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tax stamps and shit

87manche

87manche

kinder and gentler
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
688
Messages
2,452
Loc
lake erie
so, I inherited a suomi KP31, one of the TNW built deals.
The barrel extension bothers the fuck out of me, so it's SBR time.

I just form 1 it and put on an original length barrel/shroud?

follow up question. I've always wanted a can for something, and now I'll have another shroud and barrel to cut up.
if I create a trust using the silencerco deal, can I do the SBR paperwork on that same trust?

barrels and shrouds are still dirt cheap, and I need this in my life.
It will go well with my M39.
 
following and welcome input on these 4

Gemtech GM9
Griffin Ararmament Resistance 9
SinencerCo Omega Needs a something for the host?
Griffin Armament Rev9 Gen3
 
If you’re talking about the silencer shop single shot trusts, they are only for form 4 transfers, not form 1 suppressors or SBR’s. They used to offer a service for helping you file form 1 stuff but were told they had to stop.

I have a Dead Air Sandman S, Wolfman, and Mask all on single shot trusts and still in jail.

I set up a trust through National Gun Trusts and have my form 1 SBR paperwork filled out for a 5.56 AR and CZ Scorpion, but I still have to figure out a couple things to get it submitted.
 
On your F1, put a 3" barrel. You can ALWAYS go longer but not shorter.

I'm a Liberty Ho so the MysticX or even the Cosmic. Have you ever owned a suppressor ?
 
I'd remove the barrel extension and make it a 16.1" barrel but the suppressor is pinned and welded so it becomes the barrel too.
 
NFA shit is just... too much for me to justify
sending in fingerprints, asking them permission, and paying them for the privilege to boot

way easier to just let it sit in the corner as a heavy oddball semiauto range toy and get something you can slap a brace on for your "short" gun, them little tiny delayed blowback stribog things were looking pretty neat a couple years ago. iirc they were 9x19 in about the form factor of a VZ61
I could see justifying a stamp on a suppressor a little easier than a couple inches of barrel sticking out. Still hurts me in some way... Paying a sin tax on a right.
 
Stribog is garbage. The magazines suck so bad that they had to make a lower for it that accepts CZ scorpion mags so you can actually shoot it.
 
Gatorgrizz27 said:
If you’re talking about the silencer shop single shot trusts, they are only for form 4 transfers, not form 1 suppressors or SBR’s. They used to offer a service for helping you file form 1 stuff but were told they had to stop.

I have a Dead Air Sandman S, Wolfman, and Mask all on single shot trusts and still in jail.

I set up a trust through National Gun Trusts and have my form 1 SBR paperwork filled out for a 5.56 AR and CZ Scorpion, but I still have to figure out a couple things to get it submitted.
Click to expand...
https://www.silencershop.com/catalog/product/view/id/251/s/nfa-gun-trust/category/5/

they have a full gun trust option. says I can add multiple trustees and other nfa things.
I'll investigate that place you used too. I'm not particular as to how I get it setup, I just know that's what I want to do so multiple people can legally transport/possess right?

D_JEEPER said:
I'd remove the barrel extension and make it a 16.1" barrel but the suppressor is pinned and welded so it becomes the barrel too.
Click to expand...

nope, we're going full original finnish configuration.
the barrels on a KP31 are easily removable, so we just swaps them.
 
[486 said:
;n332344]NFA shit is just... too much for me to justify
sending in fingerprints, asking them permission, and paying them for the privilege to boot

way easier to just let it sit in the corner as a heavy oddball semiauto range toy and get something you can slap a brace on for your "short" gun, them little tiny delayed blowback stribog things were looking pretty neat a couple years ago. iirc they were 9x19 in about the form factor of a VZ61
I could see justifying a stamp on a suppressor a little easier than a couple inches of barrel sticking out. Still hurts me in some way... Paying a sin tax on a right.
Click to expand...

while I agree this may not be the best firearm to pay for a stamp to SBR, it's what I want to do, so fuck it.
 
rockmup said:
On your F1, put a 3" barrel. You can ALWAYS go longer but not shorter.

I'm a Liberty Ho so the MysticX or even the Cosmic. Have you ever owned a suppressor ?
Click to expand...

no.
which is why I came here cause I knew some people had lots of experience.

I have a feeling this becomes expensive in the future. Like that first hit of heroin the dealer gives you.
 
87manche said:
no.
which is why I came here cause I knew some people had lots of experience.

I have a feeling this becomes expensive in the future. Like that first hit of heroin the dealer gives you.
Click to expand...

Exactly like that. Sadly we have to pay to play but once you wrap your mind around that and move on its a hell of a lot of fun.

