Trailer Tongue Repair Questions

[Provience]

Alright, it's been just over 2 years but i'm finally going to start hacking up my trailer. I'd like to solicit some advise to make sure i'm not being too retarded

Trailer is 2x6xprobably 0.120 for the outside rails. probably 80" wide and 20' long, dual 3k axles. Title says homebuilt and 2500lb max rating. It's about 8' from the front of the main rail to the front of the fender.

It's got a Y tongue, which is 4" from the main rail to the center of the ball, both sides are 4' long as well. When the tongue started to tear, not only did the tongue tear on the bottom of both braces, but the front frame cross piece also tore/rotated a few degrees as well.

Currently it sits nose high.

Plan is:

1) cut off the front cross brace, reset it back to mostly square.

2) Cut off the Y tongue, reset it back to mostly square

3) use some 1/8" or 3/16" or whatever that partial sheet i've got is and do some ~1-1/2' long top/bottom caps and some 4 or 6" outside patches

4) bend up a 20' stick of 1-3/4" tube to follow the "Y" legs and go about 5' back along the trailer deck main rails. Add some spreaders in there to keep the rail about 6" above the existing rail



I know most trailers have the tongue go underneath the deck square and typically all the way back to the spring mounts. Anybody think i'll be able to get similar results with my top rail sort of design?

I'd like to stay on top if possible just for ground clearance sake. Do I need to go all the way back to the fenders?

Am I wasting my time and just doing the straps/caps will be plenty?

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Alright, it's been just over 2 years but i'm finally going to start hacking up my trailer. I'd like to solicit some advise to make sure i'm not being too retarded

Trailer is 2x6xprobably 0.120 for the outside rails. probably 80" wide and 20' long, dual 3k axles. Title says homebuilt and 2500lb max rating. It's about 8' from the front of the main rail to the front of the fender.

It's got a Y tongue, which is 4" from the main rail to the center of the ball, both sides are 4' long as well. When the tongue started to tear, not only did the tongue tear on the bottom of both braces, but the front frame cross piece also tore/rotated a few degrees as well.



Currently it sits nose high.

Plan is:

1) cut off the front cross brace, reset it back to mostly square.

2) Cut off the Y tongue, reset it back to mostly square

3) use some 1/8" or 3/16" or whatever that partial sheet i've got is and do some ~1-1/2' long top/bottom caps and some 4 or 6" outside patches

4) bend up a 20' stick of 1-3/4" tube to follow the "Y" legs and go about 5' back along the trailer deck main rails. Add some spreaders in there to keep the rail about 6" above the existing rail



I know most trailers have the tongue go underneath the deck square and typically all the way back to the spring mounts. Anybody think i'll be able to get similar results with my top rail sort of design?

I'd like to stay on top if possible just for ground clearance sake. Do I need to go all the way back to the fenders?

Am I wasting my time and just doing the straps/caps will be plenty?

Plan sounds good to me. Not sure entirely cutting stuff off is necessary, you could just clearance out the cracked parts and force everything back square/flat. I find it's usually easier and with better results to bend things back while they're still "installed"

For example, a friend really fucked up the rear basket on his snowmobile when he flipped it drunk on an icy road and killed himself. My other friend who bought the sled was going to remove the rack to straighten it. I said not to remove it, but leave attached to the tunnel and we were able to bend it back perfect and then not fight to bolt it back on...

When you say "caps" and "patches" I think people would call those fish plates.

I think the plates and new welds would probably be good enough, but I also think the top rail tube thing would add strength (always good) and would add some class. I don't think you would gain anything going all the way back to the fenders, I would just go past the corners until it looked correct and proportional.

Don't forget winch receivers while you're at it.

I'd also poke around and see how thin the bottom of those frame rails are compared to the tops. See how much the bottoms have rusted away. Capped tubings like that always seem to hold water when there isn't drain holes.

 

[muddyrover]

I would cut holes through the front rail about a 1.5' in from he corners and stick longer, thicker tongue tubes to mount further back to the side rails at an angle. Fish plating where the tongue mounts to the side rail and thicker front rail would probably be a good idea.

The thickness of the rub rails compared to the frame/ tounge made me chuckle.

 

[Provience]

Regarding rust and frame thick [thin] Ness, I got the trailer for a grand with a new axle almost 15 years ago because it had some decent cross member rust.

