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Well wiring, original owner oddities, how much should I fix?
- Thread starter Lil'John
- Start date
Boss
Rabble-Rouser
It may very well be hanging on PVC pipe. Don't be fooled by the steel fittings on top. In that case and if it's less than 200' it should be easy. Any thing else you can use a cherry picker (engine hoist) . Tip: Just loosen the well cap bolts don't remove them. There is a steel plate on the underside that will fall in the well.
Also, the well company should have a full record of your well static level, casing depth, perforations, pump depth and yield.
Lil'John
Former #278
I redid my echo test calc numbers and I'm getting from 55 feet to 75 feet. Turns out I was reading the software data wrong :(
The company that came out to do testing at house sale didn't provide any information beyond yield(more below) and potability testing. I have an email reaching out to them. Given that the house was built in the 70s, I haven't found any well information. Is this something the county would have?
Once I get the pressure tank/pressure switch/wiring, I am going to look into flow issues. The yield(flow) was measure on the low side when I bought the house as reported by well company. Lately, it feels even lower flow. I'm hoping that squaring away other items will allow me to diagnose if pump is failing or if the well is failing. I haven't heard if my "uphill" neighbor is failing also.
Thanks for the warning. What other option is there besides PVC? As noted I'm unsure what is going on under the well cap.
The company that came out to do testing at house sale didn't provide any information beyond yield(more below) and potability testing. I have an email reaching out to them. Given that the house was built in the 70s, I haven't found any well information. Is this something the county would have?
So as long as I pull the cap straight up, I should be good to go.
Once I get the pressure tank/pressure switch/wiring, I am going to look into flow issues. The yield(flow) was measure on the low side when I bought the house as reported by well company. Lately, it feels even lower flow. I'm hoping that squaring away other items will allow me to diagnose if pump is failing or if the well is failing. I haven't heard if my "uphill" neighbor is failing also.
Yes you should be good pulling straight up a engine hoist like mentioned above will be helpful be careful there is a possibility that the pump could be stuck and you don't want to mess it up because you have water now.
The county may have records or call local drilling companies maybe one of them drilled the well and has the record.
The county may have records or call local drilling companies maybe one of them drilled the well and has the record.
Boss
Rabble-Rouser
Metal, sometime poly tube. The county should have your records. Around here the wells are tagged with a stainless tag for easy Identification. Do you know who drilled it? They should have records but they may be old, good to have of you need to compare data to determine well health.
Lil'John
Former #278
Is PVC rolled?
Using this picture:
The sticker on the well casing is the company that did the flow/potability tests. They had no information about it.
If the well had a tag, should I be digging up the dirt to track it down?
I've reached out to my county's Environmental Health department to see if they have any information.
Boss
Rabble-Rouser
Not sure why you're asking if it's rolled
Well tags are usually stainless and strapped around the casing where you can see it. But some places may do it differently or not at all I suppose. When a company does a flow And potability test the 1st thing they do is check static level. That's how you verify well recovery during the flow test. So I'm not sure why they don't have your information. Sounds like you're getting yanked. Did you ask for the paperwork? If they don't have paperwork is bullshit.
Lil'John
Former #278
Not sure why you're asking if it's rolled
Maybe I misunderstood. I asked a question about interior tubing. You said usually PVC. I asked other options. You said poly tube/metal. I asked if the PVC was "rolled". My curiosity is whether I'm dealing with a bunch of straight pipe or a single tube.
The company did provide paper work. The depth and static water level were not filled in. I was given an initial flow rate and a final flow rate(4 hour later) along with the casing diameter(6" PVC). They claim '1" well pipe'... not sure what that wording really means. The work order is listed as production test, water quality test. This was done at time of house sale.
The drop pipe (pipe the pump is hanging on) if pvc is in straight sections either threaded or glued together.
If you are worried if the well is going dry (water drawing down to the pump intake) carefully un-hook the galvanized union turn the discharge sideways and start the pump, you can check flow like this by adapting it to a short 3/4 hose and filling a 5 gallon bucket by dipping the hose under water you will be able to see air bubbles if the pump is sucking air.