Why a Trust ? Do you actually know people that you'd loan your stuff to ? That could/would afford to replace them ? Except for that ability I don't see an upside for a Trust, just more cost up front.
 
rockmup said:
Exactly like that. Sadly we have to pay to play but once you wrap your mind around that and move on its a hell of a lot of fun.

Why a Trust ? Do you actually know people that you'd loan your stuff to ? That could/would afford to replace them ? Except for that ability I don't see an upside for a Trust, just more cost up front.
Click to expand...

Wasn't a trust just a way to bypass the CLEO signature requirement? I haven't "bought" a stamp in quite a while but hasn't the CLEO signature requirement been nullified (CLEO only gets a copy of the form, 1 or 4 now, but no signature is required)? In this case a simple Form 1 would be much more convenient than a trust, as you have said. Or I could be all wrong....
 
FrankenToy said:
Wasn't a trust just a way to bypass the CLEO signature requirement? I haven't "bought" a stamp in quite a while but hasn't the CLEO signature requirement been nullified (CLEO only gets a copy of the form, 1 or 4 now, but no signature is required)? In this case a simple Form 1 would be much more convenient than a trust, as you have said. Or I could be all wrong....
Click to expand...

Thats exactly how it used to be, now there is no CLEO requirement. Now every person on a Trust has to submit prints and pics.


I was talking with someone working with the BATFE/NFA /The American Suppressor Association and he says they are planning on changing the way they do it yet again. They are going to keep prints and pics on file for 2 yrs, which would be great. They are also going to open up E-File completely (again, lol) and give it a go.
 
Can't help on the silencer end, but I just did my first efile form 1 for a SBS, it was stupid easy and was 3-4 weeks turnaround. Just figure out the length for the configuration you want and do it. You can amend it later if you want shorter but it sounds like you know what you want.

I've been meaning to do another round of fingerprints one night (I bought the home kit because the PD is retarded) and SBR one of my Uzis, for the same reason you want to SBR your Suomi
 
Love Liberty, just got my OG Mystic back, now it's a Infinity X. 6 or 7oz total weight now. Can shoot 300 win mag down to .22 all through one can.

WARNING when paired with 9mm subsonics in a sub gun/PCC it will empty your wallet so fast it will make your head spin. Your only compensation will be a huge shit eating grin and the envy of anyone nearby. EVERYONE will want to shoot it, further emptying your walling and spreading shit eating grins.

If I could pick 3 cans only it would be a Mystic X or Infinity X and 2 quality .22 cans.
 
rockmup said:
Exactly like that. Sadly we have to pay to play but once you wrap your mind around that and move on its a hell of a lot of fun.

Why a Trust ? Do you actually know people that you'd loan your stuff to ? That could/would afford to replace them ? Except for that ability I don't see an upside for a Trust, just more cost up front.
Click to expand...

just family.
i'd put my nephews and niece on it as soon as they were 18. I got no kids.

but to start with I'd put my wife and my brother on it.
For the $100 it's gonna cost me, it just seems like what I should do right from the start yeah?

my law enforcement is friendly, so I don't think getting prints and such is going to be an issue.

That national gun trust deal is $60 for the boilerplate forms.
 
87manche said:
just family.
i'd put my nephews and niece on it as soon as they were 18. I got no kids.

but to start with I'd put my wife and my brother on it.
For the $100 it's gonna cost me, it just seems like what I should do right from the start yeah?

my law enforcement is friendly, so I don't think getting prints and such is going to be an issue.

That national gun trust deal is $60 for the boilerplate forms.
Click to expand...



So unless those people are going to take your gear shooting without you, there is no need for a trust. Local LE don't have any say in the matter any more, at all.
Prints and pics can be done at home. My State police will do as many prints as I want for 10.00 so I get 10 sets every time I go, takes 20 min.

The thing is, you'll think you only need one can and will be happy to swap it around. You wont after the first couple of times, this is when it gets expensive and sub guns as mentioned above. lol
 
rockmup said:
So unless those people are going to take your gear shooting without you, there is no need for a trust. Local LE don't have any say in the matter any more, at all.
Prints and pics can be done at home. My State police will do as many prints as I want for 10.00 so I get 10 sets every time I go, takes 20 min.

The thing is, you'll think you only need one can and will be happy to swap it around. You wont after the first couple of times, this is when it gets expensive and sub guns as mentioned above. lol
Click to expand...

what about if I die?
do my beneficiaries then have to pay for the transfers?

that was the main reason I saw for it.

cause you and I both know this is going to eventually get out of hand and I'll have more than one. if something were to happen to me I'd hate for all that shit to be tied up in ATF land.

I mean, once i have a can, I'm gonna have to build a SBR AR in 9mm or 300.
have to.
 
