US police and the use of firearms

[Provience]

So realistically the Tribal lands around here have very little police, basically they are "Defunded". It doesn't work.

People go missing quite often and are never found, alot of cold cases.
Communities don't do jack as the attitude is if it doesn't happen to me I don't care.
Courts are pretty lacking.

Something interesting I didn't know was that alot of local res crimes spiked when Meth came into play. Once the local LE stepped up with dogs and more emphasis on "drugs" the rates dropped back off.

lots of reservations are great and current examples of what progressive utopias guided by anti-capitalist white exclusionary people can look like

I won't act like making meth legal is some cure-all or anything, but having it be legal does open the door to a shift in attitude towards treatment and, i'd like to hope, an increase in enforcement of other major crimes and property crimes that will hopefully get people in touch with resources that can actually do them some good.

 

[arse_sidewards]

except that sort of "win" is absolutely, in no way, not even close, to what any of the vocal "defund" movements want or desire, or any sort of way that departments that have cut or modified budgets or claimed "defund" have done or are proposing.

Oh I'm fully aware of that hence why I don't support those movements and try not to use the word "defund".

 

[evernoob]

Absolutely. Having it packaged responsibly by Walgreen's would eliminate the Fentanyl dice roll that get a lot of people. People have been altering their minds since cave man days. Nothing will stop us from trying to turn off our big brains for a while. Let them do it. Make tax money on it like the ABC store and put that money towards addiction treatment.

DWI laws and other means to keep people from hurting others while impaired would still need to be in place along with ad campaigns to reinforce. "Gettin High? Stay home!"

People will just take hot doses of fentanyl and then have their friends dose them with narcan when they die.

Humans altered their consciousness with nicotine tobacco, going out in the wilderness with no food or water, subjecting themselves to agonizing pain, drinking rotten water from the grain pile, eating a cactus, chewing leaves, and similar things. In many cases, the alteration is only once per lifetime, and doesn't exist in all tribes. In other cases, a Shaman does the actual alteration, and then channels the spirits for everyone else.

The most common form of consciousness alteration is dancing, which doesn't involve external chemicals or stimuli at all. Having an 8 hour pow-wow around the campfire will get you in a different state.

All of those things are a lot different than using modern medical technology to shoot synthetic chemicals into your body to induce a state of death.

This is a case of degrees and you see the difference.

 

[evernoob]

lots of reservations are great and current examples of what progressive utopias guided by anti-capitalist white exclusionary people can look like

I won't act like making meth legal is some cure-all or anything, but having it be legal does open the door to a shift in attitude towards treatment and, i'd like to hope, an increase in enforcement of other major crimes and property crimes that will hopefully get people in touch with resources that can actually do them some good.

1992 called and wants its edgy argument back.

Hard drugs like coke, amphetamines, and opiate/oids need to be outlawed and strictly controlled in use. All three re-wire the brain, in most cases permanently. It may take 10-20 years for a hardcore heroin addict to regain some semblance of a reward pathway, the condition is called Anhedonia.

Even LSD and alcohol or MDMA don't fuck with the physical brain like that.

What needs to happen is what IS happening: a re-scheduling of drugs like MJ, Psilocybin shrooms, and hopefully LSD and MDMA, all 4 of which have real medical uses. No, MJ is not a cure-all. It helps very sick people with nausea and appetite, and it treats siezure conditions. That's it. But it does work and recreationally it's not catastrophics. Same for Psychedelics.

You guys are glomming in Meth and Heroin with that. That is not right.

We shouldn't flip-flop on this. A rational, degreed approach is necessary.

 

[evernoob]

Not just Ohio, but virtually everywhere. 10-15 years ago heroin didn't exist in this region. Yes, rx opiates were everywhere... sometimes abused. There was virtually zero crime associated with the pain pills because if you wanted a buzz you simply went to the dr with your "bad back".

Now you can get your dick bit off by an alligator and will be lucky if they even give you a couple Tylenol 3's. Hair-run is everywhere, possibly even more popular than meth, and the relatively harmless functional addicts have all turned into flu-zombies. Cracking down on the pill writers simply moved us from a level 4 drug problem to a level 7 drug problem.

