were properly filtered and disposed of. I drove 3 miles and it had collected 1.5-2 oz of oil, so that is not good. It did remove the large thick clouds of blue smoke under heavy throttle. I was wondering if the oil in the mixture was giving false AFR readings, not so much.
Not exactly sure what to think or do here. The motor has new rings and not many miles, so some blow-by is going to be present. Maybe the intake's exhaust crossover as a crank case suction point is part of the problem. drops of oil hanging on the bottom, getting sucked up into the cavity. The amount of airflow through the jar seems like a lot at idle, so maybe a smaller restrictor would help. I expected the clear hose to be oily, and it's not, indicating that the oil is likely suspended vapor. I can add an external catch can into existing system but it will fill quickly, so have to think about how to drain, or include a drain.
3CZlmexY7dgm7O6ffYtQ=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg
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Godzilla swap was bound to happen, sux its sooner than later,

:flipoff2:
 
WiscoF100 said:
Quit driving like a pussy and seat the rings :middle fanger:
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Oh I don't baby it. It goes WOT every time I drive it. I imagine the rings have mostly done there thing in first few drives.

SLOWPOKE693 said:
They make puke tanks that separate the oil/air mist and returns oil to the engine. I think Motion Raceworks and a few others makes something you could use.

Or... Run a panvac system with hoses from the breathers to check valves in the exhaust. That will pull a vacuum on the bottom end and help seal the rings better.
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Ya it already has one built into the manifold. How well it works compared to a valve cover PCV, I dunno. Obviously needs a 2nd one.
Motion is too expensive for my cheap ass.

The exhaust evac systems are non-trivial. Have to verify that they actually work and don't just make things worse with exhaust gas pressure that they operate under. I have only seen them on race cars that only have to do one thing, WOT.
Java230 said:
I like the radium engineering catch cans I have. Does exactly what Slowpoke says. Separates the oil and lets it drop out.
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The Radium stuff is too similar to the cheap crap on Amazon for a fraction of the price. I bought a $25 until that has the exact same pictures. Cheaper than I can make my own. I went with a 750 ml size, as the test results indicate that the smaller 375 ml size would be full in 10-15 miles. Should completely drain oil system on a tank of fuel, so have to be careful to check oil level, now that the dipstick can actually read the level.

I built a 347 for my '77 bronco that had horrific oil consumption through the PCV system. Had a Trick Flow EFI intake with PCV in the back of the manifold, with a baffle. I built my own catch can out of ABS pipe, cuz cheap. it worked, filled too fast.
CarterKraft said:
Curious comment...
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I work at a competitor to Analog Devices. Not directly audio, but we have analog portfolio of similar stuff. I recently switched to working on high end digital power supplies.
CarterKraft said:
Godzilla swap was bound to happen, sux its sooner than later,

:flipoff2:
Click to expand...
No committed to this turd after investing in the heads. I just need to be patient and solve each issue as they come.
 
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rattle_snake said:
I went with a 750 ml size, as the test results indicate that the smaller 375 ml size would be full in 10-15 miles. Should completely drain oil system on a tank of fuel, so have to be careful to check oil level, now that the dipstick can actually read the level.
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You like making trick things.

Make a drain line with a check ball. When you start the engine vacuum seals the drain as the check ball pulled toward the catch can. When you shut the engine off, check ball falls and opens the drain to the pan or something.
 
posford said:
You like making things as difficult as possible.

Make a drain line with a check ball. When you start the engine vacuum seals the drain as the check ball pulled toward the catch can. When you shut the engine off, check ball falls and opens the drain to the pan or something.
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Ya I've had delusions of auto drain back systems. WOT is also zero manifold vacuum, check opens, crankcase is positive pressurized and would push oil out of can into the intake. Or something like that. Can be solved with an electric valve like an air compressor.

Interestingly, the CC intake hose has yet to puke any oil out of it.
 
Hate to clog your thread with unrelated tech but all this talk of oil catch cans reminded me. Have you ever used a pre-oiler? Wifes ram has the 4.7 in it and if you drive it everyday its not an issue but with gas prices we usually drive my subaru unless we are moving something or going to use a trailer. If it sits for more than a few days it ticks on startup and takes maybe a second to show oil pressure so I have been thinking about getting one of the pressurized pre-oilers that refills as you drive then on next startup gives oil pressure before you start.
 
