Track Bar Joint Selection - TRE?

[XJlimitedx99]

Did some searching, but didn't find anybody talking about it or any examples of what I'm thinking.

I'm working on a JK44 front axle swap under my XJ. Just about ready to start building the track bar. I'm hoping I'll be able to mount the axle side outboard of the coil mount to keep the length close to the drag link, but of course space gets real tight when trying to put the track bar in front of the coil.

I'll be using a heim joint on the frame side, and was originally planning on using one on the axle side as well, but mounting a heim in double shear at the axle side will take up a fair amount of room that could interfere with the drag link. I've seen people mount the axle end in single shear when running this configuration, but I don't like the idea of that connection being single shear with a regular bolt.

What I'm looking for an example of (or someone to tell me why its a bad idea) is using a tie rod end mounted with the stud parallel to the ground on the axle side of the track bar. I'm thinking this will be a lower profile joint than a heim in double shear, and the tapered stud will provide a much more robust connection in single shear compared to just a bolt.

Bear in mind I haven't put eyeballs on this on my rig yet and I am completely web-wheeling here because its a lot easier to think about this stuff from my desk at work than it is to actually get in the garage and make real progress.

Has anyone done this? Is it stupid? Is the TRE not actually going to be any lower profile than a heim? Get off the computer and go build something? Go fuck myself because its not a 60?

 

[Gumbybronco]

Is this what you’re working with?
Looks like lots of room for double shear.

 

[LScout800]

Post pics of what you are working with.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Its tight in that spot with a straight drag link. That is why the JKs, JLs and JTs all run a bent drag link. Its bent to clear the track bar mount. Have you thought about just putting a bend in the drag link?

 

[XJlimitedx99]

Is this what you’re working with?
Looks like lots of room for double shear.

Yes, same axle. My coil mounts are 1-2" further inboard, so I have more tube between the C and the coil mount.

Post pics of what you are working with.

I'll see if I can get some later. Gotta throw the steering back on to see what I'm working with.

Its tight in that spot with a straight drag link. That is why the JKs, JLs and JTs all run a bent drag link. Its bent to clear the track bar mount. Have you thought about just putting a bend in the drag link?

Honestly, no, I haven't. I've never worked around JK/JL/JT stuff and don't have JK steering on hand, so I'll take that into consideration. Could end up being the easier option. I was planning on a straight DL and tie rod with offset 1-ton TRE's.



Guess I jumped the gun making a thread as I really haven't put eyes on it yet. Was more curious to see if anybody has used a TRE in that location. I'll get some pictures/measurements of what I'm working with and post em up.

 

[LScout800]

I had to put a bend in my draglink in order to keep it away from my panhard mount, I used the 1.5 OD .250 wall DOM that came with the kit. A harbor freight pipe bender with the 1 1/4 inch die works pretty good, and will not kink the tubing since the walls are so thick.

 

[Beat95yj]

Double sheer rodend on my front jk axle in an LJ. Trackbar bracket is synergy jk rear.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Guess I jumped the gun making a thread as I really haven't put eyes on it yet. Was more curious to see if anybody has used a TRE in that location. I'll get some pictures/measurements of what I'm working with and post em up.

You can use a TRE if you want. It accomplishes the same thing. 05+ superduties use a large TRE on their track bars. Some are pressed into the axle and others have the TRE as part of the bar. I believe 2nd gen dodges used a TRE on the frame side of the track bar. It does work, I don't know that I would call it ideal though. Sounds like you just really need to start mocking everything up and get a feel for how much space you really have.

 

[Beat95yj]

You can use a TRE if you want. It accomplishes the same thing. 05+ superduties use a large TRE on their track bars. Some are pressed into the axle and others have the TRE as part of the bar. I believe 2nd gen dodges used a TRE on the frame side of the track bar. It does work, I don't know that I would call it ideal though. Sounds like you just really need to start mocking everything up and get a feel for how much space you really have.

Iirc, it has been a while since I’ve looked under a stock TJ, but the front track bar frame mount is a TRE.

 

[XJlimitedx99]

I had to put a bend in my draglink in order to keep it away from my panhard mount, I used the 1.5 OD .250 wall DOM that came with the kit. A harbor freight pipe bender with the 1 1/4 inch die works pretty good, and will not kink the tubing since the walls are so thick.

