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US police and the use of firearms

KarlVP

KarlVP

Not Sure
Joined
May 19, 2020
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381
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Crusty's Brewing, Wa
We had a good talk at work today. What if we took away guns from the every day police officers? Not the special units, just the beat cops, the highway patrol, and the 911 responders?

What would happen? Would cop killings go up? Would civilian deaths by police officers go down?

What if there was a situation where the beat cops needed deadly force? Would the "elite firearms team" be able to respond in time?

I'm going to link this Wiki page as food for thought. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom

I love guns, love the 2A, have a very high respect for the police, and I wonder. If we took away the guns for a few years as a test, would it improve our situation, or make it worse? The media is blowing this way out of proportion and it sucks ass. Is it worth it to try this as a solution and risk the lives of the folks that protect us every day?
 
A cop is a citizen and has the same rights as every other citizen to own, carry, use a firearm. A cop should also face the same repercussions as any other citizen.

they should have no more rights, but no less rights.
 
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It's not an issue of guns. Hell, it's not just one issue. Just like guns can't be to blame with gun owners because they're in inanimate object, they can't be to blame with police. It's the person, not the object.

Defunding them isn't as insane as the term sounds. I've got no problem shifting a lot of responsibility away from police over time. Let them enforce the law, but people need to remember what that means. Ultimately, a law requires force, violence, in order to be enforced. That needs to be kept in mind when passing legislation.

From there, get rid of the police unions and let municipalities fire bad cops. Implement actual consequences for shitty behavior including charging police when they break the laws they're supposed to enforce. Until we can purge the system of the "us vs them" mentality and reel in the militarization and general shitty cop culture nothing will change. If municipalities are too scared to punish bad cops because they might get sued or fellow cops are too afraid to go against the bad ones because of the 'thin blue line' horseshit, retaliation, ect nothing will change.

There also needs to be a fundamental shift in how people think of police. Particularly in calling them over every little fucking thing. Too many old ladies, housewives, ect with nothing better to do than mind other people's business and call the police over petty bullshit.
 
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ExWrench said:
I think that's impractical & idiotic. I don't see how disarming cops would decrease crime in any way. Likely the opposite.

Better idea = take mental health issues off the cops' plates & put it back in the hands of mental health professionals.
Click to expand...

How does this stop a guy just chillin and playing video games from getting shot?
 
Is that a troll, or is there something in the water down there?

The only "thought" suggested by that irrelevant-to-the-US wiki page is that the UK has 50 gun deaths a year, while the US has 8,000. The only way that is relevant is if we ban and eliminate guns here, too.

The police exist as the violent enforcers of society's morals. Disarm them and you're further enabling armed criminals.

Disarm them, and you make them into social work counselors.
 
grumpy356 said:
A cop is a citizen and has the same rights as every other citizen to own, carry, use a firearm. A cop
should also face the same repercussions as any other citizen.

they should have no more rights, but no less rights.
Click to expand...

Motorcharge said:
From there, get rid of the police unions and let municipalities fire bad cops. Implement actual consequences for shitty behavior including charging police when they break the laws they're supposed to enforce. Until we can purge the system of the "us vs them" mentality and reel in the militarization and general shitty cop culture nothing will change. If municipalities are too scared to punish bad cops because they might get sued or fellow cops are too afraid to go against the bad ones because of the 'thin blue line' horseshit, retaliation, ect nothing will change.

There also needs to be a fundamental shift in how people think of police. Particularly in calling them over every little fucking thing. Too many old ladies, housewives, ect with nothing better to do than mind other people's business and call the police over petty bullshit.
Click to expand...

^ both these things.

Nobody would care about the cops shooting people if they were held accountable the same way that normal people who shoot people are.
 
grumpy356 said:
A cop is a citizen and has the same rights as every other citizen to own, carry, use a firearm. A cop
should also face the same repercussions as any other citizen.

they should have no more rights, but no less rights.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately cops have more carry rights when off duty than the rest of us.
 
Getting rid of police unions won't make any difference other than being a huge fight... Before the rise of police unions ,cops were just as brutal, maybe more so. They didn't have body armour and Glocks, just 38's and Thompsons...lol
 
Hold cops accountable, don't take their defense.
Cop beatings, cop shootings will go up.

Not a good experiment
 
arse_sidewards said:
^ both these things.

Nobody would care about the cops shooting people if they were held accountable the same way that normal people who shoot people are.
Click to expand...

This exactly. Also, there needs to be more training. LE should be training 1 day a week, or 2 days a month minimum. Firearms handling/marksmanship... jujitsu/martial arts... scene deescalation... etc etc etc
 
Motorcharge said:
It's not an issue of guns. Hell, it's not just one issue. Just like guns can't be to blame with gun owners because they're in inanimate object, they're can't be to blame with police. It's the person, not the object.

Defunding them isn't as insane as the term sounds. I've got no problem shifting a lot of responsibility away from police over time. Let them enforce the law, but people need to remember what that means. Ultimately, a law requires force, violence, in order to be enforced. That needs to be kept in mind when passing legislation.

From there, get rid of the police unions and let municipalities fire bad cops. Implement actual consequences for shitty behavior including charging police when they break the laws they're supposed to enforce. Until we can purge the system of the "us vs them" mentality and reel in the militarization and general shitty cop culture nothing will change. If municipalities are too scared to punish bad cops because they might get sued or fellow cops are too afraid to go against the bad ones because of the 'thin blue line' horseshit, retaliation, ect nothing will change.

There also needs to be a fundamental shift in how people think of police. Particularly in calling them over every little fucking thing. Too many old ladies, housewives, ect with nothing better to do than mind other people's business and call the police over petty bullshit.
Click to expand...