I haven't read every post, but have you done a leak down test yet? I would consider an engine that pukes that much oil as ****ed up. There is no way on earth that what you are experiencing is "just a Ford thing" Something is VERY wrong.
 
SLOWPOKE693 said:
I haven't read every post, but have you done a leak down test yet? I would consider an engine that pukes that much oil as ****ed up. There is no way on earth that what you are experiencing is "just a Ford thing" Something is VERY wrong.
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That was my thinking but I don't know enough (anything) about SBF to know what's wrong.

IT seems like if you are "sucking" crankcase pressure with PCV ports etc. there is too much velocity and not enough mechanical separation at the source, intake valve cover etc.

Some pix of that setup (intake off etc.) would help me but if you think its ring condition, gap etc. all this is for naught.
 
The engine has new rings, dingle ball hone. Driven maybe 30 miles. The rings were the wrong size (likely STD size on 0.040 pistons) with huge gap, 60 or 70 thou. With correct new rings the ring gap is 020. New heads so new valve seals and so on.

There is no 'PCV valve', but the system does have a restrictor in the CCV line. From looking at the madness in the clear glass jar (Ole Smokey') just at idle the velocity seems excessive. Easy to fix that, smaller orifice. I do wonder if the wacky 'filter' is doing more harm than good.

inlet on bottom of manifold. The lowest point.
AJsS3d6tRgYAkAGwRGHrg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


crossover stuffed with metal mesh to lower velocity
78loqlS3l0Klu0QJ-khQg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


Hose from exhaust x-over to the manifold vac, with restrictor.
2xOrQeEHVm5GXeos6tkQ=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg
 
rattle_snake said:
Oh I don't baby it. It goes WOT every time I drive it. I imagine the rings have mostly done there thing in first few drives.
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That’s the spirit. Although I’d argue there’s still time for them.
rattle_snake said:
Ya it already has one built into the manifold. How well it works compared to a valve cover PCV, I dunno. Obviously needs a 2nd one.
Motion is too expensive for my cheap ass.

The exhaust evac systems are non-trivial. Have to verify that they actually work and don't just make things worse with exhaust gas pressure that they operate under. I have only seen them on race cars that only have to do one thing, WOT.
Click to expand...
WFO is the only way collector evacuation works. Golfcartfanboi should know that.
rattle_snake said:
The Radium stuff is too similar to the cheap crap on Amazon for a fraction of the price. I bought a $25 until that has the exact same pictures. Cheaper than I can make my own. I went with a 750 ml size, as the test results indicate that the smaller 375 ml size would be full in 10-15 miles. Should completely drain oil system on a tank of fuel, so have to be careful to check oil level, now that the dipstick can actually read the level.

I built a 347 for my '77 bronco that had horrific oil consumption through the PCV system. Had a Trick Flow EFI intake with PCV in the back of the manifold, with a baffle. I built my own catch can out of ABS pipe, cuz cheap. it worked, filled too fast.

I work at a competitor to Analog Devices. Not directly audio, but we have analog portfolio of similar stuff. I recently switched to working on high end digital power supplies.

No committed to this turd after investing in the heads. I just need to be patient and solve each issue as they come.
Click to expand...
One step at a time. Stupid hot rod addiction saves you from drugs. :laughing:

You’re probably on the right track with restricting the fresh air side of the crank case. I’ve used a Holley jet before. Between that, mitigating vapor suspension and enough miles I don’t have any consumption issues. The sneaky pete approach is very trick but perhaps being horizontal and so short the oil stays in suspension. Stuff with more packing??

Track down a quality carb yet? Old carbs are always sketchy when you don’t know what it came from or who has had their fingers in the pie. Worth at least borrowing something to compare your results/data and rule out Frankenstein pos, pos fuel or loose nut behind the wheel :flipoff2:
 
rattle_snake said:
The engine has new rings, dingle ball hone. Driven maybe 30 miles. The rings were the wrong size (likely STD size on 0.040 pistons) with huge gap, 60 or 70 thou. With correct new rings the ring gap is 020. New heads so new valve seals and so on.

