What's new
By:
Filters

Too cold to charge: Chicago becomes Tesla graveyard from the cold weather

Joez said:
This is exactly it. I've seen far more gas cars either not starting, or having issues on the side of the road than tesla not charging. This is getting way too much press for a handful of morons who fucked up.
Click to expand...
There's a thread right here on the first page with diesel truck drivers talking about their trucks not starting due to fuel gelling too:homer:
 
ToughBowtieTruck said:
“It’s not plug and go. You have to precondition the battery, meaning that you have to get the battery up to the optimal temperature to accept a fast charge,” said Mark Bilek of the Chicago Auto Trade Association.
Click to expand...
So more lazy "Journalism", why not talk about the problem? Does anyone know?
Yes, the battery needs to be warm in order to take a fast/super charge, but there are heaters in the packs, are those not sufficient? Do those "fast/super" chargers only charge at high rate so if the car does not have enough power to warm the batteries it will never start the charge? Seems like they would all be able to charge at lower rate and be fine, just going to take longer.
 
Squamch said:
We could ask No way for info?

But I'd bet they have garages.
Click to expand...
Norway is littered with EV's of all makes and models. Far from all are garage kept. Mine isnt.

Range ia shit in cold weather and those stupid fucky door handle gizmos on Teslas keep freezing shut.

Other than that, no major issues. People just don't go for longer drives in EV's in the winter without planning ahead
 
Last edited:
rugger said:
Not sure how all the Teslas manage to run in Norway. Tesla is the 4th most sold car there.
Click to expand...
They aren't a bunch of dumbasses, like in Chicago.
The "preconditioning" of the battery before it will take a fast charge is mentioned in the article. I read another article that went into a little more detail. But basically, they need to warm up the battery, by using power from the battery, before they try to do a fast charge. So in other words, don't run the battery down to 2% and think you have enough juice left to precondition the battery to do a fast charge. Basically boils down to people not knowing their cars...like probably 90% of people nowadays.
So I would guess the Norway owners are either not fast charging or they are preconditioning before doing a fast charge.

“It’s not plug and go. You have to precondition the battery, meaning that you have to get the battery up to the optimal temperature to accept a fast charge,”
 
dntsdad said:
Isn't this common knowledge that lithium and cold don't go together?

Even in my vanlife world, most people buy heated batteries if they live in that shitty climate where it gets cold like that.
Click to expand...
You overestimate the intelligence of most Tesla owners.
 
Last edited:
The chargers could just be power limited due to sagging voltages.

There is a lot we don't know about this situation other than they are dead.
 
Muckin_Slusher said:
Awesome! :laughing:

Recently on the news I heard about alberta having "grid alerts" sent out asking people to reduce electricity usage because cold out and heaters.
But don't worry folks, the infrastructure is fine to also handle charging every car after 2035.
Click to expand...
Been doing a bunch of research on this and it'll take a massive increase in the mining of copper, plus lots of other things to increase the grid to handle the load for that many EV's. The cost is in the $100's of billions.
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
Been doing a bunch of research on this and it'll take a massive increase in the mining of copper, plus lots of other things to increase the grid to handle the load for that many EV's. The cost is in the $100's of billions.
Click to expand...

Another "infrastructure" bill away though right?
 
makes no sense if it’s plugged in it doesn’t have enough power to precondition the battery.

When an F150 lightning is plugged in and the cooling fans are screaming trying to keep temperatures in control. Is that energy coming from the battery or from the charger?
 
TrailTamer said:
kmkommes ?
Click to expand...
It was a high of -2F here in Green Bay yesterday.

No Rivian, I have the hybrid 4xe wrangler and build full EV lawnmowers.

My Jeep has been fine being a hybrid other than not being able to run on full electric in these temps. It forces the engine to run at 5F and below. We did drive it to town last night and when I parked it I did get a message that said "plug in to precondition battery". Basically a warning to plug in during extreme cold, but most of those warnings can be completely ignored.

I have 16kwh of lawnmower batteries sitting outside at my house right now. They are at 0%. I suppose this thread is a reminder I should bring them in and charge them. Our Ariens/Gravely batteries do not allow charging below 32F. I let some sit out last winter and tested capacity again in the summer and didnt see any loss. Typically, lithium batteries should be kept above -20C,-4F. It does take a long time at cold temperatures to actually soak the battery to that temp.

Electric snowblowers like EGO etc... Those batteries should be kept in your heated garage. Ariens will have a similar product. I am designing new batteries for that.

My duramax would only rev to 2000RPM yesterday on my way home. I'm assuming my fuel filter is gelled up. I deflected that issue and let the wife drive that to work today. I did not tell her. She only goes 4 miles and doesnt need to go over 40mph. :)
 
kmkommes said:
It was a high of -2F here in Green Bay yesterday.

