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Unlimited PTO - anyone work for a company that does that?

blakes

blakes

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Storm Mountain CO
Company that I am looking at working for claims employees have 'unlimited PTO'. Anyone with experience with this? Seems there has GOT to be a catch.
 
The catch................................................................................................. you don't get paid. :flipoff2:
 
Catch is probably having them put a limit on it in the future. My dad went through it and ended up doing two or three years back to back of 1 month vacations:lmao:
 
my wife's company transitioned to this a few years ago. they're hoping you take less time off, and they also reduce financial liability.

Think about this. if you had a bank account that had money in it that you needed to spend each year, you'd spend every last cent of it. if you had access to someone else's bank account, but you didn't necessarily NEED to spend the money each year, would you drain their account?

also, If they have a system where you earn PTO, and you quit or they fire you, they need to pay you out for anything that you have earned but now spent that year. for some companies this can mean millions of $$ in liabilities. with this system you don't technically earn any time so they don't have to pay you out.
 
I have it where I work and switched to it a little over 2 years ago and it is awesome. I have taken more PTO then I normally would as I don't have to worry and having enough time banked to cover emergencies. The only catch, if you call it that, is that as long as your work is getting done on time, as long as that happens, then no issues.

The reason companies are doing this, is that they don't have to report the liability on their corporate reports to shareholders, which makes their quarterly reports look better.
 
I'm in a bit of a weird spot where I totally planned on taking last quarter 2019/most of 2020 off, and starting something fresh going forward. Had a whole bunch of workshops, retreats, and events planned through 2020 that are now all rescheduled for 2021 for obvious reasons.

So now if I go to an interview, I get to open with "I've got these 4 weeks already booked for stuff in 2021, and you're only offering 2 weeks PTO"...I don't see that going over well.

I haven't even dipped a toe in the market yet but with all the working from home (or, literally anywhere, as I'd likely be able to 'work' during much of that PTO stuff), I wonder how much leverage potential employees will have in the near future.

(not talking entry-level, degreed engineer with 14 years experience in multiple positions including product and project management...guess we'll see what that market looks like)
 
fj40man said:
The only catch, if you call it that, is that as long as your work is getting done on time, as long as that happens, then no issues.
Click to expand...

Last two places I worked at was like this, probably seen a lot more in the IT world. It also allowed foreigners to get back to the motherlands for awhile. Its pretty nice, but if shit hits the fan you're expected to bail on yours for the company.

The one company lost control of it just before I left. It became a 'work from home' like policy because people would go back to India for a week of vaca, work from that home for a week and take a second week off. They would make the case 'why travel home for a week when I can work from here. That got annoying.
 
vetteboy79 said:
So now if I go to an interview, I get to open with "I've got these 4 weeks already booked for stuff in 2021, and you're only offering 2 weeks PTO"...I don't see that going over well
Click to expand...

They don't care if you're the right person.
 
vetteboy79 said:
I'm in a bit of a weird spot where I totally planned on taking last quarter 2019/most of 2020 off, and starting something fresh going forward. Had a whole bunch of workshops, retreats, and events planned through 2020 that are now all rescheduled for 2021 for obvious reasons.

So now if I go to an interview, I get to open with "I've got these 4 weeks already booked for stuff in 2021, and you're only offering 2 weeks PTO"...I don't see that going over well.

I haven't even dipped a toe in the market yet but with all the working from home (or, literally anywhere, as I'd likely be able to 'work' during much of that PTO stuff), I wonder how much leverage potential employees will have in the near future.

(not talking entry-level, degreed engineer with 14 years experience in multiple positions including product and project management...guess we'll see what that market looks like)
Click to expand...

just have to sell it, because as Austin pointed out if you are the right person they will accommodate it. also i would defiantly wait for the second interview to share the information. i was interviewing and my wife was getting to the end of her pregnancy, so i was just up front and let em know. they didnt seem to mind.

'i had some down time and was working on some personal development, due to the 'rona it all got pushed back'
 
Sorry this is kinda long!

Not sure anyone cares to read all this but thought I would share my current situation with regards to unlimited PTO.