There is no 'PCV valve', but the system does have a restrictor in the CCV line. From looking at the madness in the clear glass jar (Ole Smokey') just at idle the velocity seems excessive. Easy to fix that, smaller orifice. I do wonder if the wacky 'filter' is doing more harm than good.

inlet on bottom of manifold. The lowest point.
AJsS3d6tRgYAkAGwRGHrg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


crossover stuffed with metal mesh to lower velocity
78loqlS3l0Klu0QJ-khQg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


Hose from exhaust x-over to the manifold vac, with restrictor.
2xOrQeEHVm5GXeos6tkQ=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg
Click to expand...
Isn’t that the exhaust gas passage?
“to improve fuel atomization…”
I blocked mine off on my 5.8. PCV is in a rear vacuum port.
 
rattle_snake said:
The engine has new rings, dingle ball hone. Driven maybe 30 miles. The rings were the wrong size (likely STD size on 0.040 pistons) with huge gap, 60 or 70 thou. With correct new rings the ring gap is 020. New heads so new valve seals and so on.

There is no 'PCV valve', but the system does have a restrictor in the CCV line. From looking at the madness in the clear glass jar (Ole Smokey') just at idle the velocity seems excessive. Easy to fix that, smaller orifice. I do wonder if the wacky 'filter' is doing more harm than good.

inlet on bottom of manifold. The lowest point.
AJsS3d6tRgYAkAGwRGHrg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


crossover stuffed with metal mesh to lower velocity
78loqlS3l0Klu0QJ-khQg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


Hose from exhaust x-over to the manifold vac, with restrictor.
2xOrQeEHVm5GXeos6tkQ=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg
Click to expand...
You think the cam is slinging oil up to those holes in the crossover? Or do you think those holes are too small, making the velocity too high?
 
Gumbybronco said:
Isn’t that the exhaust gas passage?
“to improve fuel atomization…”
I blocked mine off on my 5.8. PCV is in a rear vacuum port.
Click to expand...
I know you knew this.
I would expect it to be blowing way more than sucking at that point…and adding to the crankcase pressure.
 
CarterKraft said:
the ports are blocked off at the head, but maybe they are leaking?
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I used the block-off gaskets with a little high temp rtv. And blocked off the intake sides with about an inch of JB weld on each side.
This has worked great for years.
 
The aftermarket cylinder heads have no provisions for exhaust crossover.

Yes I can drill the valve cover for a standard PCV valve.

I pulled the restrictor and made the hole smaller. I turned down a piece of aluminum and press fit it into the existing hole, and redrilled. The old size was 0.150, the new is 0.080. The area difference is 1/4, flow is proportional to cross sectional area, so it should be 1/4. I didn't test it yet.
 
It seems like you are trying to take the crankcase pressure and put it back in the same place, or at least too close to include the whole engine.
PCV systems have a circular flow to them.

IMG_0544.jpeg
 
So I went back to the beginning:
rattle_snake

Post in thread '1976 F100 street machine'

Decided to try to no-holes in valve covers so started modifying the mech fuel pump block-off for a fresh air inlet. I had some leftover 6AN to 5/16 IF fittings that are 1/2-20 thread, so welded a nut on the back of the plate.
8o4Urz1rbpnphVLi2vfCA=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


Added a baffle so prevent oil slung off the timing chain going into hose. At WOT the airflow direction is out and don't want it puking oil into air filter.
obH2rU0SlevcuKzE5wdw=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


HKITq4igRSnT92s6qOkcg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


For the air cleaner base I removed the 5/8 tube and put another of the same AN fitting.
Eymlm5LIa6i-BqS0nHlg=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


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Since you are pulling 'fresh air' in via a position low in the oil flow and in the place where there is a LOT of slung oil, and you have admitted that the ersatz catch can is getting a lot of oil, I would suggest putting on one of the old valve covers with a breather on it to see if remedies the situation.

You should see a lot less atomized oil at that location, thereby carrying less thru the system to the CCV solution you put together.

JMO.
 
With what you are trying to achieve I'd just block the fuel pump plate off?
Or at least put the orifice in that fitting in the air cleaner, OR is that where you already put it?

Assume you need high volume low velocity for this to work.
Pulling air in that low you are going to be guaranteed to pull oil vapor through your air.
 
CarterKraft said:
Can you get a borescope in the valley?

I bet you just have too much windage from the cam tunnel.
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No but I'm sure there is oil all over the place. I thought about a baffle when I originally did it, but didn't do one. Figured I can just abandon and use valve covers. Looking that way.
71PA_Highboy said:
So I went back to the beginning:
rattle_snake

Post in thread '1976 F100 street machine'

Decided to try to no-holes in valve covers so started modifying the mech fuel pump block-off for a fresh air inlet. I had some leftover 6AN to 5/16 IF fittings that are 1/2-20 thread, so welded a nut on the back of the plate.
8o4Urz1rbpnphVLi2vfCA=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


Added a baffle so prevent oil slung off the timing chain going into hose. At WOT the airflow direction is out and don't want it puking oil into air filter.
obH2rU0SlevcuKzE5wdw=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


HKITq4igRSnT92s6qOkcg=w683-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


For the air cleaner base I removed the 5/8 tube and put another of the same AN fitting.
Eymlm5LIa6i-BqS0nHlg=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


-rpc9qkEgPlFvyIzP***=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg
  • Like

Since you are pulling 'fresh air' in via a position low in the oil flow and in the place where there is a LOT of slung oil, and you have admitted that the ersatz catch can is getting a lot of oil, I would suggest putting on one of the old valve covers with a breather on it to see if remedies the situation.

You should see a lot less atomized oil at that location, thereby carrying less thru the system to the CCV solution you put together.

JMO.
Click to expand...
Good point, hadn't thought of that. The old valve covers do not clear the rockers. Timing chain is slingin' oil there for sure
CarterKraft said:
With what you are trying to achieve I'd just block the fuel pump plate off?
Or at least put the orifice in that fitting in the air cleaner, OR is that where you already put it?

Assume you need high volume low velocity for this to work.
Pulling air in that low you are going to be guaranteed to pull oil vapor through your air.
Click to expand...
The restrictor is in the other end, at the manifold. This makes the vac 'leak' more consistent from manifold perspective and not dependent on the rest of the CCV system.

Sounds like the CC intake isn't in a good place and needs to change. Have to decide either an open breather or a cap type with hose into the air filter. Need to buy grommets for the valve covers, pick a size that works with breather. I bought a PCV valve, and could slip AN hose on it. Or just tap threads and go directly to AN.
 
rattle_snake said:
I came to realize that my front cover dipstick can have false readings with rear/dual sump oil pan. Once the oil level gets below the 'saddle' of the pan, the level in the rear is unknown. To mitigate that for now, I added an equalizer tube between the sumps. Drain plugs were M14-1.5, so replaced with banjo bolts and AN adapters.
fsz3hh5jiVZejgUBIcgg=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg


The front drain is partially blocked and needs a deflector to not make a mess, but now can drain with the rear plug only directly into oil tub.
XiTEcmuoYZbfFkTPh8Xw=w1215-h911-s-no-gm?authuser=1.jpg
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Jesus Christ man. You're just showing off now.
That's really, really nice work.
 
Valve cover grommets always leak. Without restricting oil beyond the lifters, it gets western in the valve covers at operating rpm’s. Also worth mentioning, oil pooling at the rear. That’s why I moved mine forward.

In for a penny in for a pound, you’ve drilled the intake once, drill again for windage tray/baffle mounting. Additionally an aluminum tray like this ⬇️
IMG_3348.jpg


I don’t see the location of the fresh air intake being an issue at all. As you have it is fine imo. Come to think of it, you’re restricting the oily air and not the clean?? I restrict the fresh side- pull vacuum on case but without pulling air past seals or crumpling the oil pan in on itself……..

Since my latest version, (March 25th) there’s no measurable loss. Sometime back in the spring (May 5th) I topped off with a quart when I got rid of the TMeyer oil filter fitting and it’s about a 1/2qt low right now?
IMG_3349.jpeg
 
Thanks for the info. Not planning to pull the intake off again to **** with the CCV aspect. When I was working on it, it seemed like a slick idea. I though about why the OEMs would not do something similar, my answer was 'not removable'.

What PS pump is that? Type II?

The engine is making more clatter on the pass side, so I pulled that valve cover off and checked the rockers. They all seem OK. While it was off I drilled the rear provision and tapped to 1/2-20 for the 5/16 IF to 6AN fittings I happen to have. Installed the baffle, made a new sticker. That's are far as I got. I did finally get my garden put in, late but something.
 
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