I got a root canal and told the dentist that even though they don't usually prescribe Tylenol 3 for it, I want it. I want no pain. We are in the modern age and I don't care that other people do drug-seeking behavior with it. I know I don't. I will finish every single Oxycodone in the bottle though I've been on 2 separate courses of prescribed Opioids, the 2nd time hydrocodone 10s and Oxy 10s simultaneously. I was on a LOT of opioids.

Turns out the treatment for sciatica is sit-ups. :rolleyes:

Having the worst flu I ever had for 10 days didn't behoove me to run down and score some smack. Neither did the diarrhea backed up behind the giant impacted log of shit that had built up during my final week of the script. How people go through that cycle year after year I'll never know. There is definitely a difference between brains that's for sure. I don't even understand how you can be on your 4th solid day of sweating it out in bed with no sleep, your bones aching, and thinking "Gee, I need to get down to the pharmacy and get more of this!" That shit was awful.

And that's part of the reason why I think hard drugs like Opioids need to be outlawed and strictly controlled. That is a hard-core re-wiring of the brain for addicts to go through that. That is not natural, and it has nothing to do with tribal Shamanism.

 

[evernoob]

I don't think the police issue is a gun issue. It's an accountability issue. I say we treat the cops just like they treat an every day citizen.

If they pull a gun on you - They are charged with pointing a firearm and need to prove in court why they were justified in doing so. If they shoot someone they are charged with murder and need to prove in court why taking a life was necessary. If they are speeding down the highway without lights or sirens or driving dangerously they should be charged with stunting and have to prove in court why their driving behavior was appropriate. If they tackle someone and injure them they should be charged with assault etc. Three proven guilty charges inside of a 5 year period and they are gone and barred from ever working in law enforcement ever again. This doesn't prevent them from taking immediate action, but it will certainly make them think twice about it. Most do so anyways, but there are plenty of jerk wads that don't think things through and escalate situations for the thrill of it.

Citizens should also be able to raise complaints of brutality or corruption with an impartial 3rd party and if the complaint is founded then the officer receives a permanent black mark on their record. 5 complaints found to be legit and they lose their jobs and are barred from the profession. Put a system in place that if you have a Karen who lodges complaints or charges against police officers chronically that they will be dealt with harshly with massive fines and jail time.

Cops under investigation should be on unpaid leave until they are proven innocent. If they are proven guilty they forfeit that pay. If innocent they are back paid with interest.

Yeah, the courts would be bogged down for a while until the police behavior changes, but I'd rather hire a thousand more public service workers to deal with that backlog than to live in fear of my life should I have a chance encounter with a brutal cop with an itchy trigger finger. I still believe that most cops are doing the right thing most of the time in their own work, but all of them are guilty of following the thin blue line and allowing their bad apple co-workers to get away with murder without doing something about it. Once we weed the assholes out, then the courts would slow down and things will go back to normal.

I think that simply defunding them won't correct the issues. Getting rid of them outright would be a whole other disaster in of itself. We need law enforcement, but they need to be held to higher standards than your average ever-day citizen.

Police have extraordinary powers in order to enforce the Law. Policing is not a dangerous job, but it shouldn't be. Police have a right to protect themselves. They have the right to detain people and pull their gun.

The degree that Police are immune from prosecution and sanction needs to change. Qualified Immunity is necessary. Arguing for abolishing it will just put the other camp into "well we can't do that" and nothing will change.

Phillip Brailsford should not be getting a lifetime pension for shooting Daniel Shaver. THAT'S what needs to change. That is corruption in the Police Union and the Courts (they didn't allow Brailsford's YOU'RE FUCKED AR-15 into the trial).

 

[Provience]

Until I watched a video by Phil Vischer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUwcs9qJXY

.