Lots of TRUTH here.
 
the issue would go away if police departments would quit hiring people afraid of their own shadows and assholes
 
BarfBag said:
the issue would go away if police departments would quit hiring people afraid of their own shadows and assholes
Click to expand...

Yeah.... exactly opposite of this.

Cops hire ex-military and people who believe they are Billy Badasss who want to exert their authority, escalate situations, and have the public bow to their presence, and get their feelings hurt, when some shitbag insults them, instead of shrugging it off like the game it is.

Any cop who takes any insult personally or escalates any situation that could be reasonably be de-escalated should be barred from the profession.
 
grumpy356 said:
Yeah.... exactly opposite of this.

Cops hire ex-military and people who believe they are Billy Badasss who want to exert their authority, escalate situations, and have the public bow to their presence, and get their feelings hurt, when some shitbag insults them, instead of shrugging it off like the game it is.

Any cop who takes any insult personally or escalates any situation that could be reasonably be de-escalated should be barred from the profession.
Click to expand...

the guys you described fall into the asshole category
 
flecker said:
How does this stop a guy just chillin and playing video games from getting shot?
Click to expand...

How does disarming cops keep folks from being victimized by emboldened thugs?

You can't prevent all wrong actions from taking place. Don't single-issue this.
 
subybaja said:
Is that a troll, or is there something in the water down there?

The only "thought" suggested by that irrelevant-to-the-US wiki page is that the UK has 50 gun deaths a year, while the US has 8,000. The only way that is relevant is if we ban and eliminate guns here, too.

The police exist as the violent enforcers of society's morals. Disarm them and you're further enabling armed criminals.

Disarm them, and you make them into social work counselors.
Click to expand...

They also have 1/6 of our population along with very few guns
 
87manche said:
could just end the war on drugs, which is how we got to a militarized police force with incredibly broad powers.

The problem is literally in the name.
Click to expand...

It started waaay before that.
 
flecker said:
How does this stop a guy just chillin and playing video games from getting shot?
Click to expand...

It does not. However when the cop that shoots him in the back goes to GenPop for murder the other cops will think twice. Prison is supposed to also act as a deterrent.
Why don’t you go rob a bank? Because you know if you get caught you can go to prison...
 
Fuck the media!
​Liars and manipulating sacks of crap!
For your answer you need look no further than the Queens realm...
My .02
 
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i was listening to an NPR story about the over militarization of our police across the country. it was super interesting the way Radley Balko described change that needed to happen. He mentioned taking normal traffic patrol and making them more of a community service team versus full on cops. Why can't the folks that pull you over for running a red light or rolling a stop sign be more like a meter reader? adding a number of mental health experts to respond to situations instead of a "regular" police officer getting into a situation they don't really know how to handle.

When you think about the way our local police forces are armed, its absolutely insane. they have military surplus armored vehicles, powerful military weaponry that has no place to be used in a city etc.. Many police forces are equipped for war instead of community safety.

Here is the link to the piece. Its really interesting the discussion they have about recruiting kids out of high school with videos of guys repelling out of helicopters, driving armored trucks and putting a real emphasis on the control they have within the community.
 
BarfBag said:
the issue would go away if police departments would quit hiring people afraid of their own shadows and assholes
Click to expand...

Wow, must be different where you live.
Most cops have seen it all, and they know how quickly something can escalate . They take action before the next step happens
 
grumpy356 said:
A cop is a citizen and has the same rights as every other citizen to own, carry, use a firearm. A cop should also face the same repercussions as any other citizen.

they should have no more rights, but no less rights.
Click to expand...

Horseshit. They have more rights than the average citizen. For instance I am active duty military with 21 years in. I can't carry a firearm on a military base without personal permission from the base commanding officer. Police officers can when they are on base. They are automatically given that permission.
 
welndmn said:
Wow, must be different where you live.
Most cops have seen it all, and they know how quickly something can escalate . They take action before the next step happens
Click to expand...

Look at events like the Gage Lorentz murder, or that poor kid in the hotel in Mesa. Those cops are assholes. How many videos are floating around the internet of a cop emptying his gun into a guy just reaching for the paperwork the cop just asked for? Or that lady cop who entered the wrong apartment, thinking it was her's, and murdered the legal tenant? Those cops are afraid of their own shadows. If policed departments would quit hiring guys like that, a lot of these problems wouldn't happen.

And "most cops have seen it all" really? Most cops I see around are probably under 30, way to young to have seen it all.
 
BarfBag said:
And "most cops have seen it all" really? Most cops I see around are probably under 30, way to young to have seen it all.
Click to expand...

Yup. from suburbia. grew up in the Cleaver household. maybe they've seen it all once they've been on the force for a number of years and have had a chance to see it all
 
subybaja said:
Is that a troll, or is there something in the water down there?

The only "thought" suggested by that irrelevant-to-the-US wiki page is that the UK has 50 gun deaths a year, while the US has 8,000. The only way that is relevant is if we ban and eliminate guns here, too.

The police exist as the violent enforcers of society's morals. Disarm them and you're further enabling armed criminals.

Disarm them, and you make them into social work counselors.
Click to expand...

i was talking to a soft-socialist the other day about this, they brought up something about how Canada has 1/3 the "gun violence" that the USA does, per capita. with just a touch of digging, it turns out that Canada also has a slightly higher (nearly the same) "Intentional homicide rate" per capita as the USA.

I take that as proof positive that the Canadian approach to 'gun control' actually has fuckall to do with 'violence', they took it as i'm just a bigot or something.

gun control itself is a terrible predictor of generalized violence. as such, gun control can not be an answer to violence.
 
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