Apparently I didn't pay attention to other people's build threads because I didn't notice people bending their DL's. I'm also using 1.5" x 0.250 wall DOM. I have access to a JD2, so it shouldn't be a problem. I've never bent 1/4" wall tube before. Will be a good learning experience.

Double sheer rodend on my front jk axle in an LJ. Trackbar bracket is synergy jk rear.

Looks pretty much exactly what I'm going for. Bending the DL looks like a simpler solution than making a mount for the tapered TRE studs.

Kinda unrelated question: I see your tie rod is bent rather than running offset TRE's. I am considering doing the same because standard TRE's will allow tighter backspaced wheels, but I've always wondered what keeps the tie rod from rolling forward/downward. Is it just the friction in the joints preventing movement? Similarly, if you hit a rock with the tie rod, will it roll backward/upward?

Sorry for the tangent, this is a topic I've been wanting to look into.

You can use a TRE if you want. It accomplishes the same thing. 05+ superduties use a large TRE on their track bars. Some are pressed into the axle and others have the TRE as part of the bar. I believe 2nd gen dodges used a TRE on the frame side of the track bar. It does work, I don't know that I would call it ideal though. Sounds like you just really need to start mocking everything up and get a feel for how much space you really have.

That's interesting. I've never seen the SD setup. Goes to show there isn't a "right" way to do things and just because everybody tends to do something the same way doesn't mean its the best for every application.

Sorry, didn't take any pics yesterday. Got home and the couch looked a lot warmer than the garage.

Iirc, it has been a while since I’ve looked under a stock TJ, but the front track bar frame mount is a TRE.

I believe they do as well. I know XJ's run that setup. The rod ends are mounted with the stud vertical up into the frame-side bracket. They use a standard rubber bushing on the axle side.

 

[Beat95yj]

Friction is the only thing preventing drag link/tie rod from rolling. Both are synergy pieces, but the drag link is a different length.

I don’t care for the offset rod ends. I don’t like the increased bending moment.

Also, because my stuff is synergy, it’s all heat treated

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Synergy does have some single plane TREs to prevent the rolling issue.

 

[Skinny]

Definitely used as an OEM arrangement so I wouldn't be scared. But also not my first choice.

I'd be all about a traditional bushing first for an all around machine because it's super cheap to rebuild and is quiet. Step up to your brand of choice flex joint if you want something a little tighter with more operating angle.

I'd avoid heims on a street truck but I also live in New England and nothing lasts forever here.

Tie rod end is fine but I imagine fabricating a mount for one with a taper or needing a special tool to remove it just complicates things. Unless you have zero options but that.

 

[TrailTamer]

I'm working on a JK44 front axle swap under my XJ. Just about ready to start building the track bar. I'm hoping I'll be able to mount the axle side outboard of the coil mount to keep the length close to the drag link, but of course space gets real tight when trying to put the track bar in front of the coil.

Keep your axle side mount inboard of the coil and put your frame side mount outward instead.

 

[XJlimitedx99]

Keep your axle side mount inboard of the coil and put your frame side mount outward instead.

As much as this would be much easier to package, it would put my frame side track bar mount like 9" outboard of the frame and would interfere with the tire, assuming I match the TB and DL lengths. I know I can cheat the TB length shorter, but I'd like to try to put the axle side outboard of the coil to keep the lengths the same. People have done it, so I know its possible.

-----------------------------------

I put my steering back on and started eyeballing clearances the other day. I immediately realized I'm shooting myself in the foot with where I put my coil mounts. I had the centerline of the coil mount 0.75" forward of the centerline of the bump stop so that when the axle droops out the coil doesn't pull back and rub on the bump stop. I saw that 3/4" is needed much more in front of the coil mount and when the axle is drooped all the way out I really don't need the mount to be biased forward to keep the coil out of the bump stop.

So I'm going to rework my coil mounts such that they are centered over the axle tube rather than being offset forwards 3/4". I think with that, and also bending my draglink, I'll be able to fit a heim joint.

I was mocking up with a RuffStuff axle-side panhard mount and a 7/8" heim with 9/16" ID high misalignment spacers. I'm not convinced I need the high misalignment spacers, and could save a ton of space by getting rid of them, but want to try to keep them for now so I don't run into binding issues.


Thank you for the helpful comments and discussion. Its nice to hear some constructive feedback from people that have done it before rather than get the usual "search idiot" responses I've seen so many times, especially on the old site.