My company has it and as long as everything is getting done there doesn't seem to be any issue with it. Having built a house two years ago and the wife changing jobs last year I have not taken any PTO in two years due to not going anywhere that required me to take time off with the exception of a day here and there for doc appts, kid stuff etc. That being said it is now presenting a unique situation for me that I am working through how to address with my company. My job used to require most of my time to be spent in office to receive shipments or install new servers/cabling as needed but with the rona I have been working from home due to the wife having 3 auto immune disorders putting her in the very high risk category. The guy I sit next to is your stereotypical Korean in that he is 36, still lives at home and his parents own and operate two dry cleaners and then come home to the same house as him every day so there is a viable risk with him in the office. That being said in the last year I have only had maybe 10 servers to install and the majority of the rest of my time has been spent surfing the internet all day because there was nothing else for me to do but they were fine with that because they could physically see me being there at the office. Since working from home I have been helping with sys admin duties and general monitoring of our facilities/labs remotely day to day which has actually increased my workload 10 fold in a demonstrable way that they can actually see and monitor the work that I am doing and I have been busier than ever since starting to work from home.

The unique situation now is that my boss is now pushing for me to commit to a minimum 20 hours a week in the office during core hours (8-5) with the rest of the time working remotely which I would be I would be fine doing except on top of the wife's auto immune issues she has also been out of work since the beginning of the year with a TBI from a fall on some ice and has only just started back to work with limited hours because she gets worn out very quickly and needs to rest after just a few hours of work which leads to the issue of now also having to homeschool our 8 year old with dyslexia and ADHD who has to have someone sit and monitor his remote learning online if there is any hope of him learning anything. I proposed giving them 20 hours in office is some of those hours could be after core hours but he was unwilling to budge on that because he is "tired of having to receive a package every now and then." Any packages we are currently receiving are personal packages and not company related and at best it is maybe 2 per week.

I will openly admit that I am averaging 32-36 hours a week of actual work time from home and not a full 40 but I have not missed anything and continually ask for more tasks and what else I can do to help while being remote. They now want me to commit to the 20 hours core time plus 20 hours remote or use FMLA for the remaining hours to make a complete 40 for the week. The FMLA only pays 2/3 of my salary and the way I have interpreted the laws regarding FMLA and unlimited PTO is that if the company offers unlimited PTO they are required to pay any remaining balance not paid by the FMLA to make my salary whole. I have reached out to a good friend who is a VP of HR for a very large company and has been in HR for 30 years to get some help/clarification on the laws and what my options are. I don't want to be a pain in the ass to my company or make things difficult for them but if they offer unlimited PTO it is my opinion that I should be collecting a full paycheck at the end of the month. Maybe I am crazy who knows!

I am planning to leave the company by the end of the year just due to other unrelated issues like lack of room for advancement, no raise in 3 years and my view of the companies future doesn't look promising but I need to maintain employment with them until at least October 1 due to on top of everything else the wife is scheduled for a hysterectomy on Oct 6 and we have met the deductible for the year with all of her other issues so not coming out of pocket for that is important.
 
I avoid them. Too much horse shit and people start taking things personal (^^^^^) even though they know they're not....well you know.

I like to bank my vacation, be able to sell it back on leaving, or be reminded I need some time off with use or lose. Unlimited goes both ways; unlimited to take, or unlimited to not be approved.
 
WunTon said:
Sorry this is kinda long!

Not sure anyone cares to read all this but thought I would share my current situation with regards to unlimited PTO.

My company has it and as long as everything is getting done there doesn't seem to be any issue with it. Having built a house two years ago and the wife changing jobs last year I have not taken any PTO in two years due to not going anywhere that required me to take time off with the exception of a day here and there for doc appts, kid stuff etc. That being said it is now presenting a unique situation for me that I am working through how to address with my company. My job used to require most of my time to be spent in office to receive shipments or install new servers/cabling as needed but with the rona I have been working from home due to the wife having 3 auto immune disorders putting her in the very high risk category. The guy I sit next to is your stereotypical Korean in that he is 36, still lives at home and his parents own and operate two dry cleaners and then come home to the same house as him every day so there is a viable risk with him in the office. That being said in the last year I have only had maybe 10 servers to install and the majority of the rest of my time has been spent surfing the internet all day because there was nothing else for me to do but they were fine with that because they could physically see me being there at the office. Since working from home I have been helping with sys admin duties and general monitoring of our facilities/labs remotely day to day which has actually increased my workload 10 fold in a demonstrable way that they can actually see and monitor the work that I am doing and I have been busier than ever since starting to work from home.

The unique situation now is that my boss is now pushing for me to commit to a minimum 20 hours a week in the office during core hours (8-5) with the rest of the time working remotely which I would be I would be fine doing except on top of the wife's auto immune issues she has also been out of work since the beginning of the year with a TBI from a fall on some ice and has only just started back to work with limited hours because she gets worn out very quickly and needs to rest after just a few hours of work which leads to the issue of now also having to homeschool our 8 year old with dyslexia and ADHD who has to have someone sit and monitor his remote learning online if there is any hope of him learning anything. I proposed giving them 20 hours in office is some of those hours could be after core hours but he was unwilling to budge on that because he is "tired of having to receive a package every now and then." Any packages we are currently receiving are personal packages and not company related and at best it is maybe 2 per week.