No Rivian, I have the hybrid 4xe wrangler and build full EV lawnmowers.

My Jeep has been fine being a hybrid other than not being able to run on full electric in these temps. It forces the engine to run at 5F and below. We did drive it to town last night and when I parked it I did get a message that said "plug in to precondition battery". Basically a warning to plug in during extreme cold, but most of those warnings can be completely ignored.

I have 16kwh of lawnmower batteries sitting outside at my house right now. They are at 0%. I suppose this thread is a reminder I should bring them in and charge them. Our Ariens/Gravely batteries do not allow charging below 32F. I let some sit out last winter and tested capacity again in the summer and didnt see any loss. Typically, lithium batteries should be kept above -20C,-4F. It does take a long time at cold temperatures to actually soak the battery to that temp.

Electric snowblowers like EGO etc... Those batteries should be kept in your heated garage. Ariens will have a similar product. I am designing new batteries for that.

My duramax would only rev to 2000RPM yesterday on my way home. I'm assuming my fuel filter is gelled up. I deflected that issue and let the wife drive that to work today. I did not tell her. She only goes 4 miles and doesnt need to go over 40mph. :)
Click to expand...


Are you one of the short straw drawers that comes up here to test snowblowers in the winter?
 
Everything "automotive" would have a battery heater that woul be powered by a charger. Charging will start at a very slow rate and then be normal once temp is up.

Lithium battery output and input is reduced at cold temps. I have a lithium battery on my dirtbike/snowbike. It is normal to have oi run the headlight for a bit to discharge the battery to heat up the battery so it would actually be able to output appropirate power to start the bike. Seems backwards but it works.
 
larboc said:
Are you one of the short straw drawers that comes up here to test snowblowers in the winter?
Click to expand...
I could if I wanted but I've skipped it. I think they'll be up next week near the calumet air force station.

I've been up there for testing when I worked at Oshkosh Truck.

I went to MTU and still have lots of family around Houghton, Freda, Toivola. I'm from Rock (grew up across the street to the west of the boney falls river basin). If you know the UP.
 
larboc said:
I'm curious about what the technical issue is. Car side or charger side? Car should be fine with it but?
Click to expand...


I agree with skyhiranger my uneducated guess is the idiot engineers did not allow the superchargers power supply to run the heaters in the battery to allow it warm up before charging. Instead they rely on the battery packs power to do this. Not enough remain power in pack to heat them up no charging. Then you toss the idiot people who choose to live in Chicago and bingo the perfect storm of not being able to charge your Tesla.

Option 2 not big enough heaters in the pack to deal with the sub zero cold.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
I agree with skyhiranger my uneducated guess is the idiot engineers did not allow the superchargers power supply to run the heaters in the battery to allow it warm up before charging. Instead they rely on the battery packs power to do this. Not enough remain power in pack to heat them up no charging. Then you toss the idiot people who choose to live in Chicago and bingo the perfect storm of not being able to charge your Tesla.

Option 2 not big enough heaters in the pack to deal with the sub zero cold.
Click to expand...
Here is the article I read the other day that gave a little more info on preconditioning the battery.


Not all batteries like subzero temperatures
This week's frigid winter conditions in North America exposed the shortcomings of certain electric vehicles, particularly Teslas.…

In the Oak Brook suburb of Chicago, Illinois, where temperatures have routinely dipped way below freezing, local media reported public charging stations turning into "car graveyards" because motorists were unable to power their vehicles.

"Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent, and this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday," Tesla owner Tyler Beard told Fox 32.

He wasn't alone. Dozens of cars were reportedly lined up and abandoned at the Tesla supercharging station in Oak Brook along with multiple charging stations around Chicago.

"This is crazy. It's a disaster. Seriously," said another Tesla driver, Chalis Mizelle, who had to ditch her ride and get picked up by a friend because the car wouldn't charge.

"We got a bunch of dead robots out here," quipped another, while Kevin Sumrak landed at Chicago O'Hare International Airport on Sunday night to find his Tesla unresponsive. He had to hire a tow truck and drove around looking for a charging station that worked in the freezing cold.

"I want Elon Musk to do something about this, it'd probably help us out," said another hopelessly optimistic Tesla owner.

However, Mark Bilek of the Chicago Auto Trade Association said that drivers were missing a trick. "Like any new technology, there's a learning curve for people," he told Fox 32. "It's not plug and go. You have to precondition the battery, meaning that you have to get the battery up to the optimal temperature to accept a fast charge."

But it's really not that simple. Preconditioning also drains the battery. Even looking at Tesla's own "Cold Weather Best Practices" is like playing 4D chess if you need to take a trip in the dead of winter.