87manche said:
what about if I die?
do my beneficiaries then have to pay for the transfers?

that was the main reason I saw for it.

cause you and I both know this is going to eventually get out of hand and I'll have more than one. if something were to happen to me I'd hate for all that shit to be tied up in ATF land.

I mean, once i have a can, I'm gonna have to build a SBR AR in 9mm or 300.
have to.
Click to expand...


They can go to your heir tax free, they file a ATF 5320.5 Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration
 
rockmup said:
They can go to your heir tax free, they file a ATF 5320.5 Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration
Click to expand...

well then perhaps it's not so important that I setup a trust then.

aside from the initial cost, are there any other significant downsides to doing a trust?
does it make approval things slower/ more unlikely?
can I still efile something with a trust?

thanks for helping the noob.
 
87manche said:
well then perhaps it's not so important that I setup a trust then.

aside from the initial cost, are there any other significant downsides to doing a trust?
does it make approval things slower/ more unlikely?
can I still efile something with a trust?

thanks for helping the noob.
Click to expand...


No worries.

Trust makes zero difference in approval time, yes you can E-File with one.

I don't have a trust by the time there was a benefit to them I had too many, now its swung back around and there isn't a real benefit to them for most people.
 
so really the only benefit currently is multiple people can share things.

I wonder if it might be worth the hassle to future proof myself against any dumb shit the ATF wants to do.

but then you never know what the ATF will do, so a trust might be a PITA in the future.

fuck, why can't they just give us the rules and stick with them.

to be determined I guess.

I'm currently gathering up all my 7.62x39 shit and I'm going to sell in the panic market to fund all of this.
haven't shot any of it in years.
 
So I did some digging around and yes, Nick @ ECHO machine is still doing his thing. There is a thread on ECHO @ NFATALK.org and he's a member there too.
You might reach out to him and see what his cost is for what you're after, you might be shocked or excited, who knows. lol
 
rockmup said:
So I did some digging around and yes, Nick @ ECHO machine is still doing his thing. There is a thread on ECHO @ NFATALK.org and he's a member there too.
You might reach out to him and see what his cost is for what you're after, you might be shocked or excited, who knows. lol
Click to expand...

I emailed him last night.
;)

his prices are reasonable and everyone seems to be happy with the work. I just need to figure out exactly what can I want to buy so I can get the shroud cut down and tell him where I want the barrel cut.

of course I have to wait for the SBR paperwork before I send it off. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do so I can start that process next week on the whole tax stamp deal.
right now I think I'll just do it as an individual.

what's the average wait time on the efile jam these days that you've seen?

I guess I need to sign up on the nfatalk, probably all my questions answered in a damn faq there.
 
If you're going to do that why not make it a single stamp integral ? You're not going to be swapping the suppressor to another host after the firs few times. Voice of experience right there !
 
87manche said:
I emailed him last night.
;)

his prices are reasonable and everyone seems to be happy with the work. I just need to figure out exactly what can I want to buy so I can get the shroud cut down and tell him where I want the barrel cut.

of course I have to wait for the SBR paperwork before I send it off. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do so I can start that process next week on the whole tax stamp deal.
right now I think I'll just do it as an individual.

what's the average wait time on the efile jam these days that you've seen?

I guess I need to sign up on the nfatalk, probably all my questions answered in a damn faq there.
Click to expand...

Scroll up :flipoff2: mine was 3-4 weeks in December.

Just google it, a couple of google results walked me through everything completely, and I is dumb.

The fingerprint card needs to be filled out a very certain way, my local PD had no idea and honestly neither did I. I wound up buying some fingerprint cards off the net with the ink and everything, just did it myself. Once I got a grip on the nervous shake it wasn't bad :laughing:
 
rockmup said:
If you're going to do that why not make it a single stamp integral ? You're not going to be swapping the suppressor to another host after the firs few times. Voice of experience right there !
Click to expand...

because I still want to be able to swap to an original length suomi barrel and shroud.

which was really the only goal, but then I was like "You'll have this extra barrel and shroud after......"

and this is how you collect stamps I suppose.
 
the plan is to SBR it, buy a parts kit barrel and shroud, put it all together and make sure it's not gonna blow up with headspace issues, then send the already hacked up TNW barrel to ecco and have him cut that and the shroud down for quiet boi use.

ideally it's cut short enough that factory 147s stay subsonic, which is probably gonna be about 6-7"(?), which puts OAL with an 8 inch can right back to how long it ought to be. That's also going to depend on how I decide to hack up this shroud so that it doesn't look like complete ass.
i'd love to find the swedish 37 shroud since they did basically pistol length, but it appears all that shit dried up years ago.
so here we be, hacking and welding.
 
You can still do that if the assembly is 16.1 ", pin the can to a short barrel and swap barrels if you want to, 147's are sub out of most every length
 
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