Welding issue. How to fix?

[jeepyj]

TLDR: Porosity due to rust from the back side of 1/4" steel. I keep getting volcanoes that grow up and pop. How do I stop doing that?


My best customer brought me a shitty project. It's an outdoor wood boiler that has two holes from the water jacket to the firebox. Obviously, water is bad for fire so they need repair.

They are in terrible places if I try to get to them from the inside, so I cut 'windows' in the outside of the water jacket. I can reach them now and have already filled one. The other one is the problem. Every time I try to add a bead [filling the hole/not adding a patch] I get the volcano. I'm trying not to add a patch because it's in a PITA area and the whole thing is pitted anyway. It's interesting to me that the firebox is pitted from 1/4 down to maybe 3/16 all over, but the holes clear through almost look like they were gouged out with an angle grinder. A deep 1/2" wide trough with a hole at the bottom with pretty thick metal all around it.

I plan on coating the repaired area with some 2400 degree JB Weld when it's done, but I'm not happy with the volcanoes.

Using a Hobart 190 with 75/25 and .030 wire.

Would I be better off using the fluxcore Lincoln that I use for rusty exhaust work?

.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Is he your best customer because he's dumb?

I think I'd try talking some sense into him, like shitcanning that clapped out piece of shit and buying a new one.

 

[Projectjunkie]

Can you bust up old welding rod and use it as filler with your wire feed like red neck tig?

this is probably the part where you need to manage expectations

 

[[486]]

dual shield generally burns into contamination good
sure you can't get it cleaner? Maybe get the area glowing red to get the shit burnt out before welding?

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

My tactic for that shit is to use dual Sheild weld it up grind it out weld it up and repeat till you get the contamination out. It sucks but pretty much you only option. Until you can get clean steel there your fucked.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Am I the only one who thinks that most likely those two holes are the first of many that are about to appear?

Gonna go through all that trouble just to have it spring another leak halfway into the heating season.

 

[Ted_Kaczynski]

Call customer and tell him you need 1/2 up front for materials. Go buy cocaine and hookers with 1/2 of the 1/2. Invite customer over, get him high, get him laid, send him home with his pile of shit keeping your 1/2, pure profit.

Or, tell him the truth.

 

[Brad]

To those saying dual shield, I am
ALL dual shield I have used is terrible for anything contaminated and will have pinholes and worm holes and just pure garbage of a weld.

and I agree with Muckin slusher. This is gonna turn into more. Fixing a few holes usually reveals the next weakest parts.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

To those saying dual shield, I am
ALL dual shield I have used is terrible for anything contaminated and will have pinholes and worm holes and just pure garbage of a weld.

and I agree with Muckin slusher. This is gonna turn into more. Fixing a few holes usually reveals the next weakest parts.

Lol all I use is dual sheild. I go through 3-400 pounds a year of it . Only my 120v welder has hard wire. If your getting worms your doing it wrong.

fyi worms are a indicator of too much voltage or not enough wire speed.

 

[jeepyj]

Gonna go through all that trouble just to have it spring another leak halfway into the heating season.

This is gonna turn into more. Fixing a few holes usually reveals the next weakest parts.

Maybe.

Mine was fixed about three seasons ago. For that $600, I've saved $6000 since then with no problems.

"Buy a new one" is sketchy here in The Peoples Republic of New York. If you are allowed one, it's upwards of $12000 because they've convinced people that burning wood causes air pollution and you need a fancy one that is 88% efficient with catalytic converters or some bullshit. The ones we already own are grandfathered in, and repairable forever as far as we're concerned. They're just made of metal. Electronics and all of the other bits are still available.

I'm sure I can have mine completely rebuilt for less than the cost of a new one. I'll reuse the metal siding so I can say I had it 'repaired'. They are a little too heavy for me to make in my shop. This one was brought in, hanging off the tractor bucket, with an extra man standing on the brush hog for ballast. It was still bouncing the back tires off of the ground.

There are Mennonites around that build heavy shit. They can 'repair' mine when it goes for real.

.

 

[Brad]

Lol all I use is dual sheild. I go through 3-400 pounds a year of it . Only my 120v welder has hard wire. If your getting worms your doing it wrong.

fyi worms are a indicator of too much voltage or not enough wire speed.

Welding through mill scale and over rust caused the biggest issues.

 

[tracyb]

dirty steel is always 6010 root pass and wire over that. for me


if it ever needs repair again getting jb weld out sucks

 

[total newb]

Are you sure its even metal in the area anymore?

Shit like that you have to cut out back solid metal again and patch/cover as needed

 

[ConwayMuddy]

Pictures of the area would be helpful. I weld dirty all day every day. Scale, rust, paint, oil,, water, fuck I had to weld through actual bird shit last week.

 

[Boss]

Clean..... CLEAN.....No, Cleaner! Grind that shit out. If that don't work your rig is brokey. Fix your rig.

 

[jeepyj]

weld it up grind it out weld it up and repeat till you get the contamination out. It sucks but pretty much you only option. Until you can get clean steel there your fucked.

Clean..... CLEAN.....No, Cleaner! Grind that shit out. If that don't work your rig is brokey. Fix your rig.

This worked. It's hooked back up and heating.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

This worked. It's hooked back up and heating.

Good deal. It usually takes 3-4 passes to get all the contamination out.

 

[Boss]

This worked. It's hooked back up and heating.

Shit in the metal is a nightmare when you can't get tools in there to get it out. Glad you got it figured out.

 

[rockyota83]

Clean..... CLEAN.....No, Cleaner! Grind that shit out. If that don't work your rig is brokey. Fix your rig.

i weld through dirt rust paint oil all the fucking time with fluxcore, zero issues with my welds

 

[Boss]

i weld through dirt rust paint oil all the fucking time with fluxcore, zero issues with my welds

Rooky or a God...I can't decide. I knew a guy like that once. I got really tired of fixing his leaks. He was a cocky fuck just like you.

 

[tracyb]

i weld through dirt rust paint oil all the fucking time with fluxcore, zero issues with my welds

right :rolleyes: whats your secret? the next guy fixes it fuggin production welders

sounds like the new hires at the shipyard.


i've been at it a while and some of the x rays surprise me.

i'll burn through some crap and not on the the clean, clean, clean bandwagon like all the weld forums but it is best for those a little green. i'm more along the line of Panzer clean enough, if shit happens dig it out. but 6010 with rod or wire cover is about as fool proof as it gets with dirty steel

 

[Gravy]

After grinding use a torch on the joint to heat it up, you will see contamination spots glow red fast. use a wire wheel on a grinder when its warm to clean it up and repeat as needed. Before you weld, wedge some flat copper on the back side of your weld joint and weld into/against the copper. when you're done welding one side knock the copper off with a hammer grind the back side and weld it.

 

[jeepyj]

i weld through dirt rust paint oil all the fucking time with fluxcore, zero issues with my welds

Me too! Up until this project that had to be watertight, I was just sticking pieces of metal together. They stick just fine.

 

[2big bronco]

i weld through dirt rust paint oil all the fucking time with fluxcore, zero issues with my welds

Yeah I never clean shit. Dont usually even drag a wire brush or grinder out when I'm working. And average I'll bet my welds are 90% of anyone that cleans everything 20×, preheats, and knows what they are doing. And 90% as good will still pass any weld inspection I may have.


Except my crawler, those welds look like poo

 

[rockyota83]

right :rolleyes: whats your secret? the next guy fixes it fuggin production welders
l

you would be wrong

99% of the shit i weld gets used by me or my business partner/laborers or my friends and neighbors, if something i welded has a problem im aware of it

occasionally i will not be happy with a weld and grind it out and reweld it

just today i made a water tank basket/mount for a horse trailer, i didnt grind the mill scale off the plate or the paint off the trailer and my welds look great, including the vertical and overhead(meh one horizontal didnt come out that good)

sometimes i clean something before welding, if its real dirty and or a critical piece/requires it

99% of the welding i do is fluxcore(the other 1% is stick), ive gone through hundreds of pounds of wire, but i am not a welder by trade nor do i weld every day

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

you would be wrong

99% of the shit i weld gets used by me or my business partner/laborers or my friends and neighbors, if something i welded has a problem im aware of it

occasionally i will not be happy with a weld and grind it out and reweld it

just today i made a water tank basket/mount for a horse trailer, i didnt grind the mill scale off the plate or the paint off the trailer and my welds look great, including the vertical and overhead(meh one horizontal didnt come out that good)

sometimes i clean something before welding, if its real dirty and or a critical piece/requires it

99% of the welding i do is fluxcore(the other 1% is stick), ive gone through hundreds of pounds of wire, but i am not a welder by trade nor do i weld every day

Love the smell of welded paint.

 

[Boss]

you would be wrong

99% of the shit i weld gets used by me or my business partner/laborers or my friends and neighbors, if something i welded has a problem im aware of it

occasionally i will not be happy with a weld and grind it out and reweld it

just today i made a water tank basket/mount for a horse trailer, i didnt grind the mill scale off the plate or the paint off the trailer and my welds look great, including the vertical and overhead(meh one horizontal didnt come out that good)

sometimes i clean something before welding, if its real dirty and or a critical piece/requires it

99% of the welding i do is fluxcore(the other 1% is stick), ive gone through hundreds of pounds of wire, but i am not a welder by trade nor do i weld every day

You would change your ways if your welds need to hold any pressure or xray. Like I said, I worked with a guy like you. Except he had real pretty welds.

Our boss saw fit to put him in the shop. He thought just burning through shit was a way of life. He would also butt his welds together on pipe/fittings rather than burning past because "Purdy". They had him build manifolds and piping for a municipal job we had. There was a lot of powder coated piping on two levels of a building already installed. His fitting was spot on but when it came time to pressure test it failed. I had the only truck set up for TIG so I was called to fix the leaks. I counted 40+ ...all with water in the pin holes, powder coated & hard to reach places now. I told the dude a million times to weld past his starts and stops prior to this as leaks keep happening with him. He just couldn't bring himself to do it I guess. He eventually joined a fitters union and quit....hopefully they kicked his ass good. Every leak was a start/stop and looked seamless. Just like when you get dirt/whatever in a weld, once you have porosity it has to be ground out or you'll just be chasing it as it vents out of your weld.

Just like everything else. It all depends on your point of view. OP was dealing with a leak. It's a whole different animal than globbing on a doohickey to a whatyamacallit.

 

[tracyb]

rockyota83

well yeah, when the welds dont matter you can weld though a anything and send it. we're all reading your post thru the context of this thread, its obvious you dont touch boilers.


when i worked shipyard we had structural welders and seam welders. 'cuz anyone can run a fillet but not everyone can keep the water out.

 

[rockyota83]

You would change your ways if your welds need to hold any pressure or xray. Like I said, I worked with a guy like you. Except he had real pretty welds.

Our boss saw fit to put him in the shop. He thought just burning through shit was a way of life. He would also butt his welds together on pipe/fittings rather than burning past because "Purdy". They had him build manifolds and piping for a municipal job we had. There was a lot of powder coated piping on two levels of a building already installed. His fitting was spot on but when it came time to pressure test it failed. I had the only truck set up for TIG so I was called to fix the leaks. I counted 40+ ...all with water in the pin holes, powder coated & hard to reach places now. I told the dude a million times to weld past his starts and stops prior to this as leaks keep happening with him. He just couldn't bring himself to do it I guess. He eventually joined a fitters union and quit....hopefully they kicked his ass good. Every leak was a start/stop and looked seamless. Just like when you get dirt/whatever in a weld, once you have porosity it has to be ground out or you'll just be chasing it as it vents out of your weld.

Just like everything else. It all depends on your point of view. OP was dealing with a leak. It's a whole different animal than globbing on a doohickey to a whatyamacallit.

i always weld past my starts and stops thank you very much, and ive welded 4 sets of weld on beadlocks that hold air no problem i will start past my starting point and go back to where i really wanted to stop too

i do agree with you though on your general statement, i havent welded up a boiler and im far from a professional, id imagine you know way more than i do when it comes to welding. im a simple backyard welder, probably more than half the stuff im welding is some kind of repair job in a rural ranch area. i can tell you though the stuff i repair gets used hard(which is usually why it needed repair in the first place) by stupid people, myself included(you should see the way i drive my buggy), ive been welding for about 23yrs as an amateur and its very rare for one of my welds to be a problem. i can also tell you im still learning, maybe someday i will learn tig

fwiw i dont weld through powder coat, that shit gets grinded off

 

[rockyota83]

rockyota83

well yeah, when the welds dont matter you can weld though a anything and send it. we're all reading your post thru the context of this thread, its obvious you dont touch boilers.


when i worked shipyard we had structural welders and seam welders. 'cuz anyone can run a fillet but not everyone can keep the water out.

correct

as long as it does its job and doesnt fail i call it a good weld, and no i havent ever welded a boiler, id probably tell them to take it to you