"Tesla recommends activating climate settings at least 30-45 minutes before departure," it reads. "Preconditioning times depend on outside temperature and other factors. The mobile app will notify you once your vehicle has reached the desired preconditioning temperature."

"Tesla recommends using Trip Planner to navigate to a charging location for at least 30-45 minutes before arrival to ensure optimal Battery temperature and charging conditions," the document continues. "If the drive to the charging location is less than 30-45 minutes, consider preconditioning the Battery before driving."

In Canada, Mark Bohaichuk made a widely read observation on hellsite X after meeting a Tesla driver stranded in -45°C (-49°F):

So why is this happening? The problem is that battery basics simply do not work well in freezing conditions. Ions inside EV batteries travel between the positive and negative electrodes through a liquid electrolyte. As it gets colder, that liquid, at least in most lithium-ion batteries, thickens, meaning the ions move more slowly. The slower the ions move, the greater the resistance. The greater the resistance, the faster an electric vehicle loses power.

The solution is to keep the battery warm, but the heat comes from the battery itself, so these stricken Tesla drivers are draining the battery just to be able to charge the battery, and we don't need to explain why that might be inefficient.

Scientists are working to tackle the issue. South 8 Technologies, for instance, propose a "Liquefied Gas Electrolyte" that "liquefies under pressure, enabling several safety and performance benefits," including a wider operational temperature range of -60°C to 60°C. Meanwhile, Korean company LG Chem is developing new electrode chemistry and architectures with a view to improve charging times and temperature performance. Tesla is also trying to develop battery technology, though its next-gen 4680 cells are proving difficult to mass produce.

Tales like these remind us that it's still early days for EV battery tech. It may take years for the necessary improvements to come online but until then, the answer is simply not to drive during a deep freeze.
 
ManKrawler said:
Our rivian charges fine so far and is the BEST vehicle I have ever driven in the snow.

:flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:
Click to expand...
ha-gayyyyy.jpg
 
Do you think it's safe to say we may not be quite ready for a EV world................:lmao::lmao::lmao:


These people pushing for the elimination of fossil fuels and think we're ready for this are either completely delusional, stupid (which I doubt), or evil.


.
 
Too bad we don't carry around a little device that gives a warning about cold weather coming.:lmao:

Anti-gelled all the diesels. The few I started in the -4 weather busted right off.:dustin:
 
Archer said:
Do you think it's safe to say we may not be quite ready for a EV world................:lmao::lmao::lmao:


These people pushing for the elimination of fossil fuels and think we're ready for this are either completely delusional, stupid (which I doubt), or evil.


.
Click to expand...
It is all about control and power. None of these people are going to give up their fossil fuel private jets, or vehicles. Just like all the people pushing for gun control aren't going to give up their private security, which will be armed with guns, of course.
They just want everyone else to give it all up for the sake of the environment and children. Two faced hypocrites, all of them.
 
welndmn said:
So more lazy "Journalism", why not talk about the problem? Does anyone know?
Yes, the battery needs to be warm in order to take a fast/super charge, but there are heaters in the packs, are those not sufficient? Do those "fast/super" chargers only charge at high rate so if the car does not have enough power to warm the batteries it will never start the charge? Seems like they would all be able to charge at lower rate and be fine, just going to take longer.
Click to expand...
Being someone that just killed a battery in an ICE because the temp got to around -30F I get it when it comes to the more N environs and hassles when a real storm comes meandering down from further N causing hassles with batteries. Batteries don't charge right when super cold its their nature regardless of what type. An interesting topic for an Engineering thermal class or one in physical Chemistry determining the rates of reaction in a battery in abnormally cold conditions.

From the sounds of it, the heaters are sized to yield a minimum temp necessary to charge properly, probably around 10-20F but can deal with 0F briefly. So if the outside temperature gets to sub zero...all bets are off, the heater can't keep up the required minimum charging temp. Basically a mechanical design glitch that an aftermarket vendor type could profit from by peddling the EV equivalent of an ICE block heater.
 
DVanVorous said:
Being someone that just killed a battery in an ICE because the temp got to around -30F I get it when it comes to the more N environs and hassles when a real storm comes meandering down from further N causing hassles with batteries. Batteries don't charge right when super cold its their nature regardless of what type. An interesting topic for an Engineering thermal class or one in physical Chemistry determining the rates of reaction in a battery in abnormally cold conditions.

From the sounds of it, the heaters are sized to yield a minimum temp necessary to charge properly, probably around 10-20F but can deal with 0F briefly. So if the outside temperature gets to sub zero...all bets are off, the heater can't keep up the required minimum charging temp. Basically a mechanical design glitch that an aftermarket vendor type could profit from by peddling the EV equivalent of an ICE block heater.
Click to expand...

if im going to do any calcs, ill need the temperature in Rankine. Thanks and God Bless.




:flipoff2:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh