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Threaded Stud Welders

Lee

Lee

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Not sure that's the correct term but that's the layman version of what they do. Like a stud welder for auto body but instead of a stud to for a slide hammer, you have a threaded stud for fastening things to.

Amazon isn't any help, it's all auto body stuff. Google showed me some silly expensive stuff. Also took me down the Capacitor Discharge Welder rabbit hole. There's guns on Aliexpress that look the part for cheap enough to experiment with, I guess I could stick one on my MIG welder and practice my trigger discipline.

I swear I've seen Youtubers sticking threaded studs on things with what look like the fat Harbor Freight stud welder. Are there threaded arbors for those, Mandela Effect, is my Googlefu really that off?
 

this harbor freight stud welder?

1724875651385.png
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:

this harbor freight stud welder?
Click to expand...

That's just for pin studs for pulling dents. I'm trying to find one that will do threaded studs, like 8-32 or 1/4-20 studs, and not cost $2K+ May have dreamed it but I thought I had seen stud welders like that HF stud gun welding threaded studs to things. I assumed there were threaded arbors/chucks to use those auto body stud welders on threaded studs, but I have not found such a thing yet.

Much less budget friendly version of the goal:

 
www.ebay.com

Stud Welding Torch, Stud Welding Gun with 4m Cable Stud Gun Welder | eBay

Standard Length 4M. 1 X Stud Welding Torch. The LZHQ stud welding gun is use on Energy storage / capacitor. Welding Range 2-10MM. Weldable Materials Carbon Steel, Stainless Steel, Aluminum and Brass, Copper, Chromium zirconium copper.
www.ebay.com

this one looks like the ones that I have used in the past that spot a threaded stud.

FYI those things are expensive
 
What are you using the studs for?

I needed to add a ton of short 1/4-20 studs in the Jeep for wiring and plumbing.

I ended up using these things and hit them with the mig. Got them from McMaster.

DSC00931.JPG
DSC00933.JPG



Compared to the factory studs that I had removed 99% of.

DSC00936.JPG


DSC00930.JPG
 
gt1guy I'm aware of those, I was looking at those and their other options earlier today, and I've made plenty of DIY weld on studs from bolts over the years. I've still got a little box of 5/8 weld nuts from McMaster for fixing XJ rear shock mounts. Ideally I'd like to not have to drill a hole and not have anything poking through the metal the stud is welded to.

I had decided rivet studs or press fit studs are about my best choice, but was hoping one of you could point me in a different direction.
 
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Lee said:
Would maybe be worth slapping one on a $120, 200A Yesswelder, and sticking a time delay relay on the trigger?
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Worth a try as long as it's not my money. :laughing:

Could probably rig something up with a timer relay, a contactor and an old school stick welder. Hit the trigger and the welder turns on for a couple seconds. And you can use the old school stick welder to adjust the settings until you get it satisfactory.
 
Lee said:
gt1guy I'm aware of those, I was looking at those and their other options earlier today, and I've made plenty of DIY weld on studs from bolts over the years. I've still got a little box of 5/8 weld nuts from McMaster for fixing XJ rear shock mounts. Ideally I'd like to not have to drill a hole and not have anything poking through the metal the stud is welded to.

I had decided rivet studs or press fit studs are about my best choice, but was hoping one of you could point me in a different direction.
Click to expand...

Rivnuts are fine for a lot of things, esp if we're talking 1/4-20 sized. Usually means the threads are hidden too when whatever is installed and so less rust/corrosion/gunk/thingtogethungupon.
 
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SomeGuy said:
Rivnuts are fine for a lot of things, esp if we're talking 1/4-20 sized. Usually means the threads are hidden too when whatever is installed and so less rust/corrosion/gunk/thingtogethungupon.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I need studs not nuts. With a rivet stud, you've got the squished part of the rivet poking through a hole on the back side of the stud.

I'll probably wind up countersinking some press fit studs flush with the surface, hit them with the metal hot glue gun and flapper wheel. That's A LOT more steps than just zapping a stud to the surface.

Been watching and reading about DIY Capacitor Discharge Welders, 98% of the stuff out there is for spot welding nickle strips on lithium battery packs. How hard could it be to scale up to a 1/4" stud to 3/16 plate? :shocked:
 
We use a Nelson arud welder at work for shooting 1/4, 3/8 and I think 1/2 studs for various projects. Can be frustrating to setup at times and really need to have a clean surface and know what your doing to get a proper weld for the stud.
 
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Are the parts something you can toss on a drill press or mill table? You might be able to friction weld.
 
Colin Furze has a stud welder with threaded studs that he uses frequently on his projects:


That tool would be really useful, but I haven't been able to find a cost effective option. It looks like it's about $2K~$3K.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Are the parts something you can toss on a drill press or mill table? You might be able to friction weld.
Click to expand...

Plausibly

PAToyota said:
Colin Furze has a stud welder with threaded studs that he uses frequently on his projects:


That tool would be really useful, but I haven't been able to find a cost effective option. It looks like it's about $2K~$3K.
Click to expand...


i think he's the who I first saw using them years ago. I saw someone in the past couple weeks-month sticking several studs to a plate and then beating them with a hammer to test how well they stuck. I'm pretty confident I imagined him using the HF dent puller style welder now, though.




Duc inadvertently led me to learn that there are at least 2 styles of stud welders, Capacitor Discharge is what I've been focused on. There's also Drawn Arc, which you could use a typical welder/power supply for. Drawn arc is more involved and needs a ferrule that kind of act like flux and directs off gas for different orientations of weld. Drawn arc is what almost all larger studs are, ~3/8-1/2" +. All of them are silly expensive, but those big drawn arc stud welder prices will make your eyes water.

Smaller studs seem to be mostly CD. They're expensive too, but I can't wrap my head around why? Specs for a random stud manufacturer's 1/4" mild steel, copper washed, stud is 415 Amps in 0.25 seconds. I'm not the best mather, but I can plug numbers into an online calculator. I'm fuzzy on discharge times and "duty cycle," not sure of the correct phrase, that a big electrolytic capacitor can be safely discharged, but just raw numbers, 3x 470,000µF 25V caps and a 24V DC power supply, should be able to stick that 1/4" stud. There's additional safeties, adjustability, an enclosure, etc. but I can't wrap my head around how all of that with a $20 power supply, ~$135 worth of capacitors, and a ~$90 Thyristor get you to the $3K+ some of these companies are charging for portable CD stud welders.
 
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Lee said:
They're expensive too, but I can't wrap my head around why? Specs for a random stud manufacturer's 1/4" mild steel, copper washed, stud is 415 Amps in 0.25 seconds. I'm not the best mather, but I can plug numbers into an online calculator. I'm fuzzy on discharge times and "duty cycle," not sure of the correct phrase, that a big electrolytic capacitor can be safely discharged, but just raw numbers, 3x 470,000µF 25V caps and a 24V DC power supply, should be able to stick that 1/4" stud. There's additional safeties, adjustability, an enclosure, etc. but I can't wrap my head around how all of that with a $20 power supply, ~$135 worth of capacitors, and a ~$90 Thyristor get you to the $3K+ some of these companies are charging for portable CD stud welders.
Click to expand...

They're expensive because until recently they were only made by first world companies catering to customers who could afford silly prices and the Chinese factories haven't been competing amongst themselves long enough for the price to reach down to where it normally would be for an item built from those components.

Look at mag drills 7yr ago. Same story. Now Vevor has $300 ones and there's a million other brands importing them. It's just a waiting game.
 
arse_sidewards said:
They're expensive because until recently they were only made by first world companies catering to customers who could afford silly prices and the Chinese factories haven't been competing amongst themselves long enough for the price to reach down to where it normally would be for an item built from those components.

Look at mag drills 7yr ago. Same story. Now Vevor has $300 ones and there's a million other brands importing them. It's just a waiting game.
Click to expand...