At the time, I swore up and down I'd address the rust grease and tires is all it has ever gotten out of me.


Good point on not fully cutting it apart.

I'm going to have to stare at it for a bit to ponder the idea of going through the front rail. More robust tongue material is probably not going to happen, which is why I was thinking to make a top rail to about double the height...and also because I have the tube already


Basically I've got forty feet of 120 and 90 wall 1-3/4" tube, a couple square feet of half inch plate and a maybe 4 or 6 square feet of 1/8 or 3/16 plate.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Can we get full pictures of the whole shitshow rather than just one stupid corner of the tongue?

Because if it were me I'd cardboard cad up a piece of 3/16 and then heat and beat it over the problem before welding it and call it good. But you haven't given enough context so maybe the whole thing is fucked and needs the bigger approaches being suggested.

 

[Provience]

While you were typing, I was making coffee and took some more pictures. kind of surprised I didn't already have any on my phone or computer

 

[Provience]

The lack of intentional drain holes seem to have added to the issue

 

[arse_sidewards]

I'd just make an angle iron frame that matches the trailer and slips on from the bottom and then weld it on.

 

[muddyrover]

Looks like it lasted quite a while as is, but seems like it is asking an awful lot of that front cross member. I know " if it fits, it ships" on my trailers, so I err on the side of over built. I guess if you stick to the 2500# load rating, you'd be fine.

 

[Provience]

Looks like it lasted quite a while as is, but seems like it is asking an awful lot of that front cross member. I know " if it fits, it ships" on my trailers, so I err on the side of over built.

Yeah it did a bunch of work, but of course things only fail when you are using them. Because if you aren't at the limit or overloaded, you aren't asking it to do anything

If I patch it and brace it now, it should be okay the next time I have to drive through new Mexico while overloaded.

I think that's what really did it, had some very long stretches of road where the resonance between truck and trailer would just give lots of up and down cycles.

 

[chaplinfj60]

I'd just make an angle iron frame that matches the trailer and slips on from the bottom and then weld it on.

i kinda like this approach too, if worried about do top and bottom angle iron and go back further on the strait run of the frame. i found some stupid heavy duty angle iron at the local steel/scrap yard that was out side and rusty and just paid weight of scrap for a 20 foot piece and did a vert similar upgrade to my trailer i over use.

 

[Gbkeith]

Depending on how much of that stuff is rusted out, I think if you straighten out and repair the welds on the tongue, plate the corners, and replace the center tube with a longer one that runs back to the second or third crossmember you should be ok for what your axles are good for. You could do more but it’s just more weight on your little bitty baby axles.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

replace the center tube with a longer one that runs back to the second or third crossmember you should be ok for what your axles are good for. You could do more but it’s just more weight on your little bitty baby axles.

This is what I was going to reply with, only I was gonna say you could just keep the straight part and add more straight tube to catch some crossmembers. This would get fish plates on top and bottom to span the front crossmember, and maybe even stab some pieces through the front crossmember that would get plug welded.

No sense getting too fancy as it's just a clapped out rusty trailer.

 

[Provience]

It's less rusty now

Got it to move some, going to cut more aggressively and use the torch, assuming there is still gas in my tanks, to get the last little bit.

 

[Provience]

I swear I used to be able to make clean lines free hand with the torch, but that might just be lies we tell the kids so that we can sleep at night

12" from the cirner on the 2 main legs, 8" and a soft edge for the cross member

 

[Provience]

Made it this far, top amd bottom on both sides fully welded. Still need to make corner fish plates, probably going to be diamond style, 6" tall and 6" at the belly.

I've been thinking about what you guys are saying regarding bracing the front frame rail and straight tongue section back further.

Cross braces are 2x2 @24" O/C. I could send a tube under all that from the bottom of the front rail, either straight back or make a V and go to the sides.

Since this is going to have the world's worst F350 on it with some amount of tools and sent behind the RV, it's going to be difficult to monitor.

Which sort of leads me back to doing a shirt upper rail.

Certainly didn't get as far today as I expected

 

[CarterKraft]

Made it this far, top amd bottom on both sides fully welded. Still need to make corner fish plates, probably going to be diamond style, 6" tall and 6" at the belly.

I've been thinking about what you guys are saying regarding bracing the front frame rail and straight tongue section back further.