Notes as i watch the video:

@0:30 - regarding household wealth, earning "inequality". that is a pretty big 'false flag' because it is highly skewed. We are all, or should be, well aware that the wealthiest 1% have more wealth than the bottom 50% (or so, i'm not pulling numbers right now). Am i going to say that the 1% are fairly represented with black people? No, and i don't give a fuck. What this does though, is HEAVILY skew the household average wealth to the "white" side. it completely fails to address the significantly more important and significantly closer "average" in terms of numbers. Hell, chop the top and bottom 5% (or 2% or whatever) households off that list and the numbers are significantly closer. For how it impacts school and small business? that is a community issue, that isn't a black/white issue. Yes, there are lots of wealthy blacks, but there are much fewer 100,000,000-aires. we shouldn't be "factoring that in" we should be "factoring that out" because, frankly, the extremes don't make for good comparisons.

In no way am i trying to say that there aren't more poor black families as a % of society. that is a given, but it also isn't something that "can be solved" through government activism.

@1:24 of course big D states post civil war enacted a fuckton of racist laws, that is what government activism gets us. I don't understand how ANYBODY can look at what state activism gets us, from current to deep history, and somehow say "ah yes, that was bad, but more activism will help!"

@4:00 "in 1968 81% of americans believed law and order had broken down in this country, many of them blamed Communists and 'Negroes who start riots'" - yup, pretty similar to today. no need to offer us any context on who blamed what for how much but it is obvious THEN and TODAY that Communists are subversive and love to use "negro angst" as a tool to dismantle capitalism. today we don't blame "negroes" for the riots, but the communists haven't given up or changed tactics! They are still playing their mental slaves as fiddle and pawn.

@4:30 yup, redlining is bad. great side effect of how fucked up the FHA was and an obvious reason why it takes effort to get into home ownership. why then do Dems favor "rent control" and other such schemes to actively keep "the poors" from home ownership? why do they malign the suburbs as "white spaces" ? because THEY know that home ownership improves communities and helps build wealth. Maybe i will go dig up some numbers and make some home wealth overlap charts. I don't disagree that 'blacks' are generally lower than 'whites', but it isn't as extreme as it is being presented and 'rent control' schemes (and subsizided housing and low rent projects [which both help 'whites' in raw numbers more than blacks] ) and encouraged urban living are a significant reason

@6:50 yeah, the war on drugs is shit. it started before the 1960's. 1951 national guard intervened to stop a "white riot against a black family". good for the NG, collectivist [race] nationalists and [race] communists should be stopped. the war on drugs is shit and the media plays into it, no big surprise.

@9:40 well damn, now i have to give praise to clinton cut funding for public housing and increased funding for prisons if he could have done it without the "crime bill" he might have been a good bit less bad. This is also why i've called Trump a "clinton democrat" several times over the years

@11:53 "no relation between crime/incarceration or general use/imprisonment due to war on drugs" (to sum up about 2 minutes of dialogue) and yet again OF COURSE! We have tried the 'high deterrent' shit to fight the war on drugs, it doesn't work and it doesn't matter. is that 'unfair to black people'? No, i only use that to trigger political conversations. is that unfair to people who use/sell drugs? YES! So, yet again, end the war on drugs, watch police abuse along with it. 1:106 white men in jail vs 1:14 black men in jail. I don't think that anybody will dispute that black people commit more crimes, i'm curious how many are wrongly imprisoned and i'd strongly like to see all those people released and restituted. That won't change the fact that more black people as a % of the community will be behind bars though. generally meaningless statistic.

@13:44 the new jersey turnpike i'll have to find the study on that, it was something like 99% of the vehicles pulled over had NO WAY of identifying the race of the operated at the time of finding cause to interact it literally supports the notion that black people commit more crimes with blind enforcement. "fuck the system" is not a mentality that helps with that compared to "let's give the system some respect". ALL of his traffic studies gloss over any possible why or cause or reasoning.

@14:31 philando castille was murdered by the police. fact. I blame the gun control culture for it, but maybe the cop killed him for being black, doesn't matter. The fact that the officer was ACQUITTED is a fucking tragedy and should be examined to find places where the system needs to be reformed.


@14:53 "unconcious bias in schools as white teachers often assume black students are less intelligent" Tell THAT to fucking Rutgers U that says "black people can't grammer and we can't grade them down for it" tell that to Public Schools that say "grammer is racist, you shouldn't grade black kids down for it" tell that to SAT board that says "we need to grade on a socio-race curve" tell that to the CA UC/CSU system that says "we won't consider SAT/ACT scores because it keeps blacks from getting in with their low scores". Hell, tell that to Joe Biden "poor kids can be as smart as white kids". DECADES of 'programming' and messaging that blacks are less than because of their skin, held down because of their skin, are coming from the racists that support the large government programs that this guy seems to think (based on his tone and messaging) that we need MORE of. Notice he doesn't say FUCKALL about the bias of the "black teacher"

@16:30 white male baby has 1:23 chance of going to jail, black male baby has 1:4 chance. alright, well that has a fuckton to do with personal actions in life, where you were raised and how. I'm not going to say that equity is a goal or anything like that, and I like to think that ending the war on drugs and guns would help bring some parity to that, but that isn't a current stat because of redlining from the 1950's (3-4 generations ago)

@16:45 "i am just asking you to CARE" wait, so simply most people just don't CARE enough?

I fucking care and i've cared for a long damn time. some bullshit communist revolution, ending the police, destroying the white man in the name of equity, all that is bullshit and not caring. In a decade, if the "average white household" is still 7x that of the "average black household", does it even fucking matter? It doesn't matter today. I would love to see everybody's household average worth increase, and that has been the case. just because the rich get richer doesn't mean the poor get poorer, it means the rich get richer and the poor get richer. If black and white households had EQUAL average wealth, would that mean we have solved racism in the USA? not a chance.




anyways, those are my realtime reactions as i watched the video. i'm willing to discuss any and all of them and i'll probably be able to form better thoughts with time thank you for sharing it.

 

[evernoob]

But on the flip side, what about the cops that are trying to catch criminals?

Case in point, we have a "tweaker patrol" in the town I live in. They are looking for drug activity. I got profiled hard one day making a quick trip to the parts store in my beater car. Sure it was a nuisance, but the interaction with the cop after he pulled me over was about 45 seconds after he saw my credentials and the fact I'm not a meth head. Sure it took time out of my day, but I fully support them looking for drug activity and catching the "bad guys".

He gave a total bullshit reason for pulling me over too.

You sang a different tune in another thread. You were pissed about the cops and claimed they had some vendetta against you. You did this in multiple posts. I accused you of having some shady dealings you were so bad with it.

Now you are saying it was all ok. That is NOT what you said before.

 

[Splib]

I got a root canal and told the dentist that even though they don't usually prescribe Tylenol 3 for it, I want it. I want no pain. We are in the modern age and I don't care that other people do drug-seeking behavior with it. I know I don't. I will finish every single Oxycodone in the bottle though I've been on 2 separate courses of prescribed Opioids, the 2nd time hydrocodone 10s and Oxy 10s simultaneously. I was on a LOT of opioids.

Turns out the treatment for sciatica is sit-ups. :rolleyes:

Having the worst flu I ever had for 10 days didn't behoove me to run down and score some smack. Neither did the diarrhea backed up behind the giant impacted log of shit that had built up during my final week of the script. How people go through that cycle year after year I'll never know. There is definitely a difference between brains that's for sure. I don't even understand how you can be on your 4th solid day of sweating it out in bed with no sleep, your bones aching, and thinking "Gee, I need to get down to the pharmacy and get more of this!" That shit was awful.

And that's part of the reason why I think hard drugs like Opioids need to be outlawed and strictly controlled. That is a hard-core re-wiring of the brain for addicts to go through that. That is not natural, and it has nothing to do with tribal Shamanism.

This is not the barking panting ****ing asshole in other posts. Are there two of you or, sadly, are you a POS endlessly trolling your tiny for Micahel.Gonzalez dick for dick bites ? Serious question.

 

[Provience]

1992 called and wants its edgy argument back.

Hard drugs like coke, amphetamines, and opiate/oids need to be outlawed and strictly controlled in use. All three re-wire the brain, in most cases permanently. It may take 10-20 years for a hardcore heroin addict to regain some semblance of a reward pathway, the condition is called Anhedonia.

Even LSD and alcohol or MDMA don't fuck with the physical brain like that.

What needs to happen is what IS happening: a re-scheduling of drugs like MJ, Psilocybin shrooms, and hopefully LSD and MDMA, all 4 of which have real medical uses. No, MJ is not a cure-all. It helps very sick people with nausea and appetite, and it treats siezure conditions. That's it. But it does work and recreationally it's not catastrophics. Same for Psychedelics.

You guys are glomming in Meth and Heroin with that. That is not right.

We shouldn't flip-flop on this. A rational, degreed approach is necessary.

I offer up the decriminalization of meth and heroin (all the opiums) because i absolutely believe that the people who smoke meth and scrape lightbulbs already don't give a fuck about shit and will be dead or locked up or self-reform for other reasons. legal opium dens will put a dent in the pill and heroin crisis, most people will go with the legal route.

don't leave a reason. any of them being on a list generate cause for abuse. People have been chewing coke leaves for thousands of years, if it weren't illegal, maybe it'd be more common here, i don't know, it would likely serve as a deterrent for the 'glamour' of processed coke.

if only that 'edgy argument' held more sway in 19 2 2 instead of 1992 a whole fuckton of this shit could have been avoided.

Thanks busy body womens groups, racist big government statists and uppity europeans!

 

[evernoob]

I offer up the decriminalization of meth and heroin (all the opiums) because i absolutely believe that the people who smoke meth and scrape lightbulbs already don't give a fuck about shit and will be dead or locked up or self-reform for other reasons. legal opium dens will put a dent in the pill and heroin crisis, most people will go with the legal route.

don't leave a reason. any of them being on a list generate cause for abuse. People have been chewing coke leaves for thousands of years, if it weren't illegal, maybe it'd be more common here, i don't know, it would likely serve as a deterrent for the 'glamour' of processed coke.

if only that 'edgy argument' held more sway in 19 2 2 instead of 1992 a whole fuckton of this shit could have been avoided.

Thanks busy body womens groups, racist big government statists and uppity europeans!

Temperance is fucking social poison. But just because a bunch of Puritan maniacs fucked up society as much as possible doesn't mean we should be signing off on hardcore synthetic or processed drugs which change a human being into something other than human.

Another part of the equation on the reform of Law Enforcement is Corrections Officers. They are the ones letting drugs into prisons. Why is this a thing? Why haven't we stomped that out yet?

So, you don't just give up on the problem. You fix the problem. You are advocating a flip-flop and that is never a solution.

There will always be a few dope addicts, but it doesn't have to be like it is. We don't have to have a serious coke problem just because lazy Farmer Brown is too much of a fuck to invest in an apple-picking machine. And we do need a physical border, and we should make Mexico pay for that shit, Guatemala too.

 

[evernoob]

This is not the barking panting ****ing asshole in other posts. Are there two of you or, sadly, are you a POS endlessly trolling your tiny for Micahel.Gonzalez dick for dick bites ? Serious question.

I'm not in the habit of explaining my personality.

This has nothing to do with personality. I take each issue separately. People claim to not be in a 'party' but then when they meet someone who really isn't in a 'party', they freak out a little bit.

That person is me. I am not in a group and I don't have a broad philosophy other than trying to rationally attack each issue. Just because I rationally attack Conservacucks for cucking on their social obligations to enforce their will and willingness to sell fellow Flyover and Rural slobs into penury and disenfranchisement does not mean that I am inconsistent.

It means that the issues, and therefore you, and everybody else, are inconsistent.

For example, I will consistently call for the de-funding of vast swathes of Academia. But that doesn't mean I want all the freaks out of the Universities. Universities are the place for a certain number of freaks, and I would defend a Professor that calls for the dyeing of all white children black so we can all be equal. My bitch is the absolute juggernaut of Marxism that Universities have become.

So after criticizing Unis, I might come back on IBB and go "whoa whoa whoa, Professor Pocahontas has a point, we do need to protect subversive speech on campus.", then IBB will have a coniption fit and call me schizophrenic.

I am explaining your reaction, not mine.

 

[Splib]

I'm not in the habit of explaining my personality.

This has nothing to do with personality. I take each issue separately. People claim to not be in a 'party' but then when they meet someone who really isn't in a 'party', they freak out a little bit.

That person is me. I am not in a group and I don't have a broad philosophy other than trying to rationally attack each issue. Just because I rationally attack Conservacucks for cucking on their social obligations to enforce their will and willingness to sell fellow Flyover and Rural slobs into penury and disenfranchisement does not mean that I am inconsistent.

It means that the issues, and therefore you, and everybody else, is inconsistent.

WTF ? Ghetto Gumby, Pokey and Jiggly Puff. Over an out. Dont touch the rusty spoons.

 

[KarlVP]

You sang a different tune in another thread. You were pissed about the cops and claimed they had some vendetta against you. You did this in multiple posts. I accused you of having some shady dealings you were so bad with it.

Now you are saying it was all ok. That is NOT what you said before.

You got the wrong guy, pal.

 

[evernoob]

You got the wrong guy, pal.

Hmmmmm.... ok.

Somebody else then has a story about driving a shitbox truck and getting pulled over by the cops and harassed for meth, in a rural area. You said car so you are different.

Remarkable similarity. So the cops are pulling over grubby guys in beaters. That's not right either. Every single person here fits that profile at some time or other

 

[Russell]

Tough guy, got it.

The criminal chooses to be there, the cop doesn't. I don't know what you do for a living, but should your boss expect you to be financially responsible for every mistake or accident, discovered now or later, that you make on the job? Nearly everyone would shit a brick if that policy was enacted at their place of work.

I'm an instrumentation technician at a major NGL fractionation facility. I deal with a lot of very explosive stuff under extremely high pressures and temperatures. If I mess up, things can and will blow up and kill a bunch of people while causing immense equipment damage or in a better case millions of dollars worth of product can be lost due to off spec production or dumping process to flare when the plant gets knocked on it's head. I can and will be held personally financially responsible if I mess up so bad that a unit explodes and kills someone because of my gross negligence. Both in the loss of my job and from fines / lawsuits directed at me personally by authorities and other worker's families should something happen. So yup, I know exactly what it means when every decision I make is scrutinized, especially if I screw up. This is actually pretty typical in O&G up this way. All of our work is procedural so I have to prove that I followed every step without any deviations on every job I do. Knuckle dragging morons or people who do their own thing regardless of what the procedure states don't last long in my line of work.

If I can do it, so can the police.

 

[Provience]

Knuckle dragging morons or people who do their own thing regardless of what the procedure states don't last long in my line of work.

If I can do it, so can the police.

yeah, there sure as hell isn't some line by line procedure that tells you exactly what you need to do with policing

I understand your point, but it's pretty clouded.

 

[Johann]

People will just take hot doses of fentanyl and then have their friends dose them with narcan when they die.

Humans altered their consciousness with nicotine tobacco, going out in the wilderness with no food or water, subjecting themselves to agonizing pain, drinking rotten water from the grain pile, eating a cactus, chewing leaves, and similar things. In many cases, the alteration is only once per lifetime, and doesn't exist in all tribes. In other cases, a Shaman does the actual alteration, and then channels the spirits for everyone else.

The most common form of consciousness alteration is dancing, which doesn't involve external chemicals or stimuli at all. Having an 8 hour pow-wow around the campfire will get you in a different state.

All of those things are a lot different than using modern medical technology to shoot synthetic chemicals into your body to induce a state of death.

This is a case of degrees and you see the difference.

Well, you might want to explain the buddy system to Tom Petty & Prince, oh wait...

Lots of ways to alter yourself these days. If individuals are not smart enough to do modern injectable drugs and live I have little sympathy. They will still get them and try to use them if they want even if they are illegal. But it is a self correcting problem.

But you already knew that. ;)