I will openly admit that I am averaging 32-36 hours a week of actual work time from home and not a full 40 but I have not missed anything and continually ask for more tasks and what else I can do to help while being remote. They now want me to commit to the 20 hours core time plus 20 hours remote or use FMLA for the remaining hours to make a complete 40 for the week. The FMLA only pays 2/3 of my salary and the way I have interpreted the laws regarding FMLA and unlimited PTO is that if the company offers unlimited PTO they are required to pay any remaining balance not paid by the FMLA to make my salary whole. I have reached out to a good friend who is a VP of HR for a very large company and has been in HR for 30 years to get some help/clarification on the laws and what my options are. I don't want to be a pain in the ass to my company or make things difficult for them but if they offer unlimited PTO it is my opinion that I should be collecting a full paycheck at the end of the month. Maybe I am crazy who knows!

I am planning to leave the company by the end of the year just due to other unrelated issues like lack of room for advancement, no raise in 3 years and my view of the companies future doesn't look promising but I need to maintain employment with them until at least October 1 due to on top of everything else the wife is scheduled for a hysterectomy on Oct 6 and we have met the deductible for the year with all of her other issues so not coming out of pocket for that is important.
Click to expand...

I bet they’re trying to push you out the door. It sounds like they tried to give you a hint with no raise in 3 years. Sounds like you’re also a major drain on their health care plan.
 
The only reason a business offers unlimited PTO is their Union got it pushed through (never happening) or it benefits the business. If it benefits the business you may as well start pegging yourself with a dildo on camera and selling your panties, because vacation became a thing of the past.
 
vetteboy79 said:
I'm in a bit of a weird spot where I totally planned on taking last quarter 2019/most of 2020 off, and starting something fresh going forward. Had a whole bunch of workshops, retreats, and events planned through 2020 that are now all rescheduled for 2021 for obvious reasons.

So now if I go to an interview, I get to open with "I've got these 4 weeks already booked for stuff in 2021, and you're only offering 2 weeks PTO"...I don't see that going over well.

I haven't even dipped a toe in the market yet but with all the working from home (or, literally anywhere, as I'd likely be able to 'work' during much of that PTO stuff), I wonder how much leverage potential employees will have in the near future.

(not talking entry-level, degreed engineer with 14 years experience in multiple positions including product and project management...guess we'll see what that market looks like)
Click to expand...

Well that role I was trying to convince you to take on at my job is no longer available... Apparently I have had such great reviews and positive comments from all the clients I have dealt with, they have decided I should now be the guy to run the service/training/consulting department of the company, - you know the division that does not exist yet. Sounds like it is going to be interesting ha ha
 
pdangerp said:
I bet they’re trying to push you out the door. It sounds like they tried to give you a hint with no raise in 3 years. Sounds like you’re also a major drain on their health care plan.
Click to expand...

I would think the same except at least half of my co-workers have also not received a raise in several years. We are a small company (now 14 people) that laid off our development team (4 people) and have not back filled 3 positions of others that have left in the last year. Being a software development and services company without a development team and an owner that puts all of his eggs in one basket and spends months to years chasing one single lead instead of multiple while relying on our service contracts to keep us afloat is what leads to my bleak future outlook opinion of the company . Up until this year we were no more of a drain on the health plan than any other normal family with my wife's issues being controlled with diet and 1 prescription but I will agree this year has been expensive.
 
WunTon said:
I would think the same except at least half of my co-workers have also not received a raise in several years. We are a small company (now 14 people) that laid off our development team (4 people) and have not back filled 3 positions of others that have left in the last year. Being a software development and services company without a development team and an owner that puts all of his eggs in one basket and spends months to years chasing one single lead instead of multiple while relying on our service contracts to keep us afloat is what leads to my bleak future outlook opinion of the company . Up until this year we were no more of a drain on the health plan than any other normal family with my wife's issues being controlled with diet and 1 prescription but I will agree this year has been expensive.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've had a healthy heads up to find a new job.
 
I used to work for a company with unlimited PTO. The main gripe with "unlimited" pto is that if you have 2wk you take 2wk but if you have unlimited you're under pressure to take as little as possible.

Thankfully the part of the company I worked for was 80% H1bs and green card holders who'd take a week off at Christmas and then fuck off for the majority of a random other month to visit the old country so me taking a little under 3wk/yr was a non-issue.
 
