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What is today's equivalent "Explorer F8.8" axle swap?

BDK said:
F150's have full width 8.8's.
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Everything else being the same, just wider? Like swapping locker/gears/cover and brakes from my explorer 8.8 to a f150 would work if I wanted the width?
 
fl0w3n said:
Everything else being the same, just wider? Like swapping locker/gears/cover and brakes from my explorer 8.8 to a f150 would work if I wanted the width?
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Lug pattern is different on the f150 axle, 5x5.5. So brakes would need some modification. Gears and that are the same.

There are dual drilled axles available though that have both patterns.
 
fl0w3n said:
Are there wider 8.8 applications from the truck side? I know the explorer application is most common because of the close wms and bolt pattern to Jeeps, don’t f150 also have 8.8s?
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Yes. F150s are wider and vans are wider still. Vans post-99 have discs. F150s are some metric bolt pattern for 97+

Panther platform is also a potential source but IIRC that's 28spl

crazybluerider said:
Lug pattern is different on the f150 axle, 5x5.5. So brakes would need some modification. Gears and that are the same.

There are dual drilled axles available though that have both patterns.
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IIRC the hub pilot is the same so just slap a brake rotor/dum on there as a template.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
if you make something better than a D44 but no quite as good as a dana 60, maybe use a number in between?!?!
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Dana 50 🤣

I am not sure what the definitive answer is but I don't think there is a good one after the 8.8 stopped being made.

Remember that after the 2000s everything was either already or becoming transitioned to unibody or car clones in the SUV world. No one cares about Nissan axles. The Tacoma axle is ok but nothing special. Also is a bastard with non-matching patterns.

So it's Jeep from that point on. I'm sorry but the old Dana 44 was slim pickings since most rolled off the line with a 35. The Rubi axles still fetch big $$$ even when trashed.

Everything else after the TJ lineup has serious issues that take a lot of money to fix and are so wide that my guess is most people are just using tons or much cheaper fullsize axles from something decades ago.

I didn't need 60s in my build yet but SuperDuty axles by me are plentiful and can be had cheap. Old Jeep 44s, Bronco 44, Waggy 44s, etc. are long gone at this point by me. So it was an obvious choice.

Plus the 60 diff makes me happy. I'd run one in a Prius if I could.

So back on topic, maybe all of these Advantek axles in another decade will be super cheap. They are in everything. Sure the bolt patterns are wonky and don't match any front straight axles but if they are $200-300, have ratios like 3.73 or 4.10, and LSDs or lockers maybe they will be the new go to axle in the future.

Buy once cry once...Econoline 60s are way cooler!
 

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crazybluerider said:
Lug pattern is different on the f150 axle, 5x5.5. So brakes would need some modification. Gears and that are the same.

There are dual drilled axles available though that have both patterns.
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The backing plates swap and are the same as the late big bearing 9" housing ends. Swapping my '91 axle to discs was a bolt on affair. You just need to get axles that match the width and bolt pattern you want to run. '96-'01 Explorer brakes if you want 4.5" and discs, and '04-'06 E-150 brakes if you want discs and 5.5".

EDIT: I did some more research, and it looks like the Vans have unique housing ends, so the backing plates won't bolt to the other 8.8" housings. Looks like you are stuck doing something custom with brakes if you want 5.5" and discs without using an E150 housing. Good thread with info: E-150 Van Rear Disc Brake Conversion

YotaAtieToo said:
At what point did parts stop interchanging? Will the elocker from a 2011+ work in an older 8.8?
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DMG said:
I think the newer stuff is 34 spline super 8.8
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The Super 8.8" came out in 2015. It is basically a 9.75" carrier and bearings with an 8.8" ring and pinion to save some mouse fart's worth of fuel compared to the normal 9.75" you can still get in properly optioned trucks.


Also Ford put 8.8" variants in Rangers, Aerostars, Mustangs, and Panther platform cars, but the Explorer, F150/Bronco, and E150 Variants are the only ones worth looking into for offroad use since the have both the 3.25" tubes and 31 spline axles shafts. The exception for the Ranger Axles is the relatively rare FX4 Level II package Rangers from '03-'07 which had the 3.25" tubes and 31 spline axles as well.

Ranger FX4 Level II width (All '93-'11 Rangers): 58.50 inches
Explorer width: 59.625 inches
F150/Bronco width: 65.125 inches
E150 width: 67.765 inches

Here's a pretty good article about all the variants: Ford 8.8-Inch Rear Axle History & Specs - The Ranger Station
 
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Provience said:
Yeah, maybe like a kleenex thing. They use some stupid communist measurement now. M256 or some stupid thing

D44 is easier

Heck, I still call ram trucks dodge. They haven't been dodges for many years now
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It’s still a fucking dodge, doesn’t matter what they call it.

That’s why most Dodge guys say they drive a cummings.
 
There is no G in Cummings 🤣

Most guys that drive a Cummings don't even have a trailer hitch...
 
Well they are all the rage in smokey commuter cars these days...
 
The 8.8 tubes are thin, I tore one open with a professionally welded anti wrap bar. Ripped the tube right open.
My vote is isuzu 44. Has a 9 inch ring gear, and the pinion shaft is the same as a Dana 60. Even accepts a d60 yoke. Disc brakes and the width is right.
Use a d44 front and Chevy hubs for the pattern or wheel spacer/adapter for 6 lug wheels.
 
Drakeslayer said:
The 8.8 tubes are thin, I tore one open with a professionally welded anti wrap bar. Ripped the tube right open.
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Whats the wall thickness? Anti wrap bar professionally welded on but was it designed correctly? Pics?
Drakeslayer said:
My vote is isuzu 44. Has a 9 inch ring gear, and the pinion shaft is the same as a Dana 60. Even accepts a d60 yoke. Disc brakes and the width is right.
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Ok, but what about its tube diameter and wall thickness?:homer:
 
Aren’t they just some variety of pre-JK D44? They’re both 8.9” and very similar pinion size, JKD44- 24 spline, 1.627”, vs Isuzu at 29 spline, 1.626”. Probably can just drop JK ring & pinion into Isuzu/honda D44 with a yoke swap, but I have no interest in hard-to-find axle housings to start a build with.
 
To play devil's advocate...

With the cost of say a custom 9" housing, setting up the diff with what you want, shafts, and a brake package. How far off would you be from a junkyard 8.8 or Isuzu 44. Hell any 44 like TJ or XJ.

By the time you upgrade it with what you want is the money that far off? Because you end up with an axle that still has compromises.

I guess if you wanted a junkyard axle and were going to run it with stock components, try to find one with a matching gearset to your front ratio, and maybe a pocket locker you would be doing this cheap.

I just don't see the advantage of getting a 30+ year old axle, upgrading every piece of it, only to salvage the housing. Then why not just start with a beefy aftermarket housing and build it up?
 
Skinny said:
I just don't see the advantage of getting a 30+ year old axle, upgrading every piece of it, only to salvage the housing. Then why not just start with a beefy aftermarket housing and build it up?
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One issue I have with going full aftermarket housings is that it make a lot of replacement parts harder to find.

I’ll consider it if there’s an aftermarket housing utilizing readily available off the shelf parts. Brakes, bearings, seals, ring & pinion, carrier, and most importantly axle shafts.

Ford Explorer F8.8 axle assembly in good condition is going to just need a gear swap, locker and brackets welded on to bolt in.

In my case it’s to go in my TJ, which will have a polished D30, for recreational wheeling. A guy on here spent $5k on aftermarket TJ rear axle assembly from ECGS.
 
TrailTamer said:
Whats the wall thickness? Anti wrap bar professionally welded on but was it designed correctly? Pics?

Ok, but what about its tube diameter and wall thickness?:homer:
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I was thinking the same thing, I can't imagine it's much different.

Also, people underestimate how much stress is on a wrap bar. It's like building a 4 link, and having all 4 links mounted off of 2 tabs.

Skinny said:
To play devil's advocate...

With the cost of say a custom 9" housing, setting up the diff with what you want, shafts, and a brake package. How far off would you be from a junkyard 8.8 or Isuzu 44. Hell any 44 like TJ or XJ.

By the time you upgrade it with what you want is the money that far off? Because you end up with an axle that still has compromises.

I guess if you wanted a junkyard axle and were going to run it with stock components, try to find one with a matching gearset to your front ratio, and maybe a pocket locker you would be doing this cheap.

I just don't see the advantage of getting a 30+ year old axle, upgrading every piece of it, only to salvage the housing. Then why not just start with a beefy aftermarket housing and build it up?
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I've said that for a while, if you're replacing every part, junk yard stuff doesn't make mu h sense. How ever, throwing gears and locker in an 8.8 that's in decent shape, is a far cry from a fab9.
 
Yeah I don't know if there is a definitive right answer. I'm just saying we all get stuck in the just one part here one part there. Next thing you know...

I guess if you are driving a Jeep, are tired on the Dana 35 woes, and stick to a reasonable tire size/driving style then yeah an 8.8 is a no brainer.

Depends on how honest you are with yourself. I'm not a huge fan of blowing money on stepping stones. Buy once cry once.
 
Skinny said:
To play devil's advocate...

With the cost of say a custom 9" housing, setting up the diff with what you want, shafts, and a brake package. How far off would you be from a junkyard 8.8 or Isuzu 44. Hell any 44 like TJ or XJ.

By the time you upgrade it with what you want is the money that far off? Because you end up with an axle that still has compromises.

I guess if you wanted a junkyard axle and were going to run it with stock components, try to find one with a matching gearset to your front ratio, and maybe a pocket locker you would be doing this cheap.