Prefect example. Retails for over $3K, literally looks like something I'd cobble together from a HF Apache case, and a bunch of Amazon and eBay components.
studwelderaccessories.com

Midwest Fasteners SureShotII CD Stud Welder

A portable light weight pin welder with shoulder strap capable of welding pins up to 10 gauge and studs up to 5/16". Made in the USA. In Stock.
studwelderaccessories.com studwelderaccessories.com

It's all hand wired components, not a custom PCB. Toroid coil transformer power supply, Thyristor, big bleed off resistor, a handful of relays, they're using a single 100,000 µF coil at a higher voltage than my 24V brain storming earlier, that's probably an 80V or larger cap.
s-l1600.jpg


Edit: They do have what appears to be a bespoke PCB for their control/setting/status interface on the lid.

s-l1600-2.jpg



I'm really tempted to order an AliExpress CD gun, and see if I can DIY electrocute myself.
 
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I have thought about this a bit after a local sheet metal shop turned me on to them.

You could get the replacement collets for a legit stud welder and retrofit them onto the HF dent puller welder. I bet you could get pretty good at timing it just right.
 
I don't know that I'll ever get the gumption to do it, but this idea has lived rent free in my head for a week now.

I think I've got a handle on enough components to be a dirty proof of concept. Once you start getting up in voltage the joules available from the cap gets much more favorable for CD welding. A lot of options for power supplies, just how fast do you want to and/or can you safely charge the cap you're using, huge range in pricing. I found a 0-60V adjustable 20 amp switching PSU on fleabay, that I "think" would do enough for a home DIY zapper.

Throwing something together that's basically manual wouldn't be too tough physical component wise. However, ideally you'd want variability and plenty of safeties, some kind of variable voltage sensing circuit with SSRs for charging and bleeding the cap, and probably a NC contractor to a resistor to stop self healing and ghost voltage from the cap when off.

I've been down all kinds of op-amp, voltage comparator, voltage divider, circuit rabbit holes. I think what I've pretty well determined is I need to get an Arduino kit and start learning how to program it. My "programing" experience is pretty well limited to SAS, html, and G-code, I don't know anything about C plus, minus, or division. :laughing:
 
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Lee said:
Yeah, but I need studs not nuts. With a rivet stud, you've got the squished part of the rivet poking through a hole on the back side of the stud.

I'll probably wind up countersinking some press fit studs flush with the surface, hit them with the metal hot glue gun and flapper wheel. That's A LOT more steps than just zapping a stud to the surface.

Been watching and reading about DIY Capacitor Discharge Welders, 98% of the stuff out there is for spot welding nickle strips on lithium battery packs. How hard could it be to scale up to a 1/4" stud to 3/16 plate? :shocked:
Click to expand...
Rivnut + all thread + zap with the mig?
 
Brad said:
Rivnut + all thread + zap with the mig?
Click to expand...

I'd probably skip the rivnut. Drill hole pretty true to size for the all thread. Just use a nut on the all thread to give you a little recess on the end you're welding a little below the surface, for a nice little weld pool. Flap wheel smooth.


That's WAY too easy though. I'm trying to find convoluted, Rube Goldberg type solution, to create a solution to a mostly nonexistent problem here. :flipoff2:
 
Could you use a tig welder with a foot pedal? Stick the stud in the stinger and hit the peddle? If it works add a timer.
 
cj3a said:
Could you use a tig welder with a foot pedal? Stick the stud in the stinger and hit the peddle? If it works add a timer.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's rudimentary how I think a drawn arc stud gun works. I've only learned about them recently and only know what I've read. I picture it kind of like scratch start Tig, but you're precisely controlling arc length and dwell with the gun, machine and contactor(s) is controlling volts/amps/duration. For some reason they need a sacrificial ferrule to protect (flux) for the arc.

2.-Drawn-arc-stud-welding-process-BBI-1-scaled.jpg
 
I used to run one...Guy I worked for had a contract installing bumper rubbers on the back of Semi trailers. We had a box van with a genset powered by a deutz diesel. I don't remember the brand, but we were using 1/2-13 studs.

Here is one such outfit that makes the equipment: Stud Welding Products - Stud Welding Products
 
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