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Tap and die sets

71PA_Highboy

An Unknown but Engorged Member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
442
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171
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Near the Triad, Lookin' at the freeway
So normally I use my main T&D set, then add on the oddball tap / die I need, but recently I have been doing more metric work and my metric set is an el cheapo vato zone set that is ALMOST useless as the tolerances SUCK!

I can run a new bolt thru the die and end up with garbage threads that won't fit anything. Taps are the same... run them thru a good but rusty hole and a new bolt still binds....

Sooo... Who is selling a QUALITY T&D set with doesn't charge truck prices or is all chinesium and will cause more headaches than it is worth?

Price matters, quality matters... I want to find the right place in the middle...

my story: I used to be a pro mechanic, swapped over to IT about 25 years ago and still have a shit ton of snappy/matco/mac but no longer feel the need to pay their prices.
 
I dunno what you're doing wrong. My bottom dollar garbage chinese tap and die sets cut just fine in anything softer than about grade 8.
 
I just buy T&D's when ever I need a metric size or a specific thread class T or D from Mc Master Carr or MSC.
 
PAE said:
I just buy T&D's when ever I need a metric size or a specific thread class T or D from Mc Master Carr or MSC.
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I'd say this. There are probably only a half dozen metric sizes and pitches that you use most in automotive applications. Pick up good, US made versions of those and keep the trash set for the random odd sizes you only need once in a while.
 
bgaidan said:
I'd say this. There are probably only a half dozen metric sizes and pitches that you use most in automotive applications. Pick up good, US made versions of those and keep the trash set for the random odd sizes you only need once in a while.
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Having a full set on hand for when something is fucked and you're trying to un-fuck it with the minimal amount of material loss is pretty useful IMO. My bigger metric taps also get a fair bit of use tapping shit for plugs as well. Sure it's not necessary but it's nice to have the set.
 
All the tap and die sets suck. I just by lots of them from machine shop auctions. A decent tap is glorious to use. It almost turns itself into the steel.
 
71PA_Highboy said:
So normally I use my main T&D set, then add on the oddball tap / die I need, but recently I have been doing more metric work and my metric set is an el cheapo vato zone set that is ALMOST useless as the tolerances SUCK!

I can run a new bolt thru the die and end up with garbage threads that won't fit anything. Taps are the same... run them thru a good but rusty hole and a new bolt still binds....

Sooo... Who is selling a QUALITY T&D set with doesn't charge truck prices or is all chinesium and will cause more headaches than it is worth?

Price matters, quality matters... I want to find the right place in the middle...

my story: I used to be a pro mechanic, swapped over to IT about 25 years ago and still have a shit ton of snappy/matco/mac but no longer feel the need to pay their prices.
Click to expand...
Are you tapping new stuff or cleaning threads?

Just asking because I used to use T&D to clean, and they always ended up cutting their own threads and fucking stuff.

Picked up a thread chaser set (less than $100 and made in USA) and I don't know how I ever got through life without it.
 
Cheap taps suck. They're not so cheap when you snap one off in a expensive part.

Buy quality hss taps individually as you go or in lots. If you need a set Hanson is okay but they're carbon steel.
 
We use Irwin sets at work for all out metric needs. In 5 years of use I've never had a problem with them.

I also have a high quality number drill bit set I use when I have to drill and tap new holes.
 
Carbon steel metric set, USA made?
www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com

German made High Speed Steel
www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
 
I know it wont be the popular answer
I have gotten the big Harbor Freight sets, if I break one I order a nice replacement for the set

That way I have a complete set, and the ones that I use often will be upgraded to nice taps
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
I have gotten the big Harbor Freight sets, if I break one I order a nice replacement for the set
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Those are what I have but I got them cheaper from random importers on eBay years before HF started selling them. The tap wrenches are shit. The die holder is meh. The taps are fine. I would buy them again.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Those are what I have but I got them cheaper from random importers on eBay years before HF started selling them. The tap wrenches are shit. The die holder is meh. The taps are fine. I would buy them again.
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I actually use them quite a bit, I have I think two that I have broke, one was a 1/4 tap and I had hundreds of holes, so I had it in a drill. We all knew it was getting broke, and it did

But I think I have had that set for at least 15 years now. I would do the same thing again if I had to do it over
 
SomeGuyFromOlympia said:
I actually use them quite a bit, I have I think two that I have broke, one was a 1/4 tap and I had hundreds of holes, so I had it in a drill. We all knew it was getting broke, and it did

But I think I have had that set for at least 15 years now. I would do the same thing again if I had to do it over
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I've only dulled the 1/2-13 but I had a project with a few dozen holes in hard steel and I knew it wasn't gonna like that. I should really get a replacement. :laughing:
 
I have an Irwin set at work std. and metric tiny though 1/2" and 12mm. It's an ok set and whenever one gets screwed up it gets replaced with whatever the fastenal rep brings us. I'd consider it a mid grade set. McMaster Carr has really decent stuff though they don't tell you the brand till it shows up. I'd just buy the common sizes to put in your current set. They also offer some 3 tap sets with taper, plug, and bottoming taps which come in handy.
 