I just don't see the advantage of getting a 30+ year old axle, upgrading every piece of it, only to salvage the housing. Then why not just start with a beefy aftermarket housing and build it up?
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I think the only way to make it comparable $ wise is if you run a spool in the 9” based axle

An assembled 3rd with locker is ~$1,800, plus housing / shafts and you’re ~$2,500-$3k before brakes etc which is a moot point because I doubt you’d run junkyard brakes on the 8.8. A spool would shave you $1k ish obviously

I have ~$1k into my 8.8 trying to do it cheap, which is complete new brakes / gears / spool. Add a lunchbox and chromos for still less than $2k

I wish there was a good lunchbox option for the 9” based stuff, but full case lockers add up quick when having the “budget” argument.
 
fl0w3n said:
I think the only way to make it comparable $ wise is if you run a spool in the 9” based axle

An assembled 3rd with locker is ~$1,800, plus housing / shafts and you’re ~$2,500-$3k before brakes etc which is a moot point because I doubt you’d run junkyard brakes on the 8.8. A spool would shave you $1k ish obviously

I have ~$1k into my 8.8 trying to do it cheap, which is complete new brakes / gears / spool. Add a lunchbox and chromos for still less than $2k

I wish there was a good lunchbox option for the 9” based stuff, but full case lockers add up quick when having the “budget” argument.
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I thought one of the main benifts of the exp 8.8 was the decent disc brake setup?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I thought one of the main benifts of the exp 8.8 was the decent disc brake setup?
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Yes, but I don’t trust junkyard calipers and rotors and pads… so I threw new on. Or maybe PnP takes calipers before they set the vehicle in the yard, I don’t remember.
 
fl0w3n said:
Yes, but I don’t trust junkyard calipers and rotors and pads… so I threw new on. Or maybe PnP takes calipers before they set the vehicle in the yard, I don’t remember.
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If the yard pulls the calipers that housing better be fuckin cheap. They used to not do that bullshit. I'd run JY calipers if they were functional. Pads and rotors are cheap
 
posford said:
If the yard pulls the calipers that housing better be fuckin cheap. They used to not do that bullshit. I'd run JY calipers if they were functional. Pads and rotors are cheap
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Around here they charge 37 bucks extra a caliper at the junkyard. Reman calipers for an 8.8 are like 35 bucks on rockauto.

Don't think I have ever seen a junkyard/dismantler that did not charge extra for calipers.
 
Copied from the place that shall not be mentioned.

i get a few calls a week with ??'s on gear swaps for 1998 and newer Rodeos and Amigos and i want to clear the air w/ some real tech on what's up w/ these axles and why you (until now) cannot just simply swap in a "regular" D44 gear.

so let's start w/ what this axle IS.....then we wil move on to what you CAN do (in terms of variations on swap options.the)


this axle DOES NOT have a regular Dana Spicer 44 gear. But we will get to that. First let's get a little background tech:



1. there are factory gear's available. ratios include the most common 4.10 & 4.30 options found in most all of these trucks w/ factory v-6 motors.

2. there are factory 4.77 Dana Spicer gears availabe for these - originally optioned in the 1998-99 trucks w/ the 4cyl. Motor. these can be purchased from Isuzu Direct ...... sold as a "kit" with ring gear bolts and a Pinion nut.

3. MOST ALL of these years have a Dana Spicer Limited slip ....called a Trac-Loc. Althought the word "Lock" is in the name these are in NO WAY a LOCKER. tHis is a super common limited slip using friction disks betweeh each side gear and the carrier. The Spicer Trac-Lock is a less aggressive, street-friendly limited slip suitable for daily driven vehicles and mild off-road use.....thus it is an OEM diff in many vehicles. This unit uses clutch packs and is Rebuildable.

these actually look alot like open carriers and are often mistaken:





4. this leads us to swapping this factory unit for something more aggressive. :D
the typical choice is the Powertrax No-slip as it fits in the typical Trac-lock carrier.



this unit replaces the spider and side gears in the existing carrier.

5. Full carrier lockers - you can run any full carrier locker in this Isuzu rear D44 but, remember you will need to use the oppropriate carrier. meaning: w/ factory ratios (althoght 4.10, 4.30, 4.77) you actually need a 3.73 & down (numerically lower) carrier. This is due to the Thick ring gear Isuzu used in these axles.




ok.............moving on to the actual factory gear vs. the standard D44 gear.

Matt, Owner: Independent4x

Independant4x has lots of information, couldn't find tube thickness. These axles are readily available in the PNW, not expensive to buy, brake parts are expensive though.
 
LScout800 said:
Around here they charge 37 bucks extra a caliper at the junkyard. Reman calipers for an 8.8 are like 35 bucks on rockauto.

Don't think I have ever seen a junkyard/dismantler that did not charge extra for calipers.
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I think this was my logic
 
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