Cross braces are 2x2 @24" O/C. I could send a tube under all that from the bottom of the front rail, either straight back or make a V and go to the sides.

Since this is going to have the world's worst F350 on it with some amount of tools and sent behind the RV, it's going to be difficult to monitor.

Which sort of leads me back to doing a shirt upper rail.

Certainly didn't get as far today as I expected

Those top and bottom plates fixed it
The failure is a great example of the strength is in the flanges (top/bottom) not the webs, once that poor weld joint on the bottom flange cracked then it starts tearing the web.

 

[Gravy]

If I'm looking at this correctly.

Add a "V" type brace under the deck to the back side of tube that connects to center tongue tube.

Basically the horizontal front tube is being pryed up and there is nothing stopping it except the out side rails.

 

[Provience]

Those top and bottom plates fixed it
The failure is a great example of the strength is in the flanges (top/bottom) not the webs, once that poor weld joint on the bottom flange cracked then it starts tearing the web.

I'm still going to add a patch to the open corners though, that thigh gap is thicc

If I'm looking at this correctly.

Add a "V" type brace under the deck to the back side of tube that connects to center tongue tube.

Basically the horizontal front tube is being pryed up and there is nothing stopping it except the out side rails.

Alright, that makes sense. Add some stiffness to the front without hanging down lower.

some short videos as well ran a boat winch/crank cable from the tongue to the axle, once it was tight added the jack to the mix to get it pulled down until the angle matched.

And cleaning out some the excellent internal rail loss. Advantage C channel frames

 

[Gravy]

I'm still going to add a patch to the open corners though, that thigh gap is thicc


Alright, that makes sense. Add some stiffness to the front without hanging down lower.]

Not sure what weight or whatnots you're planning to haul. Something of this nature depending on what you have laying around.

 

[Provience]

Not sure what weight or whatnots you're planning to haul. Something of this nature depending on what you have laying around.

7k lbs is probably my max weight.

Trailer is probably 2k lbs, 1980 f350 4wd with speed hole frame is probably 4,750 lbs or so, probably another 400lbs of crap to add....550 ish lbs max tongue load.


Typical load would just be a 4500 lb car or much less for random such stuff.

It held up for many years as it was, adding some reinforcing to the tongue are will hopefully get it for many more years.

 

[Provience]

Corner plates hammered into place and rub rails glued back on. Went ahead and left a hole on the bottom junction. Maybe it will help letting things drain, probably can't be any worse

"Clean metal" primer and black implement paint from tractor supply. I really need to figure out what happened to the 1 or 2 cheap paint guns I've got. Would've been much nicer than spray paint cans

Cut up a 6" long section of 2x3. Holes saw into the middle. Used the U piece for the rear most and the cut in half U got used for the front 2 cross members

And underneath, went with the 3 pieces. The 2 angles are 5' long for a 3x4x5 triangle. Center straight one is 6' long to get 3 crossmemebers. Did put a 2"x12" piece of 3/8" along the front for the 3 to mount to, because it was conveniently right there.

And now I've just got to get the wiring plugged back in and it should be better than it was before.

Thanks for the help

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Those three bottom tubes aren't doing a thing.

There's not enough separation (distance from the trailer frame to those tubings) for them to act like a truss and they don't span the junction of that front crossmember.

They're too small to act as a beam by themselves. Being at the bottom of the trailer frame tubes, they'll see some tension when the tongue is loaded, but the front crossmember is still free to move backwards when the tongue wants to flex up.

It'll be fine, I just think you wasted those tubes.

 

[Provience]

Those three bottom tubes aren't doing a thing.

There's not enough separation (distance from the trailer frame to those tubings) for them to act like a truss and they don't span the junction of that front crossmember.

They're too small to act as a beam by themselves. Being at the bottom of the trailer frame tubes, they'll see some tension when the tongue is loaded, but the front crossmember is still free to move backwards when the tongue wants to flex up.

It'll be fine, I just think you wasted those tubes.

I think waste might be a strong word, but I do agree that going along the bottom won't add anything like what the above the frame truss would've added.

I was thinking they would be less useful in tension and more useful in compression, though they will probably spend more time in tension.

They are very low risk. If they help some, great, if not I'll hopefully never know. If the welds fail and they pop off, hopefully they stay attached on some end