Interesting and pretty much what I thought. This will be for a .gov contract. New company won the prime contract and is coming in. I'm really curious how it plays out...
 
I get seven weeks a year, weekends, and all holidays off. Pretty close to unlimited? I have something like 270 hours banked up. :flipoff2:
 
we have unlimited PTO... It's smart for the company as it reduces a liability. Some people abuse it. Most end up averaging about 3-weeks year. I average maybe 2 weeks a year, and 1/2 of those days I'm still working.

It's kind of hard to get used to, but I certainly appreciate the reasoning and value.
 
When you have earned PTO and request specific days off, it's hard for your supervisor to say "sorry, you can't take those days off". In my entire professional career, I have never been denied PTO.

If you have unlimited PTO, it gives the supervisor more opportunity to deny the request, since you haven't "earned" it. Basically, they can deny it for any silly little reason because it's unlimited.

At my job we work 4-10's (extra 52 days off a year) with normal earned PTO, and I'm pretty happy with the work/life balance. By the end of the week, I'm ready for family time; by the end of the weekend, I'm ready to go back to work.
 
one company i worked for paid you out on your anniversary date every year as a way to reduce the liability. plus most of the workers were broke, so they never took time off.
 
I see this mainly with high tech companies.

I first worked for a company with unlimited sick time, it was great, but I probably use 2-3 sick days a year, so it was not real change to me. We did see people who would abuse the sick time get fired.

I then went to a company with unlimited PTO/Vacation/sick. It was really strange, you did you see people for weeks. I had a semi important job there so I never got a change to use all the free PTO, because I was always required to be in the office running projects. Most people there that abused the PTO were also let go do to "Performance issues".
 
I'm supposed to have 3 weeks/year. Nobody tracks it, and I probably only use 2 weeks/year. As long as my work is getting done and my branch is running smoothly, our main office doesn't care if I'm taking 6 weeks off a year. At my last job I had 2 weeks/year and they tracked it to the minute. But at the same time they didn't seem to mind me coming in on weekends or staying late to get bids done.... :rolleyes:

I have 2 full time office employees at my branch, and they both are supposed to have 2 weeks/year. I don't micromanage it, and have told them that as long as they are performing their jobs, I don't care if they take 4 weeks. It seems to work well.
 
I have "vacation", "floating holidays", and "sick time".
Vacation is X many days a year, how many depends on your length of employment. That's use it or lose it, except in a half dozen states, where up to half of it can be rolled forward, but you can never have more than 1.5xVacation for your tenure, accrued. So if you hit that, you stop accruing more. The policy description is more complicated than the actual implementation.
Floating holidays are like that, but they're use it or lose it period, and there are four per year, regardless of tenure. You pick when you want them.
Both vacation and floating holidays have to be approved in advance by your manager, but unless you're the last person left in your department because everybody else already has that day as vacation, you're going to get it approved.
Sick time is unlimited. But most of my division can work from home, so unless you're so sick that you can't hold a coherent conversation, taking sick time is unnecessary. I think my last actual sick day was in 2012; I don't get sick very often, and I'd rather work sick than lump in bed sick. I'm told that people who abuse the unlimited sick time policy get to go chat with HR, but as with most big corps, we don't find out somebody was fired for abusing the sick leave policy, just "so-and-so is no longer with the company".
 
blakes said:
Interesting and pretty much what I thought. This will be for a .gov contract. New company won the prime contract and is coming in. I'm really curious how it plays out...
Click to expand...

Since it's a government contract, it will be all about working the hours. If you are allocated 1860 in the contract year, as long as you have a plan to get to that 1860, they probably don't care. They will probably expect a 6-12 month burn/expenditure plan from each employee on planned PTO.
 
Those with unlimited, do you really use it?

I have 20 days/yr on the books, and we get paid out for what we don't use Dec 31st. If I try and use a Fri or Mon to extend a weekend, I end up on the phone or email for an hour or two almost regardless, so the owner has me call that working remotely not vaca usually. End of Aug, 2/3 of the year, I've burned 7 days which included a week off. I probably won't finish the year over 12 including holidays.

My point being, I honestly don't think the number of days available as pto has been a hindrance to taking time off since I was an intern, it's more the workload and expectation. So is unlimited just a benefit to the employer in book keeping liabilities and really of no or very limited benefit to the employee?
 
My ol lady's company does that. If you are a hard working ass buster, you probably do not take off that much time anyway. If a company gives you, 4-6 weeks... How much do you take? If you get "unlimited" PTO, you probably do not use that much. .
 
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