If you are worried if the well is going dry (water drawing down to the pump intake) carefully un-hook the galvanized union turn the discharge sideways and start the pump, you can check flow like this by adapting it to a short 3/4 hose and filling a 5 gallon bucket by dipping the hose under water you will be able to see air bubbles if the pump is sucking air.
Boss
Rabble-Rouser
They did a half ass job on the flow test then. I'm not surprised. ...Usually you take a static level reading after a period of no use. Run the pump open discharge and take a static reading every half hour or so while running a 2 or 4 hour (what ever required) Once the well test is finished you log the recovery time it takes to get back to the original static level. Also should be noting water quality through out (dirt, sand, smell, or whatever) All of which could make or break a pending real estate/negotiation deal because as you may know water is a big part of people's lives. Sucks to have shitty water or no water.
The well pipe in my experience it usually hung on 1-1/4" galv or black steel pipe. 1-1/4" PVC-80 has been the go to for shorter sets (around 300' or so). With PVC I prefered stainless steel couplings but plastic couplings are commonly used and can crack when over tightened or when setting/pulling the pump by hand. I installed and pulled by hand up to 200' and wouldn't want to pull anything deeper. It's a workout.
I'd have a helper hold/walk the well head for you if you decide to do it. You have to keep a tall arc as not to break it. It's not below some idiots to do glue joints and schedule 40 or whatever. Those are fun. They snap like twigs. The poly pipe would be used for really short sets (around 100') It will be attached to the well head by a hose barb and a couple screw clamps. The well head is always a steel nipple (around 6") and a tee with a plug on top.
The well pipe in my experience it usually hung on 1-1/4" galv or black steel pipe. 1-1/4" PVC-80 has been the go to for shorter sets (around 300' or so). With PVC I prefered stainless steel couplings but plastic couplings are commonly used and can crack when over tightened or when setting/pulling the pump by hand. I installed and pulled by hand up to 200' and wouldn't want to pull anything deeper. It's a workout.
I'd have a helper hold/walk the well head for you if you decide to do it. You have to keep a tall arc as not to break it. It's not below some idiots to do glue joints and schedule 40 or whatever. Those are fun. They snap like twigs. The poly pipe would be used for really short sets (around 100') It will be attached to the well head by a hose barb and a couple screw clamps. The well head is always a steel nipple (around 6") and a tee with a plug on top.
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Lil'John
Former #278
M92PV4U and Boss Thank you guys for your descriptions and information. Very much appreciated.
I found a website that shows a few well drill information. My direct parcel neighbor that is ~50' higher elevation and their well is maybe 200 to 400 feet from mine(based upon viewing Google map buildings) Theirs was drilled in 2001 to a depth of 125 ft, static depth of 40 ft, and yield of 45gpm.
The well cap had a small(1/2" NPT) port on it and I was able to look inside. The wiring is twisted pair(yellow/red) and doesn't appear to be attached to the "pipe". I can't tell what the pipe is. It isn't white or even off white so I'm doubting it is PVC. Would a magnet figure out if it is metal as apposed to poly tube? I think I can see water ~20 feet down... at least something shimmering in the light.
Is there a way to diagnose the pump while it is in the well? I've heard I can check amperage pull.
If I have to replace the pump, is it worth upgrading to 3/4 hp or 1 hp? Or stick with a quality 1/2 hp?
I found a website that shows a few well drill information. My direct parcel neighbor that is ~50' higher elevation and their well is maybe 200 to 400 feet from mine(based upon viewing Google map buildings) Theirs was drilled in 2001 to a depth of 125 ft, static depth of 40 ft, and yield of 45gpm.
The well cap had a small(1/2" NPT) port on it and I was able to look inside. The wiring is twisted pair(yellow/red) and doesn't appear to be attached to the "pipe". I can't tell what the pipe is. It isn't white or even off white so I'm doubting it is PVC. Would a magnet figure out if it is metal as apposed to poly tube? I think I can see water ~20 feet down... at least something shimmering in the light.
Is there a way to diagnose the pump while it is in the well? I've heard I can check amperage pull.
If I have to replace the pump, is it worth upgrading to 3/4 hp or 1 hp? Or stick with a quality 1/2 hp?
Important items to look at when changing the size of the pump & motor are
size of conductors (wires feeding the motor) the length of run from the breaker box to the well must also be accounted for.
the gpm output of the well.
size of pipe from the well to house for flow ratings.
if the well pumps ANY sand or dust upping the gallons per minute of the pump greatly increases the amount of sand/dust pumped. If we were going to put a pump in a unknown condition well we wouldkeep the gpm about 16-18 gpm range. To install the correct horsepower pump you need to know the water table and drawdown.
I doubt that the pump in the well is properly sized for the application the reason for the funky wiring is that it had a 1/2 hp 115v jet pump at one time and someone installed that.
size of conductors (wires feeding the motor) the length of run from the breaker box to the well must also be accounted for.
the gpm output of the well.
size of pipe from the well to house for flow ratings.
if the well pumps ANY sand or dust upping the gallons per minute of the pump greatly increases the amount of sand/dust pumped. If we were going to put a pump in a unknown condition well we wouldkeep the gpm about 16-18 gpm range. To install the correct horsepower pump you need to know the water table and drawdown.
I doubt that the pump in the well is properly sized for the application the reason for the funky wiring is that it had a 1/2 hp 115v jet pump at one time and someone installed that.
Boss
Rabble-Rouser
Amps are generally used tell you what hp your pump is. That being said , you need to know what pump is really down there before you can troubleshoot a bad pump..... or is it a ? pump ??? using amps. Yes amps can tell a story. But you need to confirm the pump/motor before that comes into play. Ohming the motor and performing a simple flow test is how you TS a Known 3 wire well pump and motor. ...But.... your pump has the controller built in (two wire) so ohming can't be done (other than to ground looking for a dead short). You (in this case) just need to know what pump HP you have, flow it open discharge , measure flow, verify amps. Motor be damned til it dies.
As for an upgrade, generally you need to decide what your needs are and go from there. If it meets all your demands then it's not broke, ...don't fix it. If you need more water. Yes you need to upgrade. That's why the well flow test is important. You have to know what your well is capable of. Generally a well driller will drill a well then test it for it's max capability. That's why those records are so important. Depth, static level, and available water is all key to what pump should be down there. Demand will tell you how many wells you need after that.
We can't recommend an upgrade unless you have this data.
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Lil'John
Former #278
Sounds reasonable on waiting for well info to figure out proper pump. How much of a role does intended use apply to pump size? There are only two people in the household with no outdoor watering.
Looking down an access hole, I believe I can see water that is reflecting the flashlight. I can't reach it with a 25 foot fishing tape. It also appears that the twisted pair power wires are not taped to the pipe.
From a functional standpoint, does the location of the pressure tank make a difference? Since I am going to replace my existing one, I'm giving thought to putting it next to the well head instead of inside the basement. I understand that I'll have to insulate/isolate the pressure tank if I put it outside since I get low temps/snow.
Looking down an access hole, I believe I can see water that is reflecting the flashlight. I can't reach it with a 25 foot fishing tape. It also appears that the twisted pair power wires are not taped to the pipe.
From a functional standpoint, does the location of the pressure tank make a difference? Since I am going to replace my existing one, I'm giving thought to putting it next to the well head instead of inside the basement. I understand that I'll have to insulate/isolate the pressure tank if I put it outside since I get low temps/snow.
Boss
Rabble-Rouser
1/2 hp would be fine. Irrigation and multiple bathrooms would be an issue that changes things.
I'll bet it's around 100' +/- then.
No, just need to keep the pressure switch at the tank. Keep a nice tight shed to keep the rodents out. They love the warmth and tend to piss/shit all over the place. They are spreaders of disease. Nobody seems to think about that. If its a short set on PVC you can actually get it out through a man door. I'f not you'll need an access directly over the well through the ceiling.