TMog617A said:
Rather new here, I typically work/hobby on G-wagens and Unimogs and use this quite a bit:

Metric 45pc large Tap And Die Set Rethreading/Rethreader Tool M6 - M24 AT222 - - Amazon.com

Metric 45pc large Tap And Die Set Rethreading/Rethreader Tool M6 - M24 AT222 - - Amazon.com
www.amazon.com

I was surprised on the quality of the set when first start using it. I've not used every t/d yet but I'm happy with the ones i've used thus far.
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Yeah, that's the same white box Chinese set that every importer sells, HF, Neiko, Tekton, etc, all coming from the same factory.
 
I like my Irwin sets both metric and standard for important stuff I care about. I also like my junky HF set for stuff that isn't that important or gracious... The Irwins are what I would consider middle of the road or better.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Yeah, that's the same white box Chinese set that every importer sells, HF, Neiko, Tekton, etc, all coming from the same factory.
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Same factory maybe, but even then quality can vary widely depending on the resellers quality specs.

I worked in a plant that made cutting tools for cabinetry and we had three lines of product, A line sold to well known woodworking outlets, B line that was sold at cheap on line outfits (Grizzly)and C line that were useable rejects from the other two main line products. These went to places like HF.


Sometimes to fill orders B line sets would get A line mixed in and the same with C line with B line mixed in, but basically if you weren’t buying A line you were getting factory 2nds or actual rejects in the case of C line.

Issues could be as simple as chatter marks in the sharpened edge and lack of sufficient chip clearance to big issues like non spec heat treating.

Those “reseller” or “ multi brand” tap sets are the same gamble.


I’d hate to ruin a part or break off a tap in a piece of unobtainium trying to save a buck.
 
2020AT4 said:
Same factory maybe, but even then quality can vary widely depending on the resellers quality specs.

I worked in a plant that made cutting tools for cabinetry and we had three lines of product, A line sold to well known woodworking outlets, B line that was sold at cheap on line outfits (Grizzly)and C line that were useable rejects from the other two main line products. These went to places like HF.


Sometimes to fill orders B line sets would get A line mixed in and the same with C line with B line mixed in, but basically if you weren’t buying A line you were getting factory 2nds or actual rejects in the case of C line.

Issues could be as simple as chatter marks in the sharpened edge and lack of sufficient chip clearance to big issues like non spec heat treating.

Those “reseller” or “ multi brand” tap sets are the same gamble.


I’d hate to ruin a part or break off a tap in a piece of unobtainium trying to save a buck.
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Sure. But with the mystery brand importer sets you have no idea which one you're getting so it makes zero sense to pay more than bottom dollar for them.

Regardless of what you think about the sub-$100 sets from Nieko and HF they are at least presumably have a QC spec (even if that spec is "lol, we take anything) whereas 9/10 $150+ sets in the same box will be the exact same shit or worse but at a higher price tag for the purpose of parting fools who are too good for cheap stuff from their money.

2020AT4 said:
I’d hate to ruin a part or break off a tap in a piece of unobtainium trying to save a buck.
Click to expand...

It's not that hard to not break off taps, especially in the size ranges and materials we're working with here. It's not like we're running tiny taps into stainless.
 
I like keeping a set of 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" NPT taps and dies around. Occasionally I'll get a NPT fitting that only gets like 3 threads of engagement. Run a tap or die over the fittng/hole, and get more threads engaged. Also nice for cleaning out old threads. I can't throw away old brass hardware, I always clean them up and keep them.

I just get whatever brand Mcmaster sends, for HSS drills and taps/dies. It's usually Viking, Chicago Latrobe, or Widell.
 
dnsfailure said:
I like keeping a set of 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" NPT taps and dies around. Occasionally I'll get a NPT fitting that only gets like 3 threads of engagement. Run a tap or die over the fittng/hole, and get more threads engaged.
Click to expand...

There's a specific number of turns an NPT tap is supposed to go in for a given thread size. You should be able to Google up a chart. I'd be surprised (disappointed really) if the cheapskates overseas aren't short tapping shit to save on tooling.

Screen Shot 2021-10-05 at 12.28.44 PM.png
 
oh, nice! I always just try to get about 1/2 of the fitting's threads engaged. And for NPT plugs on intake manifolds, I like to have the plug flush, just a